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  #11   Report Post  
Old July 26th 17, 10:19 AM posted to uk.radio.amateur,rec.radio.amateur.antenna
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First recorded activity by RadioBanter: Mar 2017
Posts: 96
Default Full wave antennae on 137kHz?

On 25/07/2017 23:09, wrote:
In rec.radio.amateur.antenna Gareth's Downstairs Computer wrote:
On 25/07/2017 22:07,
wrote:
In rec.radio.amateur.antenna Gareth's Downstairs Computer wrote:
On 25/07/2017 20:04,
wrote:
In rec.radio.amateur.antenna Gareth's Downstairs Computer wrote:
Drove onto the field on Tuesday and was dismayed to
see a big banner marked Tomlinson, which portended
a bum job, but it turned out to be a scorcher being
a fence judge at the Dauntsey horse trials.

Taking my cue from the coupling loop that feeds a
mag loop antenna, and sitting pretty much under
the 400kV pylon line, I wondered about the possibility
of using a loop to couple into the electricity grid and
so giving the equivalent of a Beverage at 137kHz?

In most places using someone else's property without permission is concidered
a bad thing to do.


How do you prevent your transmissions from passing through the
airspace of the countless millions whose permission you have not sought?

A very different thing than "using a loop to couple into the electricity grid".


Pretty much the same; using others' property to radiate.


Not at all.



Well, we've both made our positions clear and there is no common
ground between us. Let's leave it there.


  #12   Report Post  
Old July 26th 17, 05:58 PM posted to uk.radio.amateur,rec.radio.amateur.antenna
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First recorded activity by RadioBanter: Jun 2006
Posts: 1,883
Default Full wave antennae on 137kHz?

In rec.radio.amateur.antenna Gareth's Downstairs Computer wrote:
On 25/07/2017 23:09, wrote:
In rec.radio.amateur.antenna Gareth's Downstairs Computer wrote:
On 25/07/2017 22:07,
wrote:
In rec.radio.amateur.antenna Gareth's Downstairs Computer wrote:
On 25/07/2017 20:04,
wrote:
In rec.radio.amateur.antenna Gareth's Downstairs Computer wrote:
Drove onto the field on Tuesday and was dismayed to
see a big banner marked Tomlinson, which portended
a bum job, but it turned out to be a scorcher being
a fence judge at the Dauntsey horse trials.

Taking my cue from the coupling loop that feeds a
mag loop antenna, and sitting pretty much under
the 400kV pylon line, I wondered about the possibility
of using a loop to couple into the electricity grid and
so giving the equivalent of a Beverage at 137kHz?

In most places using someone else's property without permission is concidered
a bad thing to do.


How do you prevent your transmissions from passing through the
airspace of the countless millions whose permission you have not sought?

A very different thing than "using a loop to couple into the electricity grid".


Pretty much the same; using others' property to radiate.


Not at all.



Well, we've both made our positions clear and there is no common
ground between us. Let's leave it there.


Yeah, right, using my own antennas on my own land is just the same as
going onto the utility easment and setting up equipment to use the utilities
equipment.

--
Jim Pennino
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Old July 26th 17, 06:38 PM posted to rec.radio.amateur.antenna
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First recorded activity by RadioBanter: Mar 2008
Posts: 619
Default Full wave antennae on 137kHz?

On Wed, 26 Jul 2017, Jim H wrote:

On Tue, 25 Jul 2017 13:58:27 -0500, in ,
Bob Wilson wrote:

On 7/20/2017 2:14 PM, Gareth's Downstairs Computer wrote:
Drove onto the field on Tuesday and was dismayed to
see a big banner marked Tomlinson, which portended
a bum job, but it turned out to be a scorcher being
a fence judge at the Dauntsey horse trials.

Taking my cue from the coupling loop that feeds a
mag loop antenna, and sitting pretty much under
the 400kV pylon line, I wondered about the possibility
of using a loop to couple into the electricity grid and
so giving the equivalent of a Beverage at 137kHz?

There is a lot yet to be fully understood about access to the LF bands
in the US. But if you are under a HV line, they might well be using the
line for carrying control signals for the power grid. The technology,
PLC, doesn't play nicely with ham usage.

How do you find whether a power line is using PLC? For some reason you
can't find anywhere a list of places that are OK, or that are not OK.
Instead you have go to a website and ask, and wait to be told yes or no.
So we (the hams) are in second place when it comes to sending
information over these lines.

(There is a fairly new line at something like 250KV close to my back
yard. I don't yet know whether it is carrying PLC.)
Bob Wilson, WA9D



As far as I know, in the USA we only have to inquire before operating
if we're located within 1 km of a power line.

The only hams that can use those LF bands in the US have special
permission, like the exemption given to early SSTV experimenters.

The ARRL had a notice just a few weeks ago about how the LF bands are
otherwise off limits until some issues have been worked out. It's related
to informing the power company or something like that. But it's not in
place, so the bands can't yet be used without that special authorization.
I'm not even sure if the FCC is issuing more of them.

We have the bands here in Canada though.

Michael

  #14   Report Post  
Old July 26th 17, 06:48 PM posted to uk.radio.amateur,rec.radio.amateur.antenna
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First recorded activity by RadioBanter: Mar 2017
Posts: 96
Default Full wave antennae on 137kHz?

On 26/07/2017 17:58, wrote:
In rec.radio.amateur.antenna Gareth's Downstairs Computer wrote:
On 25/07/2017 23:09,
wrote:
In rec.radio.amateur.antenna Gareth's Downstairs Computer wrote:
On 25/07/2017 22:07,
wrote:
In rec.radio.amateur.antenna Gareth's Downstairs Computer wrote:
On 25/07/2017 20:04,
wrote:
In rec.radio.amateur.antenna Gareth's Downstairs Computer wrote:
Drove onto the field on Tuesday and was dismayed to
see a big banner marked Tomlinson, which portended
a bum job, but it turned out to be a scorcher being
a fence judge at the Dauntsey horse trials.

Taking my cue from the coupling loop that feeds a
mag loop antenna, and sitting pretty much under
the 400kV pylon line, I wondered about the possibility
of using a loop to couple into the electricity grid and
so giving the equivalent of a Beverage at 137kHz?

In most places using someone else's property without permission is concidered
a bad thing to do.


How do you prevent your transmissions from passing through the
airspace of the countless millions whose permission you have not sought?

A very different thing than "using a loop to couple into the electricity grid".


Pretty much the same; using others' property to radiate.

Not at all.



Well, we've both made our positions clear and there is no common
ground between us. Let's leave it there.


Yeah, right, using my own antennas on my own land is just the same as
going onto the utility easment and setting up equipment to use the utilities
equipment.

ITYM, "antennae"

  #15   Report Post  
Old July 26th 17, 07:00 PM posted to rec.radio.amateur.antenna
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First recorded activity by RadioBanter: Mar 2017
Posts: 96
Default Full wave antennae on 137kHz?

On 26/07/2017 16:33, Jim H wrote:
On Tue, 25 Jul 2017 13:58:27 -0500, in ,
Bob Wilson wrote:

On 7/20/2017 2:14 PM, Gareth's Downstairs Computer wrote:
Drove onto the field on Tuesday and was dismayed to
see a big banner marked Tomlinson, which portended
a bum job, but it turned out to be a scorcher being
a fence judge at the Dauntsey horse trials.

Taking my cue from the coupling loop that feeds a
mag loop antenna, and sitting pretty much under
the 400kV pylon line, I wondered about the possibility
of using a loop to couple into the electricity grid and
so giving the equivalent of a Beverage at 137kHz?

There is a lot yet to be fully understood about access to the LF bands
in the US. But if you are under a HV line, they might well be using the
line for carrying control signals for the power grid. The technology,
PLC, doesn't play nicely with ham usage.

How do you find whether a power line is using PLC? For some reason you
can't find anywhere a list of places that are OK, or that are not OK.
Instead you have go to a website and ask, and wait to be told yes or no.
So we (the hams) are in second place when it comes to sending
information over these lines.

(There is a fairly new line at something like 250KV close to my back
yard. I don't yet know whether it is carrying PLC.)
Bob Wilson, WA9D



As far as I know, in the USA we only have to inquire before operating
if we're located within 1 km of a power line.


Whereas here in Brit we have restrictions within 1/2 mile of any aerodrome.



  #16   Report Post  
Old July 26th 17, 07:24 PM posted to uk.radio.amateur,rec.radio.amateur.antenna
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First recorded activity by RadioBanter: Jun 2006
Posts: 1,883
Default Full wave antennae on 137kHz?

In rec.radio.amateur.antenna Gareth's Downstairs Computer wrote:
On 26/07/2017 17:58, wrote:
In rec.radio.amateur.antenna Gareth's Downstairs Computer wrote:
On 25/07/2017 23:09,
wrote:
In rec.radio.amateur.antenna Gareth's Downstairs Computer wrote:
On 25/07/2017 22:07,
wrote:
In rec.radio.amateur.antenna Gareth's Downstairs Computer wrote:
On 25/07/2017 20:04,
wrote:
In rec.radio.amateur.antenna Gareth's Downstairs Computer wrote:
Drove onto the field on Tuesday and was dismayed to
see a big banner marked Tomlinson, which portended
a bum job, but it turned out to be a scorcher being
a fence judge at the Dauntsey horse trials.

Taking my cue from the coupling loop that feeds a
mag loop antenna, and sitting pretty much under
the 400kV pylon line, I wondered about the possibility
of using a loop to couple into the electricity grid and
so giving the equivalent of a Beverage at 137kHz?

In most places using someone else's property without permission is concidered
a bad thing to do.


How do you prevent your transmissions from passing through the
airspace of the countless millions whose permission you have not sought?

A very different thing than "using a loop to couple into the electricity grid".


Pretty much the same; using others' property to radiate.

Not at all.



Well, we've both made our positions clear and there is no common
ground between us. Let's leave it there.


Yeah, right, using my own antennas on my own land is just the same as
going onto the utility easment and setting up equipment to use the utilities
equipment.

ITYM, "antennae"


It is "antennas" for the things connected to radios and "antennae" for
things connected to insects and arthopods even in the UK, not just in the
US, according to Collins English Dictionary.


--
Jim Pennino
  #17   Report Post  
Old July 26th 17, 07:38 PM posted to uk.radio.amateur,rec.radio.amateur.antenna
external usenet poster
 
First recorded activity by RadioBanter: May 2017
Posts: 22
Default Full wave antennae on 137kHz?

In message , Gareth's Downstairs Computer
writes



ITYM, "antennae"

No he doesn't.
--
Ian
  #18   Report Post  
Old July 26th 17, 08:05 PM posted to rec.radio.amateur.antenna
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First recorded activity by RadioBanter: May 2017
Posts: 22
Default Full wave antennae on 137kHz?

In message , Gareth's Downstairs Computer
writes
On 26/07/2017 16:33, Jim H wrote:
On Tue, 25 Jul 2017 13:58:27 -0500, in ,
Bob Wilson wrote:

On 7/20/2017 2:14 PM, Gareth's Downstairs Computer wrote:
Drove onto the field on Tuesday and was dismayed to
see a big banner marked Tomlinson, which portended
a bum job, but it turned out to be a scorcher being
a fence judge at the Dauntsey horse trials.

Taking my cue from the coupling loop that feeds a
mag loop antenna, and sitting pretty much under
the 400kV pylon line, I wondered about the possibility
of using a loop to couple into the electricity grid and
so giving the equivalent of a Beverage at 137kHz?

There is a lot yet to be fully understood about access to the LF bands
in the US. But if you are under a HV line, they might well be using the
line for carrying control signals for the power grid. The technology,
PLC, doesn't play nicely with ham usage.

How do you find whether a power line is using PLC? For some reason you
can't find anywhere a list of places that are OK, or that are not OK.
Instead you have go to a website and ask, and wait to be told yes or no.
So we (the hams) are in second place when it comes to sending
information over these lines.

(There is a fairly new line at something like 250KV close to my back
yard. I don't yet know whether it is carrying PLC.)
Bob Wilson, WA9D

As far as I know, in the USA we only have to inquire before
operating
if we're located within 1 km of a power line.


Whereas here in Brit we have restrictions within 1/2 mile of any aerodrome.

But that's a restriction on antenna height (40 feet, I believe - but as
I don't live within 1/2 mile of an airfield, I haven't checked lately).
--
Ian
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Old July 26th 17, 09:16 PM posted to uk.radio.amateur,rec.radio.amateur.antenna
external usenet poster
 
First recorded activity by RadioBanter: Mar 2017
Posts: 96
Default Full wave antennae on 137kHz?

On 26/07/2017 19:24, wrote:
In rec.radio.amateur.antenna Gareth's Downstairs Computer wrote:
On 26/07/2017 17:58,
wrote:
In rec.radio.amateur.antenna Gareth's Downstairs Computer wrote:
On 25/07/2017 23:09,
wrote:
In rec.radio.amateur.antenna Gareth's Downstairs Computer wrote:
On 25/07/2017 22:07,
wrote:
In rec.radio.amateur.antenna Gareth's Downstairs Computer wrote:
On 25/07/2017 20:04,
wrote:
In rec.radio.amateur.antenna Gareth's Downstairs Computer wrote:
Drove onto the field on Tuesday and was dismayed to
see a big banner marked Tomlinson, which portended
a bum job, but it turned out to be a scorcher being
a fence judge at the Dauntsey horse trials.

Taking my cue from the coupling loop that feeds a
mag loop antenna, and sitting pretty much under
the 400kV pylon line, I wondered about the possibility
of using a loop to couple into the electricity grid and
so giving the equivalent of a Beverage at 137kHz?

In most places using someone else's property without permission is concidered
a bad thing to do.


How do you prevent your transmissions from passing through the
airspace of the countless millions whose permission you have not sought?

A very different thing than "using a loop to couple into the electricity grid".


Pretty much the same; using others' property to radiate.

Not at all.



Well, we've both made our positions clear and there is no common
ground between us. Let's leave it there.

Yeah, right, using my own antennas on my own land is just the same as
going onto the utility easment and setting up equipment to use the utilities
equipment.

ITYM, "antennae"


It is "antennas" for the things connected to radios and "antennae" for
things connected to insects and arthopods even in the UK, not just in the
US, according to Collins English Dictionary.



Try a dictionary for grownups such as the OED and not one
targetted at disuptive children.

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Old July 26th 17, 09:17 PM posted to uk.radio.amateur,rec.radio.amateur.antenna
external usenet poster
 
First recorded activity by RadioBanter: Mar 2017
Posts: 96
Default Full wave antennae on 137kHz?

On 26/07/2017 19:38, Ian Jackson wrote:
In message , Gareth's Downstairs Computer
writes



ITYM, "antennae"

No he doesn't.


Read the title thread to which you are both contributing.



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