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Do antennas radiate photons?
rickman wrote:
On 7/11/2015 11:33 AM, Wayne wrote: ´The antenna, like the eye, is a transformation device converting electromagnetic photons into circuit currents; but, unlike the eye, the antenna can also convert energy from a circuit into photons radiated into space. In simplest terms an antenna converts photons to currents or vice versa.¡ Antennas, Second Edition, 1988, by John D. Kraus. Page 19. What about it? Is there some reason why RF photons should not exist? No reason better than why a poltergeist should not exist. However, perhaps, a better question might be, "EXACTLY, what is a 'rf photon?'" And, begs the answer to, "What EXACTLY, is a poltergeist?" ....yanno'? |
Do antennas radiate photons?
Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Sun, 12 Jul 2015 19:54:44 -0700, Jeff Liebermann wrote: Oops. I goofed in typing in several places. The last part should be: (d) Energy_of_Photon = hf = 6.63*10^-34 * 2*10^9 J = 1.3*10^-24 J where h=6.63*10^-34 Js (Plank's constant) This is the energy of a 2.5 MHz photon. From (a), PV=5.5*10-^18 Js^-1 m^-2 Therefore, number of photons = (5.5*10^-18 / 1.3*^10^-24) = 4.2*10^6 m^-2 s^-1 Hmm... I have no idea where the "2.5 MHz" came from or the strange units for the "number of photons". Poltergeists? They share a simply amazing number of similarities to "rf photons" ... yanno'? |
Do antennas radiate photons?
"Jeff Liebermann" wrote in message ... One of my not so great ideas was to devise a contraption that would let me "see" RF. It certainly would make troubleshooting RF devices much easier. Essentially, it would be a human eye analog implimented with RF components. According to theory, if it works for light, it should also work for RF. At the time, I was working at about 1GHz. Light is about 400 THz. So, all I need is an eyeball that's 400,000 times larger than the human eye. I'll give myself a -1 for the idea. Hi As usual others had the same idea .Look here : https://youtu.be/DovunOxlY1k?t=81 |
Do antennas radiate photons?
On Fri, 21 Aug 2015 00:07:43 +0200, "bilou" wrote:
"Jeff Liebermann" wrote in message .. . One of my not so great ideas was to devise a contraption that would let me "see" RF. It certainly would make troubleshooting RF devices much easier. Essentially, it would be a human eye analog implimented with RF components. According to theory, if it works for light, it should also work for RF. At the time, I was working at about 1GHz. Light is about 400 THz. So, all I need is an eyeball that's 400,000 times larger than the human eye. I'll give myself a -1 for the idea. As usual others had the same idea .Look here : https://youtu.be/DovunOxlY1k?t=81 Nope. The AT&T wave demo is a mechanical analogy of wave phenomenon. That's not what I'm looking for. What I want is the ability to look at a radio, power amp, amplifier, etc and actually see the RF leaking from the circuit, or just standing there in the form of standing waves. Like light, I would not expect to see conducted RF, only radiated RF. However, I think there will be enough of both to make the effort worthwhile. Incidentally, if you're into surfing the waves, this should keep you entertained for days: http://www.falstad.com/mathphysics.html (Java required) (Note: Seems to work better when on controlled substances). -- Jeff Liebermann 150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558 |
Do antennas radiate photons?
"Wayne" wrote in message
... "The antenna, like the eye, is a transformation device converting electromagnetic photons into circuit currents; but, unlike the eye, the antenna can also convert energy from a circuit into photons radiated into space. In simplest terms an antenna converts photons to currents or vice versa." Antennas, Second Edition, 1988, by John D. Kraus. Page 19. IMHO, antennae do not radiate photons. and the misunderstanding arises from the photons that are generated from electrons shifting to lower energy orbits around atoms. In tha case of currents within antennae, the energy is the potential energy brought about by compressing electrons against each other, against their inherent mutual repulsion, and is a different mechanism than that which generates photons. |
Do antennas radiate photons?
gareth wrote:
"Wayne" wrote in message ... "The antenna, like the eye, is a transformation device converting electromagnetic photons into circuit currents; but, unlike the eye, the antenna can also convert energy from a circuit into photons radiated into space. In simplest terms an antenna converts photons to currents or vice versa." Antennas, Second Edition, 1988, by John D. Kraus. Page 19. IMHO, antennae do not radiate photons. and the misunderstanding arises from the photons that are generated from electrons shifting to lower energy orbits around atoms. In tha case of currents within antennae, the energy is the potential energy brought about by compressing electrons against each other, against their inherent mutual repulsion, and is a different mechanism than that which generates photons. You come a little late to this discussion. Perhaps you would like to explain, on the basis of your theory that there are two kinds of electromagnetic radiation based on the means of their generation, how you tell which kind of em radiation you are observing, the one which also exists as photons or the one that doesn't? Preferably show the answer mathematically. -- Roger Hayter |
Do antennas radiate photons?
"Roger Hayter" wrote in message
... You come a little late to this discussion. Perhaps you would like to explain, on the basis of your theory that there are two kinds of electromagnetic radiation based on the means of their generation, I do not have such a theory. Both are the same type whether generated continuously or photonically. |
Do antennas radiate photons?
"Roger Hayter" wrote in message
... gareth wrote: "Wayne" wrote in message ... "The antenna, like the eye, is a transformation device converting electromagnetic photons into circuit currents; but, unlike the eye, the antenna can also convert energy from a circuit into photons radiated into space. In simplest terms an antenna converts photons to currents or vice versa." Antennas, Second Edition, 1988, by John D. Kraus. Page 19. IMHO, antennae do not radiate photons. and the misunderstanding arises from the photons that are generated from electrons shifting to lower energy orbits around atoms. In tha case of currents within antennae, the energy is the potential energy brought about by compressing electrons against each other, against their inherent mutual repulsion, and is a different mechanism than that which generates photons. You come a little late to this discussion. Perhaps you would like to explain, on the basis of your theory that there are two kinds of electromagnetic radiation based on the means of their generation, how you tell which kind of em radiation you are observing, the one which also exists as photons or the one that doesn't? Preferably show the answer mathematically. Insofar as you make a mathematical challenge, perhaps you could deal with some simpler numerical queries ... How many complete cycles make up one of your RF photons? What is the formula for the amplitude envelope of your RF photon? As there is no maser mechanism in a dipole antenna, what is the mechanism that ensures that all of your RF photons are coherent? If the RF photons are not coherent, then why is no amplitude and phase distortion apparent on a single unmodulated carrier wave? |
Do antennas radiate photons?
gareth wrote:
"Roger Hayter" wrote in message ... gareth wrote: "Wayne" wrote in message ... "The antenna, like the eye, is a transformation device converting electromagnetic photons into circuit currents; but, unlike the eye, the antenna can also convert energy from a circuit into photons radiated into space. In simplest terms an antenna converts photons to currents or vice versa." Antennas, Second Edition, 1988, by John D. Kraus. Page 19. IMHO, antennae do not radiate photons. and the misunderstanding arises from the photons that are generated from electrons shifting to lower energy orbits around atoms. In tha case of currents within antennae, the energy is the potential energy brought about by compressing electrons against each other, against their inherent mutual repulsion, and is a different mechanism than that which generates photons. You come a little late to this discussion. Perhaps you would like to explain, on the basis of your theory that there are two kinds of electromagnetic radiation based on the means of their generation, how you tell which kind of em radiation you are observing, the one which also exists as photons or the one that doesn't? Preferably show the answer mathematically. Insofar as you make a mathematical challenge, perhaps you could deal with some simpler numerical queries ... How many complete cycles make up one of your RF photons? The question shows an utter lack of understanding wave-particle duality and makes as much sense as asking how many rib bones are in a gallon of ice cream. What is the formula for the amplitude envelope of your RF photon? The question shows an utter lack of understanding of the particle properties of electromagnetic radiation. A photon has only energy and asking about an amplitude envelope makes as much sense as asking how many rib bones are in a gallon of ice cream. As there is no maser mechanism in a dipole antenna, what is the mechanism that ensures that all of your RF photons are coherent? The question shows an utter lack of understanding of the funcition of an antenna. An antenna has nothing to do with the spectral qualities of the electromagnetic radiation and the question makes as much sense as asking how many rib bones are in a gallon of ice cream. If the RF photons are not coherent, then why is no amplitude and phase distortion apparent on a single unmodulated carrier wave? The question shows an utter lack of understanding of what "coherent" means. A single unmodulated carrier wave is coherent by definition. -- Jim Pennino |
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