On 19 Oct 2004 09:23:23 -0700, (mediancat) wrote:
i have tried changing out the cable, using splitters,
not using splitter, directly from wall, from vcr, etc. it never seems
to come in unless i am holding the cable connection to the connector
on the tv in this very specific way. what's going on?

Hi OM,

When you are holding the cable in its odd way (and it works just
fine), then you have happened upon an unique combination that proves
you should be able to do it right. However, the question remains,
what are you doing wrong?

Is the new antenna pointed in the right direction? Try turning it
through all 360° to see how that improves/degrades the situation.
This presumes you have all the right connections of course.

As you are using two antennas, how are you connecting them to the same
TV or VCR? As you have tried this antenna individually and still
found no happy conclusion, it would seem to be an elemental problem.

How far away is this station you are trying to get?

What kind of neighborhood are you in (city/suburb/rural)?

Are there path issues like hills?

Is this a matter of a snowy picture, or one that is broken up with
multiple images, or...?

What kind of line are you using? Twin lead (flat ribbon) or Coax
(round, thick cable)?

73's
Richard Clark, KB7QHC

Is the new antenna pointed in the right direction? Try turning it
through all 360° to see how that improves/degrades the situation.
This presumes you have all the right connections of course.

yes, its pointed west as the guy at the station has suggested. i did
go up and rotate it through the compass points just to be sure there
wasn't a better direction for it.

As you are using two antennas, how are you connecting them to the same
TV or VCR? As you have tried this antenna individually and still
found no happy conclusion, it would seem to be an elemental problem.

in seattle, this antenna scheme is sold specifically to pull in a
station that is west of the city, when all the other local stations
are in town. so my main antenna points north toward downtown seattle,
and this smaller one, that i mounted as instructed (on the same pole)
points west. there is this small plastic box that is part of this
kit. it too is mounted to the pole. i guess it's a splitter. i plug
the little and big antennas into the box and a third cable runs down
to the house. the station is not terribly far away - it used to come
in fine, and they haven't degraded the signal. i live kind of on a
hill so i don't think a building or hill is interfering with my signal
path. when the coax connector is plugged into the tv, and all the
other stations come in, channel 13 is snowy. you can barely make out
what is going on.

On 20 Oct 2004 07:09:45 -0700, (mediancat) wrote:


Is the new antenna pointed in the right direction? Try turning it
through all 360° to see how that improves/degrades the situation.
This presumes you have all the right connections of course.

yes, its pointed west as the guy at the station has suggested. i did
go up and rotate it through the compass points just to be sure there
wasn't a better direction for it.

As you are using two antennas, how are you connecting them to the same
TV or VCR? As you have tried this antenna individually and still
found no happy conclusion, it would seem to be an elemental problem.

in seattle, this antenna scheme is sold specifically to pull in a
station that is west of the city, when all the other local stations
are in town. so my main antenna points north toward downtown seattle,
and this smaller one, that i mounted as instructed (on the same pole)
points west. there is this small plastic box that is part of this
kit. it too is mounted to the pole. i guess it's a splitter. i plug
the little and big antennas into the box and a third cable runs down
to the house. the station is not terribly far away - it used to come
in fine, and they haven't degraded the signal. i live kind of on a
hill so i don't think a building or hill is interfering with my signal
path. when the coax connector is plugged into the tv, and all the
other stations come in, channel 13 is snowy. you can barely make out
what is going on.

Hi OM,

By this I presume you live south of Kent in Auburn or Puyallup (I live
in Seattle too).

TV in this area is so ubiquitous that you should get channel 13 by
waving your....

It sounds like you are trying to put Channel 13 into the UHF connector
instead of the VHF connector of your TV. The box you speak of sounds
like a VHF/UHF combiner, and I don't hear its twin at the other end of
the line being used (a VHF/UHF separator). If you are not using or do
not watch UHF (don't watch Channel 22?) then you need a simple
combiner. However, I think that is distinctly unlikely that you would
not be watching FOX - or maybe it's WB, I've gotten so use to the
cable channel mix I've lost track of the over-the-air slots.

Anyway, this sounds like an UHF/VHF splitting/combining problem now.

73's
Richard Clark, KB7QHC

Richard Clark wrote:
On 20 Oct 2004 07:09:45 -0700, (mediancat) wrote:


Is the new antenna pointed in the right direction? Try turning it
through all 360° to see how that improves/degrades the situation.
This presumes you have all the right connections of course.

yes, its pointed west as the guy at the station has suggested. i did
go up and rotate it through the compass points just to be sure there
wasn't a better direction for it.

As you are using two antennas, how are you connecting them to the
same TV or VCR? As you have tried this antenna individually and
still found no happy conclusion, it would seem to be an elemental
problem.

in seattle, this antenna scheme is sold specifically to pull in a
station that is west of the city, when all the other local stations
are in town. so my main antenna points north toward downtown
seattle, and this smaller one, that i mounted as instructed (on the
same pole) points west. there is this small plastic box that is
part of this kit. it too is mounted to the pole. i guess it's a
splitter. i plug the little and big antennas into the box and a
third cable runs down to the house. the station is not terribly far
away - it used to come in fine, and they haven't degraded the
signal. i live kind of on a hill so i don't think a building or
hill is interfering with my signal path. when the coax connector is
plugged into the tv, and all the other stations come in, channel 13
is snowy. you can barely make out what is going on.

Hi OM,

By this I presume you live south of Kent in Auburn or Puyallup (I live
in Seattle too).

TV in this area is so ubiquitous that you should get channel 13 by
waving your....

It sounds like you are trying to put Channel 13 into the UHF connector
instead of the VHF connector of your TV. The box you speak of sounds
like a VHF/UHF combiner, and I don't hear its twin at the other end of
the line being used (a VHF/UHF separator). If you are not using or do
not watch UHF (don't watch Channel 22?) then you need a simple
combiner. However, I think that is distinctly unlikely that you would
not be watching FOX - or maybe it's WB, I've gotten so use to the
cable channel mix I've lost track of the over-the-air slots.

Anyway, this sounds like an UHF/VHF splitting/combining problem now.

Since most set nowadays have the U/V splitter built in, I doubt that is what
he has. Up the pole is probably a simply 2 to 1 wideband splitter. I'm
assuming his 'main' antenna is an 'all channel' type, and the secondary is
cut specifically to channel 13.

I'd go out and buy a new splitter, some coax, connectors (with rubber boots
and weatherproofing grease). Somewhere there's a dodgy connection; and if
he has all those on hand, he'll be able to fix it. Perhaps he can reuse the
old coax, if he doesn't have to cut off too much in order to 'make' the new
connections. If water has migrated down the coax, he's better off to
replace it anyhow.

I'd also pay particular attention to the connections on the antennas
themselves, as well as verify their general condition.

I'd bet anything he'll find some corrosion up there somewhere....

With a system set up as described, I'm surprised he doesn't get some
ghosting on channel 13 from the reflected signal coming off his main
antenna. If so, trapping that channel before the splitter (combiner) would
reduce the effect.

jak

jak

73's
Richard Clark, KB7QHC

On Wed, 20 Oct 2004 12:31:41 -0500, "jakdedert"
wrote:

With a system set up as described, I'm surprised he doesn't get some
ghosting on channel 13 from the reflected signal coming off his main
antenna. If so, trapping that channel before the splitter (combiner) would
reduce the effect.

Hi jak,

Reflected signals on a nearby antenna (like one on the same mast) is
going to be totally invisible. The scan line crosses the screen in
62µS and an RF signal will travel 10 Miles in that time. For a ghost
to be observed the original and the reflection must exhibit some
significant portion (or multiple plus offset) of that value. Let's
arbitrarily call your TV 10 inches wide and set the reflection with a
1 mile path difference. Thus the two images (original and ghost)
would be offset by one inch.

Now let's ramp that 1 mile difference down to a couple of feet (those
two adjacent antennas). You should then appreciate that 1 inch ghost
offset will shrink to sub mm (to mix units). Conventional TV
bandwidths could not resolve the difference.

73's
Richard Clark, KB7QHC

"Richard Clark" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 20 Oct 2004 12:31:41 -0500, "jakdedert"
wrote:

With a system set up as described, I'm surprised he doesn't get some
ghosting on channel 13 from the reflected signal coming off his main
antenna. If so, trapping that channel before the splitter (combiner)
would
reduce the effect.

Hi jak,

Reflected signals on a nearby antenna (like one on the same mast) is
going to be totally invisible. The scan line crosses the screen in
62µS and an RF signal will travel 10 Miles in that time. For a ghost
to be observed the original and the reflection must exhibit some
significant portion (or multiple plus offset) of that value. Let's
arbitrarily call your TV 10 inches wide and set the reflection with a
1 mile path difference. Thus the two images (original and ghost)
would be offset by one inch.

Now let's ramp that 1 mile difference down to a couple of feet (those
two adjacent antennas). You should then appreciate that 1 inch ghost
offset will shrink to sub mm (to mix units). Conventional TV
bandwidths could not resolve the difference.

You misunderstood me. I didn't mean the reflections from the antennas
themselves. I was talking about reflected signals picked up by the off-axis
'main' all channel antenna. Of course, for the reflections to occur, there
would have to be some geographical or architectural feature for them to
reflect off of. In my neighborhood (near center of a metro area), rooftop
antennas have to be rotated for each individual channel. Many times, the
optimum direction is more a function of achieving fewer ghosts than aiming
directly at the station.

jak

73's
Richard Clark, KB7QHC

"mediancat" wrote in message
om...

| in seattle, this antenna scheme is sold specifically to pull in a
| station that is west of the city, when all the other local stations
| are in town. so my main antenna points north toward downtown seattle,
| and this smaller one, that i mounted as instructed (on the same pole)
| points west. there is this small plastic box that is part of this
| kit. it too is mounted to the pole. i guess it's a splitter.

Try a dollar store splitter. It'll work in reverse as a combiner near enough
to test - and it's only a buck!

| i plug
| the little and big antennas into the box and a third cable runs down
| to the house. the station is not terribly far away - it used to come
| in fine, and they haven't degraded the signal. i live kind of on a
| hill so i don't think a building or hill is interfering with my signal
| path. when the coax connector is plugged into the tv, and all the
| other stations come in, channel 13 is snowy. you can barely make out
| what is going on.