wrote in message ...

The following shows the effect on elevation pattern for a 1/2 wave
dipole antenna over ground at various heights for perfect, very good,
average, and extremely ground.

The important value to note is the elevation angle for the main lobe.

snip

Perfect V good Avg Ext poor
Height gain @ elev gain @ elev gain @ elev gain @ elev
0.10 8.6 90 6.3 90 4.4 90 3.1 90
0.15 8.4 90 7.1 90 5.8 90 4.3 90

I'm having trouble wading through the data, probably because of column
headings. Let's take the first line.

0.10 Would be the height
I get lost after that.
Is 8.6 the gain over perfect ground, 6.3 over good, etc.
What are the 90's?

Wayne
W5GIE/6

On Sat, 15 Nov 2014 21:38:10 -0000, wrote:

The following shows the effect on elevation pattern for a 1/2 wave
dipole antenna over ground at various heights for perfect, very good,
average, and extremely ground.

The important value to note is the elevation angle for the main lobe.

Generally for DX an elevation angle at or below 30 degrees is desirable
and for NVIS an angle above 60 degrees.

This might help:
http://802.11junk.com/jeffl/antennas/horizontal-dipole/

Animated GIF of the horizontal 1/2 wave dipole over a "moderate"
ground at various heights:
http://802.11junk.com/jeffl/antennas/horizontal-dipole/horiz-dipole.gif
There's a big problem with the GIF. I couldn't convince 4NEC2 to fix
the scale on the gain plot. So, it changes in the middle of the
annimation. The outer ring is +5dBi for 0.1 to 0.3 wavelengths
height, and +10dBi for the others. I'll try to fix that later.

NEC deck for 4NEC2:
http://802.11junk.com/jeffl/antennas/horizontal-dipole/Dipole.nec


--
Jeff Liebermann
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

Jerry Stuckle wrote:
On 11/16/2014 12:32 AM, wrote:
Jerry Stuckle wrote:
On 11/15/2014 9:17 PM, wrote:
Jerry Stuckle wrote:

snip

Very good. You can cut and paste. Too bad you can't understand what
you're cutting and pasting, especially how to apply it.

You should see someone about getting that stick pulled out that is
firmly shoved up your butt.

After you do that, you can comment on the repeatable data I posted.




ROFLMAO! At least my head isn't there - like yours is.

So where are your insightful comments on the data or is puerile drivel
all you've got?

snip puerile drivel



But I am not going to get into a technical argument with you.

You have no technical arguments.


--
Jim Pennino

Wayne wrote:


wrote in message ...

The following shows the effect on elevation pattern for a 1/2 wave
dipole antenna over ground at various heights for perfect, very good,
average, and extremely ground.

The important value to note is the elevation angle for the main lobe.

snip

Perfect V good Avg Ext poor
Height gain @ elev gain @ elev gain @ elev gain @ elev
0.10 8.6 90 6.3 90 4.4 90 3.1 90
0.15 8.4 90 7.1 90 5.8 90 4.3 90

I'm having trouble wading through the data, probably because of column
headings. Let's take the first line.

0.10 Would be the height
I get lost after that.
Is 8.6 the gain over perfect ground, 6.3 over good, etc.
What are the 90's?

Wayne
W5GIE/6

Height is the height in wavelengths.

gain is the gain of the main lobe.

@ elev is the elevation angle of the main lobe; 90 means straight up.

And there are three sets for perfect, very good, average, and extremely
poor ground.

It all lines up in ASCII; if the spacing is screwed up, you are likely
viewing it as HTML.



--
Jim Pennino

Izur Kockenhan wrote:
Jim Pennino wrote:

The broadside nulls are missing.


A dipol over perfect ground has no broadside nulls. A dipol in free space
has alongside nulls. Pls. check out with 4NEC2.

Have a nice weekend

Izur Kockenhan

Correct; the broadside pattern is flattened, not nulled, over perfect
ground which doesn't show too well in the 3-D plot.


--
Jim Pennino

Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Sat, 15 Nov 2014 21:38:10 -0000, wrote:

The following shows the effect on elevation pattern for a 1/2 wave
dipole antenna over ground at various heights for perfect, very good,
average, and extremely ground.

The important value to note is the elevation angle for the main lobe.

Generally for DX an elevation angle at or below 30 degrees is desirable
and for NVIS an angle above 60 degrees.

This might help:
http://802.11junk.com/jeffl/antennas/horizontal-dipole/

Animated GIF of the horizontal 1/2 wave dipole over a "moderate"
ground at various heights:
http://802.11junk.com/jeffl/antennas/horizontal-dipole/horiz-dipole.gif
There's a big problem with the GIF. I couldn't convince 4NEC2 to fix
the scale on the gain plot. So, it changes in the middle of the
annimation. The outer ring is +5dBi for 0.1 to 0.3 wavelengths
height, and +10dBi for the others. I'll try to fix that later.

NEC deck for 4NEC2:
http://802.11junk.com/jeffl/antennas/horizontal-dipole/Dipole.nec


Yeah, graphs are better than tables of data any day.

--
Jim Pennino

wrote in message ...

Wayne wrote:


wrote in message ...

The following shows the effect on elevation pattern for a 1/2 wave
dipole antenna over ground at various heights for perfect, very good,
average, and extremely ground.

The important value to note is the elevation angle for the main lobe.

snip

Perfect V good Avg Ext poor
Height gain @ elev gain @ elev gain @ elev gain @ elev
0.10 8.6 90 6.3 90 4.4 90 3.1 90
0.15 8.4 90 7.1 90 5.8 90 4.3 90

I'm having trouble wading through the data, probably because of column
headings. Let's take the first line.

0.10 Would be the height
I get lost after that.
Is 8.6 the gain over perfect ground, 6.3 over good, etc.
What are the 90's?

Wayne
W5GIE/6

# Height is the height in wavelengths.

# gain is the gain of the main lobe.

# @ elev is the elevation angle of the main lobe; 90 means straight up.

# And there are three sets for perfect, very good, average, and extremely
# poor ground.

# It all lines up in ASCII; if the spacing is screwed up, you are likely
# viewing it as HTML.

Not using HTML, but your explanation clears it up.
Thanks.

On Sat, 15 Nov 2014 21:38:10 -0000, wrote:

The following shows the effect on elevation pattern for a 1/2 wave
dipole antenna over ground at various heights for perfect, very good,
average, and extremely ground.

The important value to note is the elevation angle for the main lobe.

Generally for DX an elevation angle at or below 30 degrees is desirable
and for NVIS an angle above 60 degrees.

The elevation angles apply to any dipole type antenna, such as a G5RV,
OCF dipole, etc. but the absolute gain values will be quite different.

Also some types of dipoles have more lobes than the two of the 1/2
wave dipole; those lobes will still be elevated.

Perfect V good Avg Ext poor
Height gain @ elev gain @ elev gain @ elev gain @ elev
0.10 8.6 90 6.3 90 4.4 90 3.1 90
0.15 8.4 90 7.1 90 5.8 90 4.3 90
0.20 8.0 90 7.1 90 6.1 90 4.6 66
0.25 7.4 90 6.7 68 5.9 61 4.8 50
0.30 6.9 56 6.4 51 5.9 48 5.1 41
0.35 6.8 45 6.5 42 6.1 40 5.4 35
0.40 7.1 39 6.9 36 6.5 35 5.8 31
0.45 7.7 33 7.5 32 7.0 31 6.3 28
0.50 8.3 30 8.1 29 7.6 28 6.7 25
0.55 8.9 27 8.5 26 7.9 25 6.9 23
0.60 9.1 25 8.6 24 8.0 23 6.9 21
0.65 8.9 23 8.4 22 7.8 21 6.9 20
0.70 8.5 21 8.0 20 7.6 20 6.8 18
0.75 8.0 19 7.7 19 7.3 18 6.7 17
0.80 7.6 18 7.4 18 7.2 17 6.7 16
0.85 7.5 17 7.4 17 7.2 16 6.7 15
0.90 7.6 16 7.5 16 7.3 15 6.9 15
0.95 7.8 15 7.7 15 7.5 15 7.1 14


Special note:

Most people understand that the results of an antenna analysis program
reflect the material used to construct the antenna and the type of
ground, if any, used for the analysis, are an approximation, and are
not accurate to 27 decimal places.

Further, most people also understand that absent them being a part of
the model used for the analysis, objects in the near field of the antenna,
such as, but not limited to, 20 foot prision walls, blimp hangers,
skyscrapers, a deluge of biblical proportions, giant sequoia trees,
hovering 2 mile wide alien spacecraft, hords of locusts, large gold
deposits under the antenna, battles between Autobots and Decepticons,
beached aircraft carriers, and stadium domes may well effect the
actual antenna perfomance.

Your mileage may vary, void where prohibited.

Any spelling mistakes in this article are all entirly my fault. Any grammer
errors spotted in this article were put there because I could.


I have seen people talking about NVIS antennas for DX.

w.

On 11/16/2014 1:27 PM, wrote:
Jerry Stuckle wrote:
On 11/16/2014 12:32 AM, wrote:
Jerry Stuckle wrote:
On 11/15/2014 9:17 PM, wrote:
Jerry Stuckle wrote:

snip

Very good. You can cut and paste. Too bad you can't understand what
you're cutting and pasting, especially how to apply it.

You should see someone about getting that stick pulled out that is
firmly shoved up your butt.

After you do that, you can comment on the repeatable data I posted.




ROFLMAO! At least my head isn't there - like yours is.

So where are your insightful comments on the data or is puerile drivel
all you've got?

snip puerile drivel



But I am not going to get into a technical argument with you.

You have no technical arguments.



I do. But you don't understand anything more complicated than 2+2=4.

I know better than to try to have an intellectual discussion with an idiot.


--
==================
Remove the "x" from my email address
Jerry, AI0K

==================

On 2014-11-16 18:33:16 +0000, said:


It all lines up in ASCII; if the spacing is screwed up, you are likely
viewing it as HTML.


Or a proportional font in plain text. They should try a fixed width font.

--

Percy Picacity