Ah, but not wiser. Sad.


I agree with you, I am no wiser. But I've been told many times, over many
years, that I'm precocious. You should be happy that I plateau'ed early:-)

I'm enjoying the wisdom immensely now that I have the grey hairs to go with it.
Not a cause for sadness but celebration, if any:-)

Thanks for thinking of me and best wishes.

Chip N1IR

And they're going to supply me with high speed Internet over the same
wires?

Those 60kV twisted pair lines are on order

--
KC6ETE Dave's Engineering Page, www.dvanhorn.org
Microcontroller Consultant, specializing in Atmel AVR

Hi Roger, we're really too close to need the internet--we should be using smoke
signals instead. I'm in Mt. Pleasant, 26 mi from you in Midland. I was licensed
in 1933 as W8KHK, and from then until 1940 I was the only ham in Isabella
County. I live in DeLand, FL from Nov 1 to May 1, and in Mt. P the rest of the
time. We should meet some day. Did you know the late Paul Woodland, W8EEY? He
was originally from Alma, but moved to Midland, Bookness St off Eastman, after
WW2.

I'll be going through Midland tomorrow to pick up my XYL at MBS, but won't have
time then to make contact with you. Guess it'll have to be next year after we
return in May.

C ya later,

Walt Maxwell, W2DU

On Sun, 17 Oct 2004 16:47:31 -0500, "Dave VanHorn"
wrote:

| And they're going to supply me with high speed Internet over the same
| wires?
|
|Those 60kV twisted pair lines are on order

Could be

Back in the 80's, per my specifications, my employer bought some
partial-discharge (corona) test equipment from the James Biddle
Company.

I took a one week long course at their facility on the theory and
practice of partial discharge testing. There were about a dozen
students from various companies in attendance.

One of them was a fellow from Canada who had owned his own cable
manufacturing company, sold it and was then a consultant for the
company. They manufactured HV coaxial cable for power transmission.
I learned that many islands get their power from mainlands via
underwater lines.

Today, coax lines rated to 400 KV are not uncommon. Keep that in mind
if you want to QRO

Roger wrote:

On Sat, 16 Oct 2004 09:26:08 -0700, "Ed Price"
wrote:


"Mike Coslo" wrote in message
...


Ed Price wrote:


"Fractenna" wrote in message
...


SNIP


snip

Ed, if my understanding is correct, the power companies will indeed be
stringing fiber optic cables. There will be one going right by your house
if you are blessed to live in an bpl blessed neighborhood. THe
infrastructure must be built. I think there is an impression that the
power companies are just going to alligator clip a bpl signal on the lines
at the generating plant.


It's my understanding they have to not only run the fiber optic cable,
but "reclip" it to the power line every mile or so. In the end they
are basically running a fiber optic feed, but the power line gets it
into the customer's home or business.

Yup. The Power lines are really great for mushing up a digital signal.
Round off those edges and lotsa reflections. The fiber will be there.

What is the attraction of getting your digital signal on your
powerline? Heck if I had a laptop, it means I have to connect it to the
wall again - unless I run wireless - and then I might as well run wi-fi.


I'd really like to see a definitive write up on just how the
infrastructure works and the protocol.

As has been mentioned a number of times, Both Europe and Japan tried
BPL and gave up. Possibly it'll come back to haunt them, but it
sounds like they've already found it an unsatisfactory means for high
speed Internet connections.

The haunting will be on our end, especially if part 15 is rewritten to
accomodate BPL. BPL will fail, but part 15 will go on until it is rewritten.

- Mike KB3EIA -

Fractenna wrote:

Dear OM,

I am sorry that you take personal offense; I will be happy to state why this
was posted:

1) it has been an ongoing topic on this NG for a long time, and now we have
final resolution;

Final resolution? Not even close. Part 15 still needs to be rewritten.

2) I did not expect nor require anyone to respond, ergo the 'troll factor' is
not an issue;
3) The FCC has taken careful and measured steps to assure that US amateurs
remain with the enjoyment of the HF bands, given the sharing of spectrum with
BPL.
4)It is the very best scenario for all involved. That is definitely worth
gloating over.

It isn't all about the amateurs.

There is money to be made. Equipment to build, systems to map out and
fiber to run. And in the end, when BPL fails, there will be class action
lawsuits. But in the interim, there was money to be made.

We don't have to worry about gloating, or Hams or whatever. Too much of
the existing infrastructure will interfere with BPL. The power companies
will have to repair this infrastructure, which many are loathe to do
(see F.C.C. enforcement actions) Too many places that will support BPL
at a profit are already served by faster and more reliable systems. And
the rural areas, which BPL was supposed to service admirably, don't have
the population density to run that fiber to.

It isn't the Hams, it is poor technology coupled with a bad business model.

Now if someone wanted to run fiber past my house, and allow me access
to it at what I'm paying now for cable.... *then* I'd be interested!

- Mike KB3EIA -

On 15 Oct 2004 22:57:29 GMT, (Fractenna) wrote:

BPL is simply a poor technical solution, and is an interim communications
step that should be bypassed.

Why wait? People have things to say and see right now.

Ultimately, all telecom systems transition. BPL has the good fortune of having
an infrastructure and a need right now; tomorrow; and for some time to come.

Seize the day! Solve a pressing problem. BPL looks very promising.

That is not exactly what the Technology News has to say
http://www.technewsworld.com/story/37378.html
They basically say it doesn't look promising as a business model and
the infrastructure isn't in place to use it yet, except for a few test
sites. It's inefficient, expensive to install, and is least likely to
serve the sparsely settled rural areas for which it's being touted.

Roger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member)
(N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair)
www.rogerhalstead.com

73,
Chip N1IR

Fractenna wrote:

Dear OM,

I am sorry that you take personal offense; I will be happy to state why
this
was posted:

1) it has been an ongoing topic on this NG for a long time, and now we have
final resolution;

Final resolution? Not even close. Part 15 still needs to be rewritten.

2) I did not expect nor require anyone to respond, ergo the 'troll factor'
is
not an issue;
3) The FCC has taken careful and measured steps to assure that US amateurs
remain with the enjoyment of the HF bands, given the sharing of spectrum
with
BPL.
4)It is the very best scenario for all involved. That is definitely worth
gloating over.

It isn't all about the amateurs.

There is money to be made. Equipment to build, systems to map out and
fiber to run. And in the end, when BPL fails, there will be class action
lawsuits. But in the interim, there was money to be made.

We don't have to worry about gloating, or Hams or whatever. Too much of

the existing infrastructure will interfere with BPL. The power companies
will have to repair this infrastructure, which many are loathe to do
(see F.C.C. enforcement actions) Too many places that will support BPL
at a profit are already served by faster and more reliable systems. And
the rural areas, which BPL was supposed to service admirably, don't have
the population density to run that fiber to.

It isn't the Hams, it is poor technology coupled with a bad business
model.

Now if someone wanted to run fiber past my house, and allow me access
to it at what I'm paying now for cable.... *then* I'd be interested!

- Mike KB3EIA -

Hi Mike,

Although I disagree with you, it's nice to see thoughtful arguments, as opposed
to 'let's kill the technology' diatribes.

73,
Chip N1IR

That is not exactly what the Technology News has to say
http://www.technewsworld.com/story/37378.html
They basically say it doesn't look promising as a business model and
the infrastructure isn't in place to use it yet, except for a few test
sites. It's inefficient, expensive to install, and is least likely to
serve the sparsely settled rural areas for which it's being touted.

Roger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member)
(N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair)
www.rogerhalstead.com

73,
Chip N1IR


If all the consultants had got info right--especially the ones who love to talk
in the press-- then you and I would probably be using technologies that died
miserably, which they touted as god's gift..

It's a big market and there are lots of ways to play. BPL has a good shot and
will undoubtedly have a worthwhile niche.

As someone who deals with business cases--daily--I find it suddenly amusing
that many hams--present company aside-- think they know anything much about it.
I can't wait to hear conversations on 75M about 'entry barriers' and 'crossing
the chasm' and 'risk management'. Sure beats 'how's the weather?'

73,
Chip N1IR

3) The FCC has taken careful and measured steps to assure that US amateurs
remain with the enjoyment of the HF bands, given the sharing of spectrum with
BPL.

What spectrum is to be shared? The BPL advocates are asking the FCC to
relax radiation limits. How is that sharing?