Ed Price wrote:


"Fractenna" wrote in message
...

Dear OM,

I am sorry that you take personal offense; I will be happy to state
why this
was posted:

1) it has been an ongoing topic on this NG for a long time, and now we
have
final resolution;
2) I did not expect nor require anyone to respond, ergo the 'troll
factor' is
not an issue;
3) The FCC has taken careful and measured steps to assure that US
amateurs
remain with the enjoyment of the HF bands, given the sharing of
spectrum with
BPL.
4)It is the very best scenario for all involved. That is definitely worth
gloating over.

Wishing you the best,

Chip N1IR



The "very best solution" would be to allow the utilities to use their
extensive system of power poles to string a fiberoptic cable to
residences (either direct, or maybe the last half-mile as an RF node).
If the power companies had spent their lobbying and legal money on
installing this base, a lot of people would now have high-speed net
connections.

Ed, if my understanding is correct, the power companies will indeed be
stringing fiber optic cables. There will be one going right by your
house if you are blessed to live in an bpl blessed neighborhood. THe
infrastructure must be built. I think there is an impression that the
power companies are just going to alligator clip a bpl signal on the
lines at the generating plant. Power lines are fair at delivering low
frequency and high power. At HF they aren't so hot.

So while you have the leaky, degraded signal with the dubious
convenience of being placed from the HV lines to the other side of your
line transformer (and let's just hope that has been worked out to be
safe) wouldn't it just make more sense to get the fast signal from the
proper source? Going right by your house....

BPL is the industry equivalent of putting bicycle tires on a top fuel
dragster.

A triumph of politics over technology.

- Mike KB3EIA -

On Fri, 15 Oct 2004 21:08:32 -0400, Mike Coslo
wrote:

[snip]

| A triumph of politics over technology.
|
Bingo!

"Mike Coslo" wrote in message
...


Ed Price wrote:


"Fractenna" wrote in message
...


SNIP

3) The FCC has taken careful and measured steps to assure that US
amateurs
remain with the enjoyment of the HF bands, given the sharing of spectrum
with
BPL.
4)It is the very best scenario for all involved. That is definitely
worth
gloating over.

Wishing you the best,

Chip N1IR



The "very best solution" would be to allow the utilities to use their
extensive system of power poles to string a fiberoptic cable to
residences (either direct, or maybe the last half-mile as an RF node). If
the power companies had spent their lobbying and legal money on
installing this base, a lot of people would now have high-speed net
connections.

Ed, if my understanding is correct, the power companies will indeed be
stringing fiber optic cables. There will be one going right by your house
if you are blessed to live in an bpl blessed neighborhood. THe
infrastructure must be built. I think there is an impression that the
power companies are just going to alligator clip a bpl signal on the lines
at the generating plant. Power lines are fair at delivering low frequency
and high power. At HF they aren't so hot.

So while you have the leaky, degraded signal with the dubious convenience
of being placed from the HV lines to the other side of your line
transformer (and let's just hope that has been worked out to be safe)
wouldn't it just make more sense to get the fast signal from the proper
source? Going right by your house....

BPL is the industry equivalent of putting bicycle tires on a top fuel
dragster.

A triumph of politics over technology.

- Mike KB3EIA -



I agree that the power companies can't couple to their intermediate
distribution lines, since coupling across the next set of step-down
transformers is poor. I was thinking that the power companies will have to
run fiberoptic to the customer side of each of their lowest-level
distribution transformers. (As an example, in my case, my residential power
feed is a 240 VAC line that is parallel shared with about a dozen other
residences. This 240 VAC is created from a 16 kV to 240 V transformer.)

The power service is already "right to my home." OTOH, the 16 kV
distribution feeds are not always "running right past your home." (True, the
16 kV lines do run past some homes, in order to get to an efficient feed
point for the 16 kV to 240 V transformer. Some people have their power flow
"past" them, at 16 kV, only to come "back" at them at 240 V.)

BPL, as I understand it, will be radiating from a huge number of these 240 V
residential clusters. Since the power company will have to use fiberoptic to
get to their step-down transformers, it seems like they should use
fiberoptic for the last leg too. (And then they wouldn't need a
fiberoptic-to-240 V coupler at the transformer nor the 240 V-to-coax coupler
at each residence.)

Ed
wb6wsn

On Sat, 16 Oct 2004 09:26:08 -0700, "Ed Price"
wrote:


"Mike Coslo" wrote in message
...


Ed Price wrote:


"Fractenna" wrote in message
...


SNIP

snip
Ed, if my understanding is correct, the power companies will indeed be
stringing fiber optic cables. There will be one going right by your house
if you are blessed to live in an bpl blessed neighborhood. THe
infrastructure must be built. I think there is an impression that the
power companies are just going to alligator clip a bpl signal on the lines
at the generating plant.

It's my understanding they have to not only run the fiber optic cable,
but "reclip" it to the power line every mile or so. In the end they
are basically running a fiber optic feed, but the power line gets it
into the customer's home or business.

I'd really like to see a definitive write up on just how the
infrastructure works and the protocol.

As has been mentioned a number of times, Both Europe and Japan tried
BPL and gave up. Possibly it'll come back to haunt them, but it
sounds like they've already found it an unsatisfactory means for high
speed Internet connections.

Roger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member)
(N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair)
www.rogerhalstead.com

Power lines are fair at delivering low frequency
and high power. At HF they aren't so hot.

So while you have the leaky, degraded signal with the dubious convenience
of being placed from the HV lines to the other side of your line
transformer (and let's just hope that has been worked out to be safe)
wouldn't it just make more sense to get the fast signal from the proper
source? Going right by your house....

BPL is the industry equivalent of putting bicycle tires on a top fuel
dragster.

A triumph of politics over technology.

- Mike KB3EIA -



I agree that the power companies can't couple to their intermediate
distribution lines, since coupling across the next set of step-down
transformers is poor. I was thinking that the power companies will have to
run fiberoptic to the customer side of each of their lowest-level
distribution transformers. (As an example, in my case, my residential power
feed is a 240 VAC line that is parallel shared with about a dozen other
residences. This 240 VAC is created from a 16 kV to 240 V transformer.)

The power service is already "right to my home." OTOH, the 16 kV
distribution feeds are not always "running right past your home." (True, the
16 kV lines do run past some homes, in order to get to an efficient feed
point for the 16 kV to 240 V transformer. Some people have their power flow
"past" them, at 16 kV, only to come "back" at them at 240 V.)

BPL, as I understand it, will be radiating from a huge number of these 240 V
residential clusters. Since the power company will have to use fiberoptic to
get to their step-down transformers, it seems like they should use
fiberoptic for the last leg too. (And then they wouldn't need a
fiberoptic-to-240 V coupler at the transformer nor the 240 V-to-coax coupler
at each residence.)

Ed
wb6wsn

Hi Roger, we're really too close to need the internet--we should be using smoke
signals instead. I'm in Mt. Pleasant, 26 mi from you in Midland. I was licensed
in 1933 as W8KHK, and from then until 1940 I was the only ham in Isabella
County. I live in DeLand, FL from Nov 1 to May 1, and in Mt. P the rest of the
time. We should meet some day. Did you know the late Paul Woodland, W8EEY? He
was originally from Alma, but moved to Midland, Bookness St off Eastman, after
WW2.

I'll be going through Midland tomorrow to pick up my XYL at MBS, but won't have
time then to make contact with you. Guess it'll have to be next year after we
return in May.

C ya later,

Walt Maxwell, W2DU

Roger wrote:

On Sat, 16 Oct 2004 09:26:08 -0700, "Ed Price"
wrote:


"Mike Coslo" wrote in message
...


Ed Price wrote:


"Fractenna" wrote in message
...


SNIP


snip

Ed, if my understanding is correct, the power companies will indeed be
stringing fiber optic cables. There will be one going right by your house
if you are blessed to live in an bpl blessed neighborhood. THe
infrastructure must be built. I think there is an impression that the
power companies are just going to alligator clip a bpl signal on the lines
at the generating plant.


It's my understanding they have to not only run the fiber optic cable,
but "reclip" it to the power line every mile or so. In the end they
are basically running a fiber optic feed, but the power line gets it
into the customer's home or business.

Yup. The Power lines are really great for mushing up a digital signal.
Round off those edges and lotsa reflections. The fiber will be there.

What is the attraction of getting your digital signal on your
powerline? Heck if I had a laptop, it means I have to connect it to the
wall again - unless I run wireless - and then I might as well run wi-fi.


I'd really like to see a definitive write up on just how the
infrastructure works and the protocol.

As has been mentioned a number of times, Both Europe and Japan tried
BPL and gave up. Possibly it'll come back to haunt them, but it
sounds like they've already found it an unsatisfactory means for high
speed Internet connections.

The haunting will be on our end, especially if part 15 is rewritten to
accomodate BPL. BPL will fail, but part 15 will go on until it is rewritten.

- Mike KB3EIA -