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#1
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i thank you all for the comments.
to tie into the electirical service will be a pain as the electrical gound is on the total oposite end of the house from the shack. i'll have to work something out there. water pipe grounding will not be a problem. i can see i have much more reading to do. thanks agian, mike -- 73 de KU4YP "A clean ham shack is the Mike Prevatt sign of a sick mind....." Advanced Operator Bartow, Florida Active HF/VHF/Digital "Dave" wrote in message ... 'as short as possible' it the important phrase. its not always possible to keep it really short. another important part is keeping it as fat as possible, meaning use heavy wire or, even better, something like copper flashing, aluminum flashing or angle stock, or something like that. aluminum angle stock that you find in 6-8' lengths in hardware stores makes excellent ground busses, its easily drilled for connections to equipment, can be easily bolted together at corners, and makes a nice neat installtion... use the 1" or wider stuff if you can get it. do not use multiple ground rods unless you also connect them all together outside... and if you do drive a 'station' ground rod be sure it is also connected outside with heavy conductor to your existing power entrance ground. and while you are at it make sure the power entrance is also connected to your water pipe coming in, pool filter ground, outdoor light ground, and anything else grounded outside the house. "ku4yp" wrote in message news:599_c.677$Va5.488@trnddc01... i have a question. in reference to station grounding, i have read keep the grounding strap as short as possible and not a multiple of a resonant length on the ham bands. with that in mind, even if i ground pieces of equipment to individual ground rods, won't the complete grounding system be long? in my mind i am looking around the room and seeing a grounding system being at least 12 feet long, if i go along the perimeter of the desks (which are in a "U" shape in the room. trying to grasp this in a practical sense. sorry if it is basic and i am just not understanding it. not responsible for spelling. :-) any input on this would be most appreciated. -- 73 de KU4YP "A clean ham shack is the Mike Prevatt sign of a sick mind....." Advanced Operator Bartow, Florida Active HF/VHF/Digital |
#2
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On Sat, 04 Sep 2004 20:28:58 GMT, "ku4yp" wrote:
i thank you all for the comments. to tie into the electirical service will be a pain as the electrical gound is on the total oposite end of the house from the shack. i'll have to work something out there. water pipe grounding will not be a problem. i can see i have much more reading to do. thanks agian, mike When we had an electrician upgrade the incoming electrical service box on my mother's house (circa 1960), he ran a large 8 gauge wire from the box at the end of the garage, along the wall of the house all the way to the incoming water line from the street near the other end of the basement, where he tied it to ground next to the water meter. The National Electrical Code has changed, and those in older houses might consider upgrading to current code (no pun intended) even if not actually required. In industrial situations, I have had to deal with ground loop problems, which are a PITA to find. Do your grounding correctly, and you will be safer, and have an easier time of it. Happy trails, Gary (net.yogi.bear) ------------------------------------------------ at the 51st percentile of ursine intelligence Gary D. Schwartz, Needham, MA, USA Please reply to: garyDOTschwartzATpoboxDOTcom |
#3
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On Thu, 09 Sep 2004 15:10:28 GMT, Gary S. Idontwantspam@net wrote:
[snip] |In industrial situations, I have had to deal with ground loop |problems, which are a PITA to find. Do your grounding correctly, and |you will be safer, and have an easier time of it. You should have seen the problems I had when I had the house electricians wiring up an r-f shielded room. Trying to convince them that they had to run just *one* ground wire from a single point on the room to a building ground and not the service entrance ground *and* that the wire couldn't be bare and laying on the sprinkler system piping, the A/C ducts and electrical conduit in the overhead. Then fighting off the fire department guys that insisted that they were going to run a pipe into the room for sprinklers. |
#4
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On Thu, 09 Sep 2004 08:41:17 -0700, Wes Stewart
wrote: On Thu, 09 Sep 2004 15:10:28 GMT, Gary S. Idontwantspam@net wrote: [snip] |In industrial situations, I have had to deal with ground loop |problems, which are a PITA to find. Do your grounding correctly, and |you will be safer, and have an easier time of it. You should have seen the problems I had when I had the house electricians wiring up an r-f shielded room. Trying to convince them that they had to run just *one* ground wire from a single point on the room to a building ground and not the service entrance ground *and* that the wire couldn't be bare and laying on the sprinkler system piping, the A/C ducts and electrical conduit in the overhead. Then fighting off the fire department guys that insisted that they were going to run a pipe into the room for sprinklers. Most licensed electricians (in theory all of them, but I'll leave that) have a good understanding of issues related to DC and 60 Hz AC, voltages up to 480, currents up to 100 A. Once you get to higher frequencies, including RF, or to serious voltages or currents, the number of people who really understand drops off rather quickly, unfortunately as the potential problems and dangers increase. Happy trails, Gary (net.yogi.bear) ------------------------------------------------ at the 51st percentile of ursine intelligence Gary D. Schwartz, Needham, MA, USA Please reply to: garyDOTschwartzATpoboxDOTcom |
#5
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On Thu, 09 Sep 2004 08:41:17 -0700, Wes Stewart wrote:
On Thu, 09 Sep 2004 15:10:28 GMT, Gary S. Idontwantspam@net wrote: [snip] |In industrial situations, I have had to deal with ground loop |problems, which are a PITA to find. Do your grounding correctly, and |you will be safer, and have an easier time of it. You should have seen the problems I had when I had the house electricians wiring up an r-f shielded room. Trying to convince them that they had to run just *one* ground wire from a single point on the room to a building ground and not the service entrance ground *and* that the wire couldn't be bare and laying on the sprinkler system piping, the A/C ducts and electrical conduit in the overhead. Then fighting off the fire department guys that insisted that they were going to run a pipe into the room for sprinklers. Apparently the electricians only knowledge of 'loop' was in 'loophole'. |
#6
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On Thu, 09 Sep 2004 17:04:08 GMT, Walter Maxwell wrote:
|On Thu, 09 Sep 2004 08:41:17 -0700, Wes Stewart wrote: | |On Thu, 09 Sep 2004 15:10:28 GMT, Gary S. Idontwantspam@net wrote: |[snip] ||In industrial situations, I have had to deal with ground loop ||problems, which are a PITA to find. Do your grounding correctly, and ||you will be safer, and have an easier time of it. | |You should have seen the problems I had when I had the house |electricians wiring up an r-f shielded room. Trying to convince them |that they had to run just *one* ground wire from a single point on the |room to a building ground and not the service entrance ground *and* |that the wire couldn't be bare and laying on the sprinkler system |piping, the A/C ducts and electrical conduit in the overhead. | |Then fighting off the fire department guys that insisted that they |were going to run a pipe into the room for sprinklers. | |Apparently the electricians only knowledge of 'loop' was in 'loophole'. Yep. To elaborate. The building (100,000 sq ft) was constructed of tip-up concrete exterior walls and steel columns and roof trusses. A few of the columns, were dedicated ground points, complete with copper plates for wire attachement. They were bonded to the steel rebar grid in the concrete slab-on-grade floor. All of the A/C conductors into the room, neutral included, ran through some real hefty line filters that were on the outside of the room with feedthrus into a distribution box inside. On top of the room was a single copper stud for ground connection. As I said earlier, the electricians wanted to ground the room with the usual A/C distribution safety ground wire. When I said no, they needed to go to the nearest column ground, they ran a 6 AWG bare copper wire to the grounding plate. Of course the wire was in contact with everything it contacted. So when I saw this I said no, you have to run an insulated wire. So the next iteration was a single green wire. I said no, some bozo plumber (I shouldn't say this, my brother's a plumber) or HVAC guy will be up there working and the wire will be in the way and they'll cut it and my room with be a 100 or so V above ground due to all of the capacitors in the filters. I finally got my insulated wire in conduit. Then the HVAC guys wanted to run a steel duct to the room. Noooo, use an insulated collar and give me a pneumatic thermostat. Then as mentioned earlier, it was the fire department. They saw all of the handy pipes running through my feedthru panel (actually waveguide below cutoff feedthrus) and said we can just plumb in the water through one of these. Nooo, can't have a metallic connection. So they say, they can use a dielectric union. Nooo, the water in those pipes hasn't moved in 20 years and is primarily rust. When they started talking about halon I said that my widow was going to have a real good time with the millions she would get from the lawsuit. They decided that the regular sprinkler system above the shielded room was okay afterall. |
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