On 3/25/2016 2:25 PM, Pat wrote:
On Fri, 25 Mar 2016 09:37:36 -0700, Jeff Liebermann
wrote:

On Fri, 25 Mar 2016 07:48:23 -0400, Pat wrote:

I want to create an RF "window" in the shed wall. How big does it
need to be to let 2400 MHz signals pass through it?

The minimum would be a half wave slot cut through the aluminum foil.
The width will vary depending on the type of antenna and its proximity
to the slot. Unless you have a half wave dipole near the slot, it
won't work. If you're using a patch antenna or something similar,
probably a half wave by half wave square hole would be a good minimum.
Of course, bigger is better as it reduces any edge diffraction
effects.

At 2.4GHz, 1 wavelength = 12.5cm so a 6.25 cm long slot would be the
minimum.

A full
wavelength? Half wavelength? Should it be rectangular or would a
vertical slot work?

See first paragraph.

If you want to get fancy, you can cut a 1/2 wave slot in the foil, and
turn it into an antenna. It's called a "slot antenna". Watch out for
the non-obvious change in polarization. A horizontal slot antenna
produces a vertically polarized signal.
http://www.antenna-theory.com/antennas/aperture/slot.php

Opening the shed door (a full size metal door)
temporarily restores a strong signal, but I was hoping a much smaller
opening would work equally well. For aesthetic reasons, I can't
experiment by cutting various size holes.

I suggest you look into what "rickman" suggested. If there's no foil
backed insulation in the attic area, and the roof tiles are not RF
attenuators or reflectors, moving the radio to the attic should be
easy enough. You could also install a fake plastic vent pipe on the
roof, and shove the antenna or radio into the pipe. Use your
imagination.

What's the smallest hole I
can cut in the foil coated insulation and be reasonably assured it
will work?

6.25 x 6.25cm However, bigger is better and I think twice as large
would be more usable. Be sure that the radio is fairly close to the
hole.

If your unspecified radio has an external antenna connector, find a
cheap patch or panel wi-fi antenna on eBay, punch a small hole in the
wall, mount the antenna on the outside of the building, and you're
done. Something like this:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/381490123431
Note that all the gain specifications are lies.

Thank you Jeff. That is what I was looking for. Thanks to all the
others who responded as well. I went over to my local Home Depot and
found a plastic cover plate that can cover a 14x14 inch (35x35 cm)
hole in drywall. I plan to remove a piece of drywall that size and
then remove a piece of the foil covered insulation - from the inside.
That will give me a good size RF window without changing the outside
appearance of the shed at all. I will then install the plastic cover
on the inside and place the wifi module near its center. I will let
you all know how it all works out in a few days.

Before hacking out insulation, I'd try the attic approach first.

--

Rick

On Fri, 25 Mar 2016 14:57:29 -0400, rickman wrote:

On 3/25/2016 2:25 PM, Pat wrote:
On Fri, 25 Mar 2016 09:37:36 -0700, Jeff Liebermann
wrote:

On Fri, 25 Mar 2016 07:48:23 -0400, Pat wrote:

I want to create an RF "window" in the shed wall. How big does it
need to be to let 2400 MHz signals pass through it?

The minimum would be a half wave slot cut through the aluminum foil.
The width will vary depending on the type of antenna and its proximity
to the slot. Unless you have a half wave dipole near the slot, it
won't work. If you're using a patch antenna or something similar,
probably a half wave by half wave square hole would be a good minimum.
Of course, bigger is better as it reduces any edge diffraction
effects.

At 2.4GHz, 1 wavelength = 12.5cm so a 6.25 cm long slot would be the
minimum.

A full
wavelength? Half wavelength? Should it be rectangular or would a
vertical slot work?

See first paragraph.

If you want to get fancy, you can cut a 1/2 wave slot in the foil, and
turn it into an antenna. It's called a "slot antenna". Watch out for
the non-obvious change in polarization. A horizontal slot antenna
produces a vertically polarized signal.
http://www.antenna-theory.com/antennas/aperture/slot.php

Opening the shed door (a full size metal door)
temporarily restores a strong signal, but I was hoping a much smaller
opening would work equally well. For aesthetic reasons, I can't
experiment by cutting various size holes.

I suggest you look into what "rickman" suggested. If there's no foil
backed insulation in the attic area, and the roof tiles are not RF
attenuators or reflectors, moving the radio to the attic should be
easy enough. You could also install a fake plastic vent pipe on the
roof, and shove the antenna or radio into the pipe. Use your
imagination.

What's the smallest hole I
can cut in the foil coated insulation and be reasonably assured it
will work?

6.25 x 6.25cm However, bigger is better and I think twice as large
would be more usable. Be sure that the radio is fairly close to the
hole.

If your unspecified radio has an external antenna connector, find a
cheap patch or panel wi-fi antenna on eBay, punch a small hole in the
wall, mount the antenna on the outside of the building, and you're
done. Something like this:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/381490123431
Note that all the gain specifications are lies.

Thank you Jeff. That is what I was looking for. Thanks to all the
others who responded as well. I went over to my local Home Depot and
found a plastic cover plate that can cover a 14x14 inch (35x35 cm)
hole in drywall. I plan to remove a piece of drywall that size and
then remove a piece of the foil covered insulation - from the inside.
That will give me a good size RF window without changing the outside
appearance of the shed at all. I will then install the plastic cover
on the inside and place the wifi module near its center. I will let
you all know how it all works out in a few days.

Before hacking out insulation, I'd try the attic approach first.

Too late. I already did it and without moving the wifi module to be
near the hole, the signal already improved from marginal (a red
indicator LED) to OK (the LED is now yellow). Tomorrow, I will move
the wifi module to be near the hole. I expect a green LED after that.

Pat

On Fri, 25 Mar 2016 16:54:42 -0400, Pat wrote:

Before hacking out insulation, I'd try the attic approach first.

Too late. I already did it and without moving the wifi module to be
near the hole, the signal already improved from marginal (a red
indicator LED) to OK (the LED is now yellow). Tomorrow, I will move
the wifi module to be near the hole. I expect a green LED after that.

Pat

Final update: I moved the wifi device to right in front of my RF
hole. The LED is green and everything is back to normal. I replaced
the old insulation with non-foil type and covered the hole with the
$15 cover plate a mentioned in previous posts. All is well. Thanks.

Pat

On 3/26/2016 1:45 PM, Pat wrote:
On Fri, 25 Mar 2016 16:54:42 -0400, Pat wrote:

Before hacking out insulation, I'd try the attic approach first.

Too late. I already did it and without moving the wifi module to be
near the hole, the signal already improved from marginal (a red
indicator LED) to OK (the LED is now yellow). Tomorrow, I will move
the wifi module to be near the hole. I expect a green LED after that.

Pat

Final update: I moved the wifi device to right in front of my RF
hole. The LED is green and everything is back to normal. I replaced
the old insulation with non-foil type and covered the hole with the
$15 cover plate a mentioned in previous posts. All is well. Thanks.

Good job.

I will say the metal is on the insulation for a reason. It may be
moisture barrier. Is that important with your shed?

--

Rick

On Sat, 26 Mar 2016 14:09:26 -0400, rickman wrote:

On 3/26/2016 1:45 PM, Pat wrote:
On Fri, 25 Mar 2016 16:54:42 -0400, Pat wrote:

Before hacking out insulation, I'd try the attic approach first.

Too late. I already did it and without moving the wifi module to be
near the hole, the signal already improved from marginal (a red
indicator LED) to OK (the LED is now yellow). Tomorrow, I will move
the wifi module to be near the hole. I expect a green LED after that.

Pat

Final update: I moved the wifi device to right in front of my RF
hole. The LED is green and everything is back to normal. I replaced
the old insulation with non-foil type and covered the hole with the
$15 cover plate a mentioned in previous posts. All is well. Thanks.

Good job.

I will say the metal is on the insulation for a reason. It may be
moisture barrier. Is that important with your shed?

It can't be very important since none of it was there until the new
siding was added. The siding was added for aesthetic reasons - not to
solve any other problems. However, I did add a plastic sheet over the
hole before replacing the fiberglass batt insulation in the stud wall.
I will keep an eye on it in extreme weather (hot or cold) to make
sure.

Pat

On 3/26/2016 4:49 PM, Pat wrote:
On Sat, 26 Mar 2016 14:09:26 -0400, rickman wrote:

On 3/26/2016 1:45 PM, Pat wrote:
On Fri, 25 Mar 2016 16:54:42 -0400, Pat wrote:

Before hacking out insulation, I'd try the attic approach first.

Too late. I already did it and without moving the wifi module to be
near the hole, the signal already improved from marginal (a red
indicator LED) to OK (the LED is now yellow). Tomorrow, I will move
the wifi module to be near the hole. I expect a green LED after that.

Pat

Final update: I moved the wifi device to right in front of my RF
hole. The LED is green and everything is back to normal. I replaced
the old insulation with non-foil type and covered the hole with the
$15 cover plate a mentioned in previous posts. All is well. Thanks.

Good job.

I will say the metal is on the insulation for a reason. It may be
moisture barrier. Is that important with your shed?

It can't be very important since none of it was there until the new
siding was added. The siding was added for aesthetic reasons - not to
solve any other problems. However, I did add a plastic sheet over the
hole before replacing the fiberglass batt insulation in the stud wall.
I will keep an eye on it in extreme weather (hot or cold) to make
sure.

Just curious, which side is the metal and plastic on, inside or out? I
expect they used materials intended for living space just because that
is what they normally use. None of this is likely to be important for
your use. I think the vapor barrier is normally on the inside to
prevent moisture from inside getting into the insulation which would
then conduct heat more readily. In any event I think you have a winner.

--

Rick

On Sat, 26 Mar 2016 18:30:50 -0400, rickman wrote:


Just curious, which side is the metal and plastic on, inside or out? I
expect they used materials intended for living space just because that
is what they normally use. None of this is likely to be important for
your use. I think the vapor barrier is normally on the inside to
prevent moisture from inside getting into the insulation which would
then conduct heat more readily. In any event I think you have a winner.

Before cutting the hole, I would have said outside, but it turns out
the foil was on both. And, yes, you are correct that they used the
same material they brought for the big job - siding the occupied
building.

Pat