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#1
March 25th 16, 12:22 PM
posted to rec.radio.amateur.antenna
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RF Window Size
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#3
March 25th 16, 02:58 PM
posted to rec.radio.amateur.antenna
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RF Window Size
On 3/25/2016 8:50 AM, Roger Hayter wrote:
Pat wrote: On Fri, 25 Mar 2016 12:04:11 +0000, (Roger Hayter) wrote: Pat wrote: My antenna theory knowledge is a little weak so I thought you guys might be able to help. Background: I have a shed about 50 feet away from my house that contains water pumps and similar equipment that I monitor. The shed has no windows but was built using normal stud-wall construction. I built a small device that receives information from sensors and then reports back to my PC via my home network. I have no way to run wires to the shed because there is a driveway in between, so I decided to use wi-fi. The shed had a good strong wi-fi signal inside it and everything worked well for the last 5 years. Recently, vinyl siding was added to the shed. The installers used foil coated styrofoam insulation under the siding. The shed has changed from being fairly transparent to RF to being a somewhat leaky faraday shield. The wifi module still works, but just barely. There are lots of missed messages and any interference from devices like the microwave oven in the house shut down communications. Question: I want to create an RF "window" in the shed wall. How big does it need to be to let 2400 MHz signals pass through it? A full wavelength? Half wavelength? Should it be rectangular or would a vertical slot work? Opening the shed door (a full size metal door) temporarily restores a strong signal, but I was hoping a much smaller opening would work equally well. For aesthetic reasons, I can't experiment by cutting various size holes. What's the smallest hole I can cut in the foil coated insulation and be reasonably assured it will work? 4mm, to take the coax to an outside wifi aerial. If you can't find a wifi unit with an aerial socket, change this to usb cable to an outside wifi dongle. but you may then need a 12mm hole for the USB plug. What you have suggested is my "Plan B". The wifi module I am using does not have removable antennas and the sensor box does not have USB capabilities. Thanks for responding. ...Pat I would look into how to couple an external aerial to the built-in aerial of an existing wifif module. ISTR people doing this. Altenative, how about putting a window either in the wall towards the wifi source, or. depending on the roofing material, in the roof which can sometimes be done with acrylic or polycarbonater replacement roofing elements? There's a point. If the metal was added to the walls only, you might be able to rise above that by placing the antenna at the highest point of the roof. I assume that is accessible in a shed. -- Rick |
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#4
March 25th 16, 06:10 PM
posted to rec.radio.amateur.antenna
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RF Window Size
On Fri, 25 Mar 2016 10:58:35 -0400, rickman wrote:
On 3/25/2016 8:50 AM, Roger Hayter wrote: Pat wrote: On Fri, 25 Mar 2016 12:04:11 +0000, (Roger Hayter) wrote: Pat wrote: My antenna theory knowledge is a little weak so I thought you guys might be able to help. Background: I have a shed about 50 feet away from my house that contains water pumps and similar equipment that I monitor. The shed has no windows but was built using normal stud-wall construction. I built a small device that receives information from sensors and then reports back to my PC via my home network. I have no way to run wires to the shed because there is a driveway in between, so I decided to use wi-fi. The shed had a good strong wi-fi signal inside it and everything worked well for the last 5 years. Recently, vinyl siding was added to the shed. The installers used foil coated styrofoam insulation under the siding. The shed has changed from being fairly transparent to RF to being a somewhat leaky faraday shield. The wifi module still works, but just barely. There are lots of missed messages and any interference from devices like the microwave oven in the house shut down communications. Question: I want to create an RF "window" in the shed wall. How big does it need to be to let 2400 MHz signals pass through it? A full wavelength? Half wavelength? Should it be rectangular or would a vertical slot work? Opening the shed door (a full size metal door) temporarily restores a strong signal, but I was hoping a much smaller opening would work equally well. For aesthetic reasons, I can't experiment by cutting various size holes. What's the smallest hole I can cut in the foil coated insulation and be reasonably assured it will work? 4mm, to take the coax to an outside wifi aerial. If you can't find a wifi unit with an aerial socket, change this to usb cable to an outside wifi dongle. but you may then need a 12mm hole for the USB plug. What you have suggested is my "Plan B". The wifi module I am using does not have removable antennas and the sensor box does not have USB capabilities. Thanks for responding. ...Pat I would look into how to couple an external aerial to the built-in aerial of an existing wifif module. ISTR people doing this. Altenative, how about putting a window either in the wall towards the wifi source, or. depending on the roofing material, in the roof which can sometimes be done with acrylic or polycarbonater replacement roofing elements? There's a point. If the metal was added to the walls only, you might be able to rise above that by placing the antenna at the highest point of the roof. I assume that is accessible in a shed. Not this shed. Whoever built it finished the inside with drywall on the walls and ceiling - no access to the attic. (By the way, I expect the signal I am getting now is via the ceiling/roof.) Pat |
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#5
March 25th 16, 06:32 PM
posted to rec.radio.amateur.antenna
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RF Window Size
Pat wrote:
On Fri, 25 Mar 2016 10:58:35 -0400, rickman wrote: On 3/25/2016 8:50 AM, Roger Hayter wrote: Pat wrote: On Fri, 25 Mar 2016 12:04:11 +0000, (Roger Hayter) wrote: Pat wrote: My antenna theory knowledge is a little weak so I thought you guys might be able to help. Background: I have a shed about 50 feet away from my house that contains water pumps and similar equipment that I monitor. The shed has no windows but was built using normal stud-wall construction. I built a small device that receives information from sensors and then reports back to my PC via my home network. I have no way to run wires to the shed because there is a driveway in between, so I decided to use wi-fi. The shed had a good strong wi-fi signal inside it and everything worked well for the last 5 years. Recently, vinyl siding was added to the shed. The installers used foil coated styrofoam insulation under the siding. The shed has changed from being fairly transparent to RF to being a somewhat leaky faraday shield. The wifi module still works, but just barely. There are lots of missed messages and any interference from devices like the microwave oven in the house shut down communications. Question: I want to create an RF "window" in the shed wall. How big does it need to be to let 2400 MHz signals pass through it? A full wavelength? Half wavelength? Should it be rectangular or would a vertical slot work? Opening the shed door (a full size metal door) temporarily restores a strong signal, but I was hoping a much smaller opening would work equally well. For aesthetic reasons, I can't experiment by cutting various size holes. What's the smallest hole I can cut in the foil coated insulation and be reasonably assured it will work? 4mm, to take the coax to an outside wifi aerial. If you can't find a wifi unit with an aerial socket, change this to usb cable to an outside wifi dongle. but you may then need a 12mm hole for the USB plug. What you have suggested is my "Plan B". The wifi module I am using does not have removable antennas and the sensor box does not have USB capabilities. Thanks for responding. ...Pat I would look into how to couple an external aerial to the built-in aerial of an existing wifif module. ISTR people doing this. Altenative, how about putting a window either in the wall towards the wifi source, or. depending on the roofing material, in the roof which can sometimes be done with acrylic or polycarbonater replacement roofing elements? There's a point. If the metal was added to the walls only, you might be able to rise above that by placing the antenna at the highest point of the roof. I assume that is accessible in a shed. Not this shed. Whoever built it finished the inside with drywall on the walls and ceiling - no access to the attic. (By the way, I expect the signal I am getting now is via the ceiling/roof.) Pat Drywall is very easy to cut and patch up. Cut an access hole in the ceiling and put the RF stuff on top of the drywall. Put a trap door over the access hole if you want to keep it all neat. -- Jim Pennino |
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#6
March 25th 16, 08:58 PM
posted to rec.radio.amateur.antenna
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RF Window Size
On Fri, 25 Mar 2016 18:32:37 -0000, wrote:
Pat wrote: On Fri, 25 Mar 2016 10:58:35 -0400, rickman wrote: On 3/25/2016 8:50 AM, Roger Hayter wrote: Pat wrote: On Fri, 25 Mar 2016 12:04:11 +0000, (Roger Hayter) wrote: Pat wrote: My antenna theory knowledge is a little weak so I thought you guys might be able to help. Background: I have a shed about 50 feet away from my house that contains water pumps and similar equipment that I monitor. The shed has no windows but was built using normal stud-wall construction. I built a small device that receives information from sensors and then reports back to my PC via my home network. I have no way to run wires to the shed because there is a driveway in between, so I decided to use wi-fi. The shed had a good strong wi-fi signal inside it and everything worked well for the last 5 years. Recently, vinyl siding was added to the shed. The installers used foil coated styrofoam insulation under the siding. The shed has changed from being fairly transparent to RF to being a somewhat leaky faraday shield. The wifi module still works, but just barely. There are lots of missed messages and any interference from devices like the microwave oven in the house shut down communications. Question: I want to create an RF "window" in the shed wall. How big does it need to be to let 2400 MHz signals pass through it? A full wavelength? Half wavelength? Should it be rectangular or would a vertical slot work? Opening the shed door (a full size metal door) temporarily restores a strong signal, but I was hoping a much smaller opening would work equally well. For aesthetic reasons, I can't experiment by cutting various size holes. What's the smallest hole I can cut in the foil coated insulation and be reasonably assured it will work? 4mm, to take the coax to an outside wifi aerial. If you can't find a wifi unit with an aerial socket, change this to usb cable to an outside wifi dongle. but you may then need a 12mm hole for the USB plug. What you have suggested is my "Plan B". The wifi module I am using does not have removable antennas and the sensor box does not have USB capabilities. Thanks for responding. ...Pat I would look into how to couple an external aerial to the built-in aerial of an existing wifif module. ISTR people doing this. Altenative, how about putting a window either in the wall towards the wifi source, or. depending on the roofing material, in the roof which can sometimes be done with acrylic or polycarbonater replacement roofing elements? There's a point. If the metal was added to the walls only, you might be able to rise above that by placing the antenna at the highest point of the roof. I assume that is accessible in a shed. Not this shed. Whoever built it finished the inside with drywall on the walls and ceiling - no access to the attic. (By the way, I expect the signal I am getting now is via the ceiling/roof.) Pat Drywall is very easy to cut and patch up. Cut an access hole in the ceiling and put the RF stuff on top of the drywall. Put a trap door over the access hole if you want to keep it all neat. The problem with that is the shed has a gable roof. The new siding and foil backed insulation goes all the way to the peak on the ends. Unfortunately, the wifi signal comes from one of those ends. Pat |
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#7
March 25th 16, 06:54 PM
posted to rec.radio.amateur.antenna
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RF Window Size
On 3/25/2016 2:10 PM, Pat wrote:
On Fri, 25 Mar 2016 10:58:35 -0400, rickman wrote: On 3/25/2016 8:50 AM, Roger Hayter wrote: Pat wrote: On Fri, 25 Mar 2016 12:04:11 +0000, (Roger Hayter) wrote: Pat wrote: My antenna theory knowledge is a little weak so I thought you guys might be able to help. Background: I have a shed about 50 feet away from my house that contains water pumps and similar equipment that I monitor. The shed has no windows but was built using normal stud-wall construction. I built a small device that receives information from sensors and then reports back to my PC via my home network. I have no way to run wires to the shed because there is a driveway in between, so I decided to use wi-fi. The shed had a good strong wi-fi signal inside it and everything worked well for the last 5 years. Recently, vinyl siding was added to the shed. The installers used foil coated styrofoam insulation under the siding. The shed has changed from being fairly transparent to RF to being a somewhat leaky faraday shield. The wifi module still works, but just barely. There are lots of missed messages and any interference from devices like the microwave oven in the house shut down communications. Question: I want to create an RF "window" in the shed wall. How big does it need to be to let 2400 MHz signals pass through it? A full wavelength? Half wavelength? Should it be rectangular or would a vertical slot work? Opening the shed door (a full size metal door) temporarily restores a strong signal, but I was hoping a much smaller opening would work equally well. For aesthetic reasons, I can't experiment by cutting various size holes. What's the smallest hole I can cut in the foil coated insulation and be reasonably assured it will work? 4mm, to take the coax to an outside wifi aerial. If you can't find a wifi unit with an aerial socket, change this to usb cable to an outside wifi dongle. but you may then need a 12mm hole for the USB plug. What you have suggested is my "Plan B". The wifi module I am using does not have removable antennas and the sensor box does not have USB capabilities. Thanks for responding. ...Pat I would look into how to couple an external aerial to the built-in aerial of an existing wifif module. ISTR people doing this. Altenative, how about putting a window either in the wall towards the wifi source, or. depending on the roofing material, in the roof which can sometimes be done with acrylic or polycarbonater replacement roofing elements? There's a point. If the metal was added to the walls only, you might be able to rise above that by placing the antenna at the highest point of the roof. I assume that is accessible in a shed. Not this shed. Whoever built it finished the inside with drywall on the walls and ceiling - no access to the attic. (By the way, I expect the signal I am getting now is via the ceiling/roof.) I wanted to modify the lighting on my porch. The ceiling is covered with wood. So I cut a panel and framed it with some nice wood to make an access hatch. You can do the same thing with the drywall. -- Rick |
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#8
March 25th 16, 09:06 PM
posted to rec.radio.amateur.antenna
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RF Window Size
On Fri, 25 Mar 2016 14:54:16 -0400, rickman wrote:
On 3/25/2016 2:10 PM, Pat wrote: On Fri, 25 Mar 2016 10:58:35 -0400, rickman wrote: On 3/25/2016 8:50 AM, Roger Hayter wrote: Pat wrote: On Fri, 25 Mar 2016 12:04:11 +0000, (Roger Hayter) wrote: Pat wrote: My antenna theory knowledge is a little weak so I thought you guys might be able to help. Background: I have a shed about 50 feet away from my house that contains water pumps and similar equipment that I monitor. The shed has no windows but was built using normal stud-wall construction. I built a small device that receives information from sensors and then reports back to my PC via my home network. I have no way to run wires to the shed because there is a driveway in between, so I decided to use wi-fi. The shed had a good strong wi-fi signal inside it and everything worked well for the last 5 years. Recently, vinyl siding was added to the shed. The installers used foil coated styrofoam insulation under the siding. The shed has changed from being fairly transparent to RF to being a somewhat leaky faraday shield. The wifi module still works, but just barely. There are lots of missed messages and any interference from devices like the microwave oven in the house shut down communications. Question: I want to create an RF "window" in the shed wall. How big does it need to be to let 2400 MHz signals pass through it? A full wavelength? Half wavelength? Should it be rectangular or would a vertical slot work? Opening the shed door (a full size metal door) temporarily restores a strong signal, but I was hoping a much smaller opening would work equally well. For aesthetic reasons, I can't experiment by cutting various size holes. What's the smallest hole I can cut in the foil coated insulation and be reasonably assured it will work? 4mm, to take the coax to an outside wifi aerial. If you can't find a wifi unit with an aerial socket, change this to usb cable to an outside wifi dongle. but you may then need a 12mm hole for the USB plug. What you have suggested is my "Plan B". The wifi module I am using does not have removable antennas and the sensor box does not have USB capabilities. Thanks for responding. ...Pat I would look into how to couple an external aerial to the built-in aerial of an existing wifif module. ISTR people doing this. Altenative, how about putting a window either in the wall towards the wifi source, or. depending on the roofing material, in the roof which can sometimes be done with acrylic or polycarbonater replacement roofing elements? There's a point. If the metal was added to the walls only, you might be able to rise above that by placing the antenna at the highest point of the roof. I assume that is accessible in a shed. Not this shed. Whoever built it finished the inside with drywall on the walls and ceiling - no access to the attic. (By the way, I expect the signal I am getting now is via the ceiling/roof.) I wanted to modify the lighting on my porch. The ceiling is covered with wood. So I cut a panel and framed it with some nice wood to make an access hatch. You can do the same thing with the drywall. I ended up using a plastic cover plate I found at Home Depot. It is essential what you are recommending, but instead of making it from wood, it comes ready made. It only cost $14 USD. It has a frame that spans to studs and a 14" x 14" removalble door insert. Not as nice as what you propose, but for the shed, it is one of the nicest looking things in there :-) |
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#9
March 25th 16, 11:50 PM
posted to rec.radio.amateur.antenna
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RF Window Size
On 3/25/2016 5:06 PM, Pat wrote:
On Fri, 25 Mar 2016 14:54:16 -0400, rickman wrote: On 3/25/2016 2:10 PM, Pat wrote: On Fri, 25 Mar 2016 10:58:35 -0400, rickman wrote: On 3/25/2016 8:50 AM, Roger Hayter wrote: Pat wrote: On Fri, 25 Mar 2016 12:04:11 +0000, (Roger Hayter) wrote: Pat wrote: My antenna theory knowledge is a little weak so I thought you guys might be able to help. Background: I have a shed about 50 feet away from my house that contains water pumps and similar equipment that I monitor. The shed has no windows but was built using normal stud-wall construction. I built a small device that receives information from sensors and then reports back to my PC via my home network. I have no way to run wires to the shed because there is a driveway in between, so I decided to use wi-fi. The shed had a good strong wi-fi signal inside it and everything worked well for the last 5 years. Recently, vinyl siding was added to the shed. The installers used foil coated styrofoam insulation under the siding. The shed has changed from being fairly transparent to RF to being a somewhat leaky faraday shield. The wifi module still works, but just barely. There are lots of missed messages and any interference from devices like the microwave oven in the house shut down communications. Question: I want to create an RF "window" in the shed wall. How big does it need to be to let 2400 MHz signals pass through it? A full wavelength? Half wavelength? Should it be rectangular or would a vertical slot work? Opening the shed door (a full size metal door) temporarily restores a strong signal, but I was hoping a much smaller opening would work equally well. For aesthetic reasons, I can't experiment by cutting various size holes. What's the smallest hole I can cut in the foil coated insulation and be reasonably assured it will work? 4mm, to take the coax to an outside wifi aerial. If you can't find a wifi unit with an aerial socket, change this to usb cable to an outside wifi dongle. but you may then need a 12mm hole for the USB plug. What you have suggested is my "Plan B". The wifi module I am using does not have removable antennas and the sensor box does not have USB capabilities. Thanks for responding. ...Pat I would look into how to couple an external aerial to the built-in aerial of an existing wifif module. ISTR people doing this. Altenative, how about putting a window either in the wall towards the wifi source, or. depending on the roofing material, in the roof which can sometimes be done with acrylic or polycarbonater replacement roofing elements? There's a point. If the metal was added to the walls only, you might be able to rise above that by placing the antenna at the highest point of the roof. I assume that is accessible in a shed. Not this shed. Whoever built it finished the inside with drywall on the walls and ceiling - no access to the attic. (By the way, I expect the signal I am getting now is via the ceiling/roof.) I wanted to modify the lighting on my porch. The ceiling is covered with wood. So I cut a panel and framed it with some nice wood to make an access hatch. You can do the same thing with the drywall. I ended up using a plastic cover plate I found at Home Depot. It is essential what you are recommending, but instead of making it from wood, it comes ready made. It only cost $14 USD. It has a frame that spans to studs and a 14" x 14" removalble door insert. Not as nice as what you propose, but for the shed, it is one of the nicest looking things in there :-) Mine was basically free. The wood was reused as the removable panel and the trim wood was scrap. I think I nail the trim to the door and used a couple of screws to hold it to the ceiling. Still $14 is not much more than free and saves some work. -- Rick |
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