Home |
Search |
Today's Posts |
#11
|
|||
|
|||
Antenna/Line challenge #1
On 7/20/2015 10:43 AM, John S wrote:
On 7/20/2015 8:46 AM, Roger Hayter wrote: John S wrote: Correct. And neither is a true short circuit. But, I was sticking to theoretical conditions rather than getting into how much of a short or open circuit really is. Would a superconductor not be a true short circuit? Anyway, I thought you were specifically talking about what was "possible" rather than theoretical limits. Your all-purpose 1 W amplifier could have an output voltage or current than approached infinity as the output load approached open circuit and short circuit, if you are still talking theoretically. I thought I made it clear that we are talking theoretically. If we are, super conduction is moot. Yes, a source can approach, but not achieve, infinite voltage or current. Also, as I said earlier, it is not infinite but is undefined or unbounded mathematically. We call it infinite so we can wrap our heads around the concept. We can discuss "possible" rather than theoretical if you prefer. We would then need to to define how good is a short circuit or an open circuit and put numbers to them. How do we define the source so that we agree on its properties? I am eager to discuss these things, so please present a possible scenario for us to discuss. So can we all agree that a source can supply a fixed power to a load? -- Rick |
#12
|
|||
|
|||
Antenna/Line challenge #1
On 7/20/2015 11:09 AM, rickman wrote:
On 7/20/2015 10:43 AM, John S wrote: On 7/20/2015 8:46 AM, Roger Hayter wrote: John S wrote: Correct. And neither is a true short circuit. But, I was sticking to theoretical conditions rather than getting into how much of a short or open circuit really is. Would a superconductor not be a true short circuit? Anyway, I thought you were specifically talking about what was "possible" rather than theoretical limits. Your all-purpose 1 W amplifier could have an output voltage or current than approached infinity as the output load approached open circuit and short circuit, if you are still talking theoretically. I thought I made it clear that we are talking theoretically. If we are, super conduction is moot. Yes, a source can approach, but not achieve, infinite voltage or current. Also, as I said earlier, it is not infinite but is undefined or unbounded mathematically. We call it infinite so we can wrap our heads around the concept. We can discuss "possible" rather than theoretical if you prefer. We would then need to to define how good is a short circuit or an open circuit and put numbers to them. How do we define the source so that we agree on its properties? I am eager to discuss these things, so please present a possible scenario for us to discuss. So can we all agree that a source can supply a fixed power to a load? Well, speaking for myself, YES, but within the constraints that it cannot supply power to a theoretical short circuit nor a theoretical open circuit. For example, EZNEC allows a power source. Do you have and use EZNEC? I think you know you can get a demo for free, yes? Would you care to discuss a different scenario? |
#13
|
|||
|
|||
Antenna/Line challenge #1
On 7/20/2015 12:22 PM, John S wrote:
On 7/20/2015 11:09 AM, rickman wrote: So can we all agree that a source can supply a fixed power to a load? Well, speaking for myself, YES, but within the constraints that it cannot supply power to a theoretical short circuit nor a theoretical open circuit. For example, EZNEC allows a power source. Do you have and use EZNEC? I think you know you can get a demo for free, yes? Would you care to discuss a different scenario? I'd just like to not discuss the minutia. There are some smart people here and I can learn a lot, but not when people start debating how many angels can dance on the head of a pin. -- Rick |
#14
|
|||
|
|||
Antenna/Line challenge #1
rickman wrote:
On 7/20/2015 12:22 PM, John S wrote: On 7/20/2015 11:09 AM, rickman wrote: So can we all agree that a source can supply a fixed power to a load? Well, speaking for myself, YES, but within the constraints that it cannot supply power to a theoretical short circuit nor a theoretical open circuit. For example, EZNEC allows a power source. Do you have and use EZNEC? I think you know you can get a demo for free, yes? Would you care to discuss a different scenario? I'd just like to not discuss the minutia. There are some smart people here and I can learn a lot, but not when people start debating how many angels can dance on the head of a pin. Fair enough, but do let others do it because it is sometimes the minutiae and the limiting cases that make it easier to understand the average case. -- Roger Hayter |
#15
|
|||
|
|||
Antenna/Line challenge #1
On 7/20/2015 5:59 PM, Roger Hayter wrote:
rickman wrote: On 7/20/2015 12:22 PM, John S wrote: On 7/20/2015 11:09 AM, rickman wrote: So can we all agree that a source can supply a fixed power to a load? Well, speaking for myself, YES, but within the constraints that it cannot supply power to a theoretical short circuit nor a theoretical open circuit. For example, EZNEC allows a power source. Do you have and use EZNEC? I think you know you can get a demo for free, yes? Would you care to discuss a different scenario? I'd just like to not discuss the minutia. There are some smart people here and I can learn a lot, but not when people start debating how many angels can dance on the head of a pin. Fair enough, but do let others do it because it is sometimes the minutiae and the limiting cases that make it easier to understand the average case. It's not so much the minutia I don't care for, it is the *arguing* over minutia and then insulting one another that I don't care for. I mean, really! How many posts were made regarding whether it was realistic/possible/worthwhile to use an example with a source supplying a fixed power to different loads? By the time that was discussed I don't think anyone remembered the point actually being discussed. -- Rick |
#16
|
|||
|
|||
Antenna/Line challenge #1
rickman wrote:
On 7/20/2015 5:59 PM, Roger Hayter wrote: rickman wrote: On 7/20/2015 12:22 PM, John S wrote: On 7/20/2015 11:09 AM, rickman wrote: So can we all agree that a source can supply a fixed power to a load? Well, speaking for myself, YES, but within the constraints that it cannot supply power to a theoretical short circuit nor a theoretical open circuit. For example, EZNEC allows a power source. Do you have and use EZNEC? I think you know you can get a demo for free, yes? Would you care to discuss a different scenario? I'd just like to not discuss the minutia. There are some smart people here and I can learn a lot, but not when people start debating how many angels can dance on the head of a pin. Fair enough, but do let others do it because it is sometimes the minutiae and the limiting cases that make it easier to understand the average case. It's not so much the minutia I don't care for, it is the *arguing* over minutia and then insulting one another that I don't care for. I mean, really! How many posts were made regarding whether it was realistic/possible/worthwhile to use an example with a source supplying a fixed power to different loads? By the time that was discussed I don't think anyone remembered the point actually being discussed. But that is actually a very germane discussion. Looking at the limiting cases clarifies that the range of usefulness of a fixed power source can be wide enough for practical purposes. Once you accept that a fixed power source is technically quite possible for a practical range of loads, you can analyse the the necessary matching for it. And this leads directly to the conclusion that fixed source impedance and "conjugate matching" of the source is irrelevant in a real system. This is an important conclusion as some people have been making unnecessary difficulties for themselves assuming the opposite. -- Roger Hayter |
Reply |
|
Thread Tools | Search this Thread |
Display Modes | |
|
|