On Sun, 19 Sep 2004 15:01:15 -0400, "Jack Painter"
wrote:

When free people use their minds instead of letting foolish emotions be
their guide, the concept of restricting firearms from law abiding citizens
is one of the first things to go.

Hi Jack,

The D.C. sniper (a known non-law abider) got his firearm from non-law
abiding citizens out the back door of a local gun-shop here. Foolish
emotions had nothing to do with their inability to account for several
hundred missing guns they just shrugged off as bookkeeping
discrepancies. Clearly they had more guns than necessary to stay
profitable. Imagine how long your supermarket would stay in business
at that kind of employee pilfering rate.

Now, if we bring the foolish emotion issue into it, then Mr. John
Allen Muhammad, clearly an emotional person, could now simply walk up
to the counter and get more bang for his buck. And if denied, I
suppose he would have had to pay more at the back door.

James D. Martin,
James Buchanan,
Kumar Walekar,
Sarah Ramos,
Lori Ann Lewis-Rivera,
Pascal Charlot,
Woman shot, wounded,
13-year-old boy wounded,
Dean Harold Myers,
Kenneth H. Bridges,
Linda Franklin,
37-year-old man shot,
Conrad Johnson,
killed or wounded between October 2 and October 22.

Another foolish, emotional personality that appeared before committees
to argue that we retain the prohibition against assault rifles was
Reagan's Press Officer James Brady. One may say he is emotional
simply because he survived being shot (the alternative is being
un-emotionally dead).

Well, let's just mark it up to the dispassionate tenor of the
Republican Guard who have over the years jettisoned Reagan's mandates
as easily as they shrugged off the prohibition against assault
weapons. The Republican Guard has even offered laws to reduce the
liability of the local gun shop and emotional others like them that
whine they are too hard pressed by rational laws to balance their
books or lock their back doors. The example of the Russian school
debacle where the collapse of rational law has seen plenty of assault
weapons were available makes the Columbine massacre seem like a
Saturday afternoon picnic.

"In countries like the Untied States, it's
perfectly legal for members of the public
to own certain types of firearms. If you live
in such a country obtain an assault rifle
legally, preferably an AK-47 or variations"
-- Al Qaeda training manual
the Ossama seal of approval to our nation's administration

73's
Richard Clark, KB7QHC

Richard Clark wrote:
The D.C. sniper (a known non-law abider) got his firearm from non-law
abiding citizens out the back door of a local gun-shop here.

Exactly! If one advocates disarming *law-abiding citizens*,
one is siding with the *non-law abiders*. Advocating disarming
non-law abiders by creating laws that are only obeyed by law-
abiding citizens is ridiculous. We might as well create a law
making it illegal for hurricanes to hit Florida.

Hitler, Mao, and Stalin all supported strict gun control laws.
If one likes gun control laws, some of the most severe will be
found in Castro's Cuba at the present time. So Richard, if you
don't like the second amendment and want to feel really safe,
simply move to Cuba. :-)
--
73, Cecil, W5DXP


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On Sun, 19 Sep 2004 16:05:07 -0500, Cecil Moore
wrote:

Hitler, Mao, and Stalin all supported strict gun control laws.
Bush, Arrafat, the Columbian Drug Lords and Ossama do not.

"Richard Clark" wrote
"Jack Painter" wrote:

When free people use their minds instead of letting foolish emotions be
their guide, the concept of restricting firearms from law abiding
citizens
is one of the first things to go.

Hi Jack,

The D.C. sniper (a known non-law abider) got his firearm from non-law
abiding citizens out the back door of a local gun-shop here. Foolish
emotions had nothing to do with their inability to account for several
hundred missing guns they just shrugged off as bookkeeping
discrepancies. Clearly they had more guns than necessary to stay
profitable. Imagine how long your supermarket would stay in business
at that kind of employee pilfering rate.

Hi Richard, what's your point here, that more gun laws would deter crime
against gun stores? Not! Stolen guns don't react to laws making them illegal
in the first place, and neither do criminals who can smuggle tens of
millions of pounds of contraband and aliens int the country every year have
any problem, now or ever, obtaining firearms. Same of course goes for the
Ur-a-Peon's who have successfully disarmed their sniveling subjects as the
rate of violent crimes against them skyrockets. More police-state control,
such as you called "rational law" must be required for them, since disarming
the law abiders did not stop the crime waves.

Now, if we bring the foolish emotion issue into it, then Mr. John
Allen Muhammad, clearly an emotional person, could now simply walk up
to the counter and get more bang for his buck. And if denied, I
suppose he would have had to pay more at the back door.

You don't know anyone or any store that makes such illegal sales in your
city, and neither does the BATF, who harass gun store owners about their
bookeeping more than the NRC watches hopsitals to keep track of their
dangerous radioactive materials.

/snip
Another foolish, emotional personality that appeared before committees
to argue that we retain the prohibition against assault rifles was
Reagan's Press Officer James Brady. One may say he is emotional
simply because he survived being shot (the alternative is being
un-emotionally dead).

There is more emotion than you will hopefully ever know, than if the life of
a loved one was taken because they were too timid, (too emotionally
irrational) or too restricted in the ability to protect themselves from a
common or uncommon criminal, who uses firearms as a tool of their trade,
irrespective of any gun law ever enacted now or in the future. Don't confuse
free speech of Jim Brady with our right to prevent getting shot in the head
ourselves. All the cops and secret service carrying automatic weapons and
trained to spot and actually prevent such attack from succeeding failed. How
in God's name do you think anyone could be protected? Maybe your Ted Kennedy
who's armed bodyguards surround the scotch-reeking murderer 24-7 as he
lobbys for the disarmament of all law abiding citizens?

Well, let's just mark it up to the dispassionate tenor of the
Republican Guard who have over the years jettisoned Reagan's mandates
as easily as they shrugged off the prohibition against assault
weapons. The Republican Guard has even offered laws to reduce the
liability of the local gun shop and emotional others like them that
whine they are too hard pressed by rational laws to balance their
books or lock their back doors. The example of the Russian school
debacle where the collapse of rational law has seen plenty of assault
weapons were available makes the Columbine massacre seem like a
Saturday afternoon picnic.

The collapse of rational law? My friend, you mistake the iron fist of
martial law and governmental murder by edict that ruled the Soviet Union for
rational law?

The world is at war (or will come to that relaization as they die in
sufficient mass numbers) against the nation of islam, who is sworn to a new
level of their timeless hatred for all things rational and peaceful. What
happened in Russia is an act of that war, and does not reduce to technical
descriptions of the tools used to carry out the attack.

In two recent school shootings in America, it was a teacher in one case and
a student in another that ran to their cars, and retrieved legally owned
firearms that enabed them to stop the killings and subdue the attacker! No
police force, not even the iron fist of the former iron curtain could *ever*
respond to a crazy person trying to commit mass murder faster than an armed
citizenry can. Count your blessings that you have always lived in such an
armed and peaceful citizenry, with citizens who will step up to the plate to
defend your miserable and pathetic existance that relies on the bravery and
good citizenry that you lack, and would save you from the attack you spend
your life trying to prevent them from being able to do for you or their
loved ones. Just don't call yourself a citizen, not in my Country.


"In countries like the Untied States, it's
perfectly legal for members of the public
to own certain types of firearms. If you live
in such a country obtain an assault rifle
legally, preferably an AK-47 or variations"
-- Al Qaeda training manual
the Ossama seal of approval to our nation's administration

That's really sad, and I liked you a lot more when I thought you could keep
such drivel from a good argument. Surely you don't believe that Al Queda
pretended to be planning anything now or later, that would rely on
compliance with laws to accomplish. I am offended by your comment that our
government approves of Bin Laden in any way, or does anything to make it
easier for him to murder Americans. It offends the sensibilities of all
humans in fact.


73's
Richard Clark, KB7QHC

Try to pay attention to who the enemy is Richard. It is not lawful American
firearm owners who would gladly add you to the list of terrorist
organizations if you persist in subverting the rights both enumerated and
not enumerated by the Constitution. That you may continue to live as a free
man while actively subverting our Constitution is a priviledge that I wish
you did not have, but hopefully you are educable before your old age renders
that possibility moot.

Jack Painter

On Sun, 19 Sep 2004 17:53:24 -0400, "Jack Painter"
wrote:

You don't know anyone or any store that makes such illegal sales in your
city, and neither does the BATF

Hi Jack,

It is already been LONG documented:
" Bushmaster Firearms Inc. of Maine will pay $550,000, all of
which is covered by its insurance policy. And Bull's Eye Shooter
Supply, in Tacoma, will pay $2 million, the largest settlement of
its kind by a gun dealer, the Brady Center said."

I would pause to add that the "Brady" of the Brady Center has already
been dissed by the Republican Right Whiners. Clearly they would
prefer that Bull's Eye paid nothing and perhaps give Bushmaster a
rebate. And if Brady hadn't taken a bullet for Reagan, what kind of
spin would they have to offer? A marksmanship medal for Hinkley?

"Federal agents traced the weapon used in a number of the
shootings, a .223-caliber XM 14 Bushmaster rifle, back to Bull's
Eye."

The linkage was proven through target practice shells obtained at the
sniper's former address - HERE locally.

"The shop had problems for several years. Records show that Bull's
Eye could not account for the sales of 238 weapons"

"Its security was so abysmal that it appears that a 17-year-old,
Malvo, was able to stroll into the store and stroll out holding a
3-foot-long assault rifle," Lowy said. "And Bull's Eye didn't even
know the gun was missing until the police called several weeks
later to tell them it was found in the trunk of the snipers' car."

Copyright © 2004 The Seattle Times Company

Let's see, you cannot catch a kid walking out with a 3 foot assault
rifle every day of the week for a year (we will skip holidays and
weekends when they are more diligent). Yeah, right, that's how it
happened! Shoplifters every day for a year and no one notices it at
the till, or in the records, or in the stock room. Clearly a society
of profitable retards if we are to believe that.

If Safeway did business like that, they would fold in a week.

73's
Richard Clark, KB7QHC

On Sun, 19 Sep 2004 15:01:15 -0400, "Jack Painter"
wrote:


"Reg Edwards" wrote

The USA has wide variations in climate and tree population. Thoughtful
citizens ought to concentrate their minds on hurricanes, twisters,
atmospheric pollution and gun laws. 100-watt transmitters and G5RV's can
look after themselves. ;o)
---
Reg.

I assure you we are concentrating very carfefully, Reg! Last week we had
about 20,000 gun laws on the books, counting all federal and state laws.
This weekend we have one less federal gun law, and soon there may be less.
When free people use their minds instead of letting foolish emotions be
their guide, the concept of restricting firearms from law abiding citizens
is one of the first things to go.

Jack, please explain why we need battlefield weapons in a civilian
society.

How many times do you need to shoot that beautiful deer before you
drag it to the sausage maker?

bob
k5qwg



Btw, so far my dipole hasn't set the pine trees on fire, or been torn down
by a hurricane, despite three attempts by them so far this year ;-)

73,

Jack

"Richard Clark" wrote
"Jack Painter"
wrote:

You don't know anyone or any store that makes such illegal sales in your
city, and neither does the BATF

Hi Jack,

It is already been LONG documented:
" Bushmaster Firearms Inc. of Maine will pay $550,000, all of
which is covered by its insurance policy. And Bull's Eye Shooter
Supply, in Tacoma, will pay $2 million, the largest settlement of
its kind by a gun dealer, the Brady Center said."

Hi Richard, this is exactly why there must be a stop brought to the assanine
litigious fervor that ambulance chasing loafs like John Edwards bring
against this country's honest businesses every day. Bushmaster's insurance
paid that token of "shut-up idiot and go away" ransom, not Bushmaster. If
left to Bushmaster, it would have gone to a very expensive trial and in the
end, like every other case in history (except one communist judge in NY) it
would have been dismissed. Does the Brady center tell you that? Look it up
before you listen to any more of that dribble that an intelligent and worldy
man such as your self has no business falling for. Which is again, why we
must make the law read that *losers* in assanine cases like that pay *all*
the legal bills. Either that or else ban lawsuits against gunmakers. You
pursue these unconstitutional bans against guns and gun owners, well then
we'll ban your lawsuits. Have it you way, you're going to make enemies of
yourselves either way and the rest of us will go on with our lives. Even
defending yours.

/dribble snipped/

"The shop had problems for several years. Records show that Bull's
Eye could not account for the sales of 238 weapons"

"Its security was so abysmal that it appears that a 17-year-old,
Malvo, was able to stroll into the store and stroll out holding a
3-foot-long assault rifle," Lowy said. "And Bull's Eye didn't even
know the gun was missing until the police called several weeks
later to tell them it was found in the trunk of the snipers' car."

Copyright © 2004 The Seattle Times Company

Gee what kind of idiots do you grow in Seattle? It's liberal-land for crying
out loud, don't any of you folks obey the law? We take gun shop owners to
jail for less than that in the East, and ruin their lives for trying to make
an honest living most of the time.


73's
Richard Clark, KB7QHC

73,

Jack

"Bob Miller" wrote

"Jack Painter" wrote:


"Reg Edwards" wrote

The USA has wide variations in climate and tree population. Thoughtful
citizens ought to concentrate their minds on hurricanes, twisters,
atmospheric pollution and gun laws. 100-watt transmitters and G5RV's
can
look after themselves. ;o)
---
Reg.

I assure you we are concentrating very carfefully, Reg! Last week we had
about 20,000 gun laws on the books, counting all federal and state laws.
This weekend we have one less federal gun law, and soon there may be
less.
When free people use their minds instead of letting foolish emotions be
their guide, the concept of restricting firearms from law abiding
citizens
is one of the first things to go.

Jack, please explain why we need battlefield weapons in a civilian
society.

How many times do you need to shoot that beautiful deer before you
drag it to the sausage maker?

bob
k5qwg

Hello Bob, whether I used a bow and arrow, a single shot musket, or an
autoloader Remmington .308 rifle to take a deer is not the point. Self
defense and American's right to keep and bear arms is not about hunting.
Nowhere in the Constitution do any of the founding fathers who adamantly
supported our permanent right to keep and bear arms, mention "hunting" or
"sport".

Radio is regulated because the airwaves belong to the pubic. Use of a radio
for survival (of life or property I will add) is not regulated in any way.
Firearms are regulated because it is reasonable to restrict felons (ie: not
peaceable citizenry) access to them, the same as we restrict the mentally or
physically incapable or repeat offender drunks from driving an automobile on
our public roads. But use of a firearm for self-defense is not regulated by
any Constitutional-supported law, although some states make saving your own
life a near crime. In Britain it *is* a crime to defend your life *or*
property with a firearm, and there are recent cases to prove that is the
intent of the crown to make it so. Please don't pretend there is a
legislature who upholds anything in Britain. If it were not for a very few
brave men left there, the whole place would just fold to muslims and dutch
pedophiles the way the rest of europe already has. To our brave friends in
Britain, come to America, we await you with open "arms".

So Bob, whether an american owns a pistol, muskey, sport rifle, hunting
rifle, assault rifle or sausage maker, it's none of your damn business
anymore than your choice of radio manufacture or your ability to fix it or
improve it is mine.

73,

Jack





Btw, so far my dipole hasn't set the pine trees on fire, or been torn
down
by a hurricane, despite three attempts by them so far this year ;-)

73,

Jack

Richard Clark wrote:

Cecil Moore wrote:
Hitler, Mao, and Stalin all supported strict gun control laws.

Bush, Arrafat, the Columbian Drug Lords and Ossama do not.

Richard, if your wife/mother/sister/daughter were being raped
and you could stop it with a gun, what would you do? Lay down
the gun and initiate touchy-feely negotiations with the rapist?
--
73, Cecil, W5DXP



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Radio is regulated because the airwaves belong to the pubic.

And because they are a very finite resource.

Use of a radio for survival (of life or property I will add) is not
regulated in any way.

Specifically and unconditionally permitted by the FCC.