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#41
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Full wave antennae on 137kHz?
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#42
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Full wave antennae on 137kHz?
On Thu, 27 Jul 2017 09:02:29 +0100, Spike
wrote: On 27/07/2017 00:39, Roger Hayter wrote: Brian Reay wrote: Are you trying to usurp Evans as the village idiot? Hint, there is no mention of 'growing popularity' of either- it is clear they mean antennas is used for RF antennas. It is really not my fault if you use the word converse when you don't know what it means. The dictionary says that antennas is a second variant 'especially' used for radio aerials, it certainly doesn't say it is exclusive usage in this context. Growing popularity is from my own observation of the literature, antennae is widely used in UK 1930s publications. In his depiction of the X-Gerate-equipped Heinkel III, R V Jones labelled them as 'antennae'. Such a description might well have been apt, given the appearance and attachment of these structures. But that was ~70 years ago. Language and spelling change. Not many people write "shewn" for "shown" these days. |
#43
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Full wave antennae on 137kHz?
On 27/07/2017 00:59, rickman wrote:
Gareth's Downstairs Computer wrote on 7/26/2017 4:17 PM: On 26/07/2017 19:38, Ian Jackson wrote: In message , Gareth's Downstairs Computer writes ITYM, "antennae" No he doesn't. Read the title thread to which you are both contributing. Does your post belong in an entomology group? I refer you to Aharoni's work at Imperial College in the 1940s. It was antennae then, in Brit. It can only have changed through the pig-ignorance of Yanks and of Brits not paying attention in school. |
#44
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Full wave antennae on 137kHz?
In message , Custos Custodum
writes Not many people write "shewn" for "shown" these days. I recall 'shewn' in my primary school arithmetic books, Mind you, it was some time ago. As for Latin plurals, I feel that in cases where the Romans would never have used that word for something (either because the thing did not exist, or if it did exist, we now use the word for something somewhat different), the Anglicised ending is usually preferable. I really cringe when I hear the pretentious 'musea', 'stadia' and (topically) 'referenda'. -- Ian |
#45
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Full wave antennae on 137kHz?
On Wed, 26 Jul 2017, rickman wrote:
Gareth's Downstairs Computer wrote on 7/26/2017 4:17 PM: On 26/07/2017 19:38, Ian Jackson wrote: In message , Gareth's Downstairs Computer writes ITYM, "antennae" No he doesn't. Read the title thread to which you are both contributing. Does your post belong in an entomology group? I just realized this whole debate is moot. He's not going to build more than one 137KHz antenna, not unless he has a very large farm, so the subject header could have been "Full wave antenna on 137kHz?" Michael |
#46
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Full wave antennae on 137kHz?
Custos Custodum wrote:
On Thu, 27 Jul 2017 09:02:29 +0100, Spike wrote: On 27/07/2017 00:39, Roger Hayter wrote: Brian Reay wrote: Are you trying to usurp Evans as the village idiot? Hint, there is no mention of 'growing popularity' of either- it is clear they mean antennas is used for RF antennas. It is really not my fault if you use the word converse when you don't know what it means. The dictionary says that antennas is a second variant 'especially' used for radio aerials, it certainly doesn't say it is exclusive usage in this context. Growing popularity is from my own observation of the literature, antennae is widely used in UK 1930s publications. In his depiction of the X-Gerate-equipped Heinkel III, R V Jones labelled them as 'antennae'. Such a description might well have been apt, given the appearance and attachment of these structures. But that was ~70 years ago. Language and spelling change. Not many people write "shewn" for "shown" these days. I think that, with the exception of Gareth, we all agree to a greater or lesser extent with that. The disagreement is over the idea that antennas has always and universally been used in the radio world. Clearly in the UK it hasn't. Whether antennae was ever used in the USA I don't know, and would be interested in comments. -- Roger Hayter |
#47
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Full wave antennae on 137kHz?
On 28/07/2017 11:28, Brian Morrison wrote:
On Thu, 27 Jul 2017 19:15:37 +0100 Roger Hayter wrote: Whether antennae was ever used in the USA I don't know, and would be interested in comments. With a few exceptions (summa cum laude etc.) the US is not keen on Latin spellings so I suspect not. In the UK, since the end of WWII, the use of antennae for radio related radiating objects is negligible, I have been reading the professional literature for nearly 40 years and antennas is the word used without exception both UK and US plus the rest of the world. I refer you to the professional tome, "Antennae" by Aharoni of Imperial College, published by Oxford. One presumes that each of the lesser souls is an ignoramus. |
#48
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Full wave antennae on 137kHz?
Gareth's Downstairs Computer
wrote: On 28/07/2017 11:28, Brian Morrison wrote: On Thu, 27 Jul 2017 19:15:37 +0100 Roger Hayter wrote: Whether antennae was ever used in the USA I don't know, and would be interested in comments. With a few exceptions (summa cum laude etc.) the US is not keen on Latin spellings so I suspect not. In the UK, since the end of WWII, the use of antennae for radio related radiating objects is negligible, I have been reading the professional literature for nearly 40 years and antennas is the word used without exception both UK and US plus the rest of the world. I refer you to the professional tome, "Antennae" by Aharoni of Imperial College, published by Oxford. One presumes that each of the lesser souls is an ignoramus. Quite so. 1946. Whether we like it or not, a combination of Americans and democratisation of our War Office (which got renamed as a 'defence department' at about the same time[1]) has led to the disappearance of 'antennae' from the radio literature. I agree with you that historically it *was* correct, but it is exceptional to the point of being confusing now. Languages change. [1] See Orwell, 1984. War is peace. -- Roger Hayter |
#49
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Full wave antennae on 137kHz?
Jeff wrote:
On 28/07/2017 11:28, Brian Morrison wrote: On Thu, 27 Jul 2017 19:15:37 +0100 Roger Hayter wrote: Whether antennae was ever used in the USA I don't know, and would be interested in comments. With a few exceptions (summa cum laude etc.) the US is not keen on Latin spellings so I suspect not. In the UK, since the end of WWII, the use of antennae for radio related radiating objects is negligible, I have been reading the professional literature for nearly 40 years and antennas is the word used without exception both UK and US plus the rest of the world. Indeed, and pre-war the UK usage was 'aerial' not antenna. It seems that antenna was an import from across the pond, with its plural as 'antennas'. I suspect that the use of antennae was the normal reaction to a 'crass Americanism' by people who though that they knew better. Jeff I suspect you're guessing. From a completely unsystematic vague recollection of literature I would say that 'Antenna, pl. antennae' was the scientific term in the UK in the 1920s and 1930s and 'aerial' remained the popular (?Marconi influenced) version. Aerial remains common usage among people not much interested in radio. Though I suppose antenna may replace aerial in popular culture before long. 'Antennae' was therefore not a back formation, but the natural choice of UK engineers with a classical education. I think the American influence came later. -- Roger Hayter |
#50
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Full wave antennae on 137kHz?
In message , Jeff writes
On 28/07/2017 11:28, Brian Morrison wrote: On Thu, 27 Jul 2017 19:15:37 +0100 Roger Hayter wrote: Whether antennae was ever used in the USA I don't know, and would be interested in comments. With a few exceptions (summa cum laude etc.) the US is not keen on Latin spellings so I suspect not. In the UK, since the end of WWII, the use of antennae for radio related radiating objects is negligible, I have been reading the professional literature for nearly 40 years and antennas is the word used without exception both UK and US plus the rest of the world. Indeed, and pre-war the UK usage was 'aerial' not antenna. It seems that antenna was an import from across the pond, with its plural as 'antennas'. I suspect that the use of antennae was the normal reaction to a 'crass Americanism' by people who though that they knew better. Jeff When I were a lad, in the UK the only people who would really refer to 'antenna' would be radio amateurs - usually among themselves and particularly when talking to someone abroad. Otherwise, it was 'aerial' - even in the commercial, professional and broadcasting world. However, these days its use is not uncommon. Even in the USA, the word 'aerial' was not unknown, and there are some old radio adverts from the 20s and early 30s where if is used. Somewhere on Youtube, there's a Laurel and Hardy film where, with little success, they attempt to erect 'an aerial' - and I doubt if this is a special UK version -- Ian |
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