“The antenna, like the eye, is a transformation device converting
electromagnetic
photons into circuit currents; but, unlike the eye, the antenna can also
convert energy
from a circuit into photons radiated into space. In simplest terms an
antenna converts
photons to currents or vice versa.� Antennas, Second Edition, 1988, by John
D. Kraus. Page 19.

On 7/11/2015 11:33 AM, Wayne wrote:
“The antenna, like the eye, is a transformation device converting
electromagnetic
photons into circuit currents; but, unlike the eye, the antenna can also
convert energy
from a circuit into photons radiated into space. In simplest terms an
antenna converts
photons to currents or vice versa.� Antennas, Second Edition, 1988, by John
D. Kraus. Page 19.

What about it? Is there some reason why RF photons should not exist?

--

Rick

rickman wrote:
On 7/11/2015 11:33 AM, Wayne wrote:
“The antenna, like the eye, is a transformation device converting
electromagnetic
photons into circuit currents; but, unlike the eye, the antenna can also
convert energy
from a circuit into photons radiated into space. In simplest terms an
antenna converts
photons to currents or vice versa.� Antennas, Second Edition, 1988, by John
D. Kraus. Page 19.

What about it? Is there some reason why RF photons should not exist?

There are a lot of people that believe that light is somehow special
and the dual nature of all electromagnetic radiation doesn't exist.

Most of them base this on the fact that it is impossible with current
technology to detect a single photon at frequencies lower than light.


--
Jim Pennino

On 7/11/2015 1:04 PM, wrote:
rickman wrote:
On 7/11/2015 11:33 AM, Wayne wrote:
“The antenna, like the eye, is a transformation device converting
electromagnetic
photons into circuit currents; but, unlike the eye, the antenna can also
convert energy
from a circuit into photons radiated into space. In simplest terms an
antenna converts
photons to currents or vice versa.� Antennas, Second Edition, 1988, by John
D. Kraus. Page 19.

What about it? Is there some reason why RF photons should not exist?

There are a lot of people that believe that light is somehow special
and the dual nature of all electromagnetic radiation doesn't exist.

Most of them base this on the fact that it is impossible with current
technology to detect a single photon at frequencies lower than light.



Radiating RF at the same wavelength as light will produce an
electromagnetic field that is not visible to any eye.

If you think that photons will be converted to electric current on an
antenna, try flashing a light on any antenna and check for results.

Please report back any findings here. :-)

FBMBoomer wrote:

On 7/11/2015 1:04 PM, wrote:
rickman wrote:
On 7/11/2015 11:33 AM, Wayne wrote: "The antenna, like the eye, is a
transformation device converting electromagnetic photons into
circuit currents; but, unlike the eye, the antenna can also convert
energy from a circuit into photons radiated into space. In simplest
terms an antenna converts photons to currents or vice versa."
Antennas, Second Edition, 1988, by John D. Kraus. Page 19.

What about it? Is there some reason why RF photons should not exist?

There are a lot of people that believe that light is somehow special
and the dual nature of all electromagnetic radiation doesn't exist.

Most of them base this on the fact that it is impossible with current
technology to detect a single photon at frequencies lower than light.



Radiating RF at the same wavelength as light will produce an
electromagnetic field that is not visible to any eye.

Damn! I was hoping to invent light bulbs!



If you think that photons will be converted to electric current on an
antenna, try flashing a light on any antenna and check for results.

Please report back any findings here. :-)


--
Roger Hayter

"FBMBoomer" wrote in message ...

On 7/11/2015 1:04 PM, wrote:
rickman wrote:
On 7/11/2015 11:33 AM, Wayne wrote:
“The antenna, like the eye, is a transformation device converting
electromagnetic
photons into circuit currents; but, unlike the eye, the antenna can
also
convert energy
from a circuit into photons radiated into space. In simplest terms an
antenna converts
photons to currents or vice versa.� Antennas, Second Edition, 1988, by
John
D. Kraus. Page 19.

What about it? Is there some reason why RF photons should not exist?

There are a lot of people that believe that light is somehow special
and the dual nature of all electromagnetic radiation doesn't exist.

Most of them base this on the fact that it is impossible with current
technology to detect a single photon at frequencies lower than light.



Radiating RF at the same wavelength as light will produce an
electromagnetic field that is not visible to any eye.

And the flip side is that the frequency of light can be lowered to the point
that photons are not visible to any eye.

If a photon is the quantum of electromagnetic radiation, maybe it isn't that
far fetched to imagine antennas radiating photons.

But there is much to consider. How would a rf signal composed of protons
bounce off the ionosphere to produce skip.

FBMBoomer wrote:
On 7/11/2015 1:04 PM, wrote:
rickman wrote:
On 7/11/2015 11:33 AM, Wayne wrote:
“The antenna, like the eye, is a transformation device converting
electromagnetic
photons into circuit currents; but, unlike the eye, the antenna can also
convert energy
from a circuit into photons radiated into space. In simplest terms an
antenna converts
photons to currents or vice versa.� Antennas, Second Edition, 1988, by John
D. Kraus. Page 19.

What about it? Is there some reason why RF photons should not exist?

There are a lot of people that believe that light is somehow special
and the dual nature of all electromagnetic radiation doesn't exist.

Most of them base this on the fact that it is impossible with current
technology to detect a single photon at frequencies lower than light.



Radiating RF at the same wavelength as light will produce an
electromagnetic field that is not visible to any eye.

Babble; light IS electromagnetic radiation.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Light

If you think that photons will be converted to electric current on an
antenna, try flashing a light on any antenna and check for results.

Babble; antennas for light frequencies have been contructed in labs and
guess what, they produce a voltage. Research continues to make them
a practical solar energy converter.

http://arxiv.org/pdf/1204.0330v1.pdf
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nantenna
http://www.nature.com/nphoton/journa....2010.237.html

Please report back any findings here. :-)

I find you are an ignorant babbler.


--
Jim Pennino

On Sat, 11 Jul 2015 08:33:24 -0700, "Wayne"
wrote:

“The antenna, like the eye, is a transformation device converting
electromagnetic
photons into circuit currents; but, unlike the eye, the antenna can also
convert energy
from a circuit into photons radiated into space. In simplest terms an
antenna converts
photons to currents or vice versa.” Antennas, Second Edition, 1988, by John
D. Kraus. Page 19.

Yep, antennas radiate photons.

Quantum theory treats RF and light as both a wave and a particle. If
you put a pressure gauge behind a flat plate in front of your antenna,
you would be able to detect the tiny pressure produced by your RF
emissions. The problem is that it's very very very small because the
energy decreases linearly with the frequency. When calculating
orbital mechanics, light pressure is a major consideration. When
building interstellar space craft, "light sails" are a common idea.

This should explain it:
https://www.khanacademy.org/test-prep/mcat/physical-processes/light-and-electromagnetic-radiation-questions/v/photon-energy#

Photon (RF or light) pressure have been measured in the laboratory by
using two pressure gauges, blocking RF and light from one gauge, and
measuring the differential pressure. The differential measurement
cancels external influences, such as gravity, wind, earth movement,
etc.


In Kraus 3rd edition (2002), the term "photons" appears in questions
2-16-1.

2-16-1. Spaceship near moon.
A spaceship at lunar distance from the earth transmits 2 GHz waves. If
a power of 10 W is radiated isotropically, find (a) the average
Poynting vector at the earth, (b) the rms electric field E at the
earth and (c) the time it takes for the radio waves to travel from the
spaceship to the earth. (Take the earth-moon distance as 380 Mm.) (d)
How many photons per unit area per second fall on the earth from the
spaceship transmitter?

I couldn't paste the answer because the original, in MS Word format,
used characters in the formulas that don't translate to ASCII very
gracefully. I'll try to trasnscribble and annotate for clarity:

(d) Energy_of_Photon = hf = 6.63*10^-34 * 2*10^-24 J
where h=6.63*10^-34 Js (Plank's constant)
This is the energy of a 2.5 MHz photon.
From (a), PV=5.5*^10-18 Js^-1 m^-2
Therefore, number of photons =
(5.5*10^-18 / 1.3*^10^-24) = 4.2*10^6 m^-2 s^-1 (or 1/J)

--
Jeff Liebermann
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

On Sun, 12 Jul 2015 19:54:44 -0700, Jeff Liebermann
wrote:

Oops. I goofed in typing in several places. The last part should be:

(d) Energy_of_Photon = hf = 6.63*10^-34 * 2*10^9 J = 1.3*10^-24 J
where h=6.63*10^-34 Js (Plank's constant)
This is the energy of a 2.5 MHz photon.
From (a), PV=5.5*10-^18 Js^-1 m^-2
Therefore, number of photons =
(5.5*10^-18 / 1.3*^10^-24) = 4.2*10^6 m^-2 s^-1

Hmm... I have no idea where the "2.5 MHz" came from or the strange
units for the "number of photons".



--
Jeff Liebermann
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

In article , Jeff Liebermann writes:
Photon (RF or light) pressure have been measured in the laboratory by
using two pressure gauges, blocking RF and light from one gauge, and
measuring the differential pressure. The differential measurement
cancels external influences, such as gravity, wind, earth movement,
etc.

Maxwell's equations - classical field theory - predict light
pressure even without photons and quantum theory. Double slit
experiments show interference patterns are followed even by
single photons allowed to to pass - exactly as if each photon
converted to a wave and portions passed through each slit and
thus _the photon interfered with itself_.

You really have to observe quantum effects before you can
register individual photons.

And, with e = h nu, nu being frequency, quantum effects at UHF
and below are much harder to see because each photon has such
low energy.

George