"Ken Bessler" wrote in message
news:lWKjd.75151$%x.68322@okepread04...
OK, after the thread on PL-259 losses, I figured
my system (ant gain - connector losses - coax loss)

150 mhz total net gain 1.006 DBi
450 mhz total net gain 2.797 DBi
Antenna tip is 32'6" above ground

My proposed system would replace the RG 58 coax pieces
with a single section of Flexi 4XL and the antenna would
be a Comet GP-9. The new figures a

150 mhz total net gain 7.919 DBi
450 mhz total net gain 10.553 DBi
Antenna tip is 47'6" above ground

150 mhz = 6.913 db improvement
450 mhz = 7.756 db improvement
Antenna tip 15 feet higher

Cost - about $250 for the improvement.

Now here's my question - will I notice the improvement
enough? I've had several OM's tell me that on SSB, CW
or HF I would but not on 2m/440 simplex and repeaters.


Ken KG0WX

The figures speak for themselves. If you are doing any VHF/UHF weak signal
work, regardless of mode, it WILL be noticeable. Depending on the distance
of the sending station or repeater, it can even be noticeable on FM.

Dee D. Flint, N8UZE

On Mon, 8 Nov 2004 07:56:46 -0600, "Ken Bessler"
wrote:

OK, after the thread on PL-259 losses, I figured
my system (ant gain - connector losses - coax loss)

150 mhz total net gain 1.006 DBi
450 mhz total net gain 2.797 DBi
Antenna tip is 32'6" above ground

My proposed system would replace the RG 58 coax pieces
with a single section of Flexi 4XL and the antenna would
be a Comet GP-9. The new figures a

150 mhz total net gain 7.919 DBi
450 mhz total net gain 10.553 DBi
Antenna tip is 47'6" above ground

150 mhz = 6.913 db improvement
450 mhz = 7.756 db improvement
Antenna tip 15 feet higher

Cost - about $250 for the improvement.

Now here's my question - will I notice the improvement
enough? I've had several OM's tell me that on SSB, CW
or HF I would but not on 2m/440 simplex and repeaters.


Everything is relative.

As Dee said, if you do weak signal work you will notice it.

If you figure investment Vs performance yours is ahead of mine
http://www.rogerhalstead.com/ham_files/tower.htm in both dollars per
watt and hours to install. Took me two years to install, but I do put
it to use. OTOH I've thought of replacing the UHF/VHF arrays with a
single Diamond dual band repeater antenna, EXCEPT for the lightening
problem.
That tower has been taking about 3 hits a year and I have one Diamond
repeater antenna in the shop that looks like a well used exploding
cigar. The top end is pretty frazzled and the matching network in the
base is shorted. Inside it vaporized the top 4 or 5 inches of the end
element.

In my opinion the height is the important element, but I'd not worry
about the extra gain of the antenna. OTOH you *might* receive some
intermod, but you *probably* won't. (note weasel words)


Roger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member)
(N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair)
www.rogerhalstead.com

Ken KG0WX

150 mhz = 6.913 db improvement
450 mhz = 7.756 db improvement
Antenna tip 15 feet higher

Now here's my question - will I notice the improvement
enough? I've had several OM's tell me that on SSB, CW
or HF I would but not on 2m/440 simplex and repeaters.


Ken KG0WX

Well, Ken maybe your "OM's" didn't eat their Wheaties. A 6dB improvement means
you have quadrupled your ERP over your existing system. You have also
increased the distance to your radio horizon with the increse in antenna
height.

Why they would say you won't notice an improvement is beyond me. In plane
language here are a few things just a 6dB improvement mean. You can reduce
your radios Tx power by a factor of 4 and have the equivalent ERP, 6dB doubles
your range Tx and Rx (within the limits of your stations LOS - line of sight).
Stations that were noisy will now be full quieting, be it simplex or repeaters
you work.

In even simpler terms, "night and day".

What are you waiting for?

Regards, Hugh KF6HHS
Retired, now life moves at my pace.
please note spam filter

"KF6HHS" wrote in message
...
150 mhz = 6.913 db improvement
450 mhz = 7.756 db improvement
Antenna tip 15 feet higher

Now here's my question - will I notice the improvement
enough? I've had several OM's tell me that on SSB, CW
or HF I would but not on 2m/440 simplex and repeaters.


Ken KG0WX

Well, Ken maybe your "OM's" didn't eat their Wheaties. A 6dB improvement
means
you have quadrupled your ERP over your existing system. You have also
increased the distance to your radio horizon with the increse in antenna
height.

Why they would say you won't notice an improvement is beyond me. In plane
language here are a few things just a 6dB improvement mean. You can
reduce
your radios Tx power by a factor of 4 and have the equivalent ERP, 6dB
doubles
your range Tx and Rx (within the limits of your stations LOS - line of
sight).
Stations that were noisy will now be full quieting, be it simplex or
repeaters
you work.

In even simpler terms, "night and day".

What are you waiting for?

Regards, Hugh KF6HHS
Retired, now life moves at my pace.
please note spam filter

Well, I did it. I changed plans at the last second, though,
going for the Hustler CG-144 monobander with radial kit.
Instead of paying $200 for the GP-9, I paid $27 and got
almost as much gain.

After figuring my old antenna's gain - coax - connectors, I
figured the new coax (Flexi 4XL) and antenna. The new
antenna is 5 feet higher and my system gained 3.940 db.

My S-meter on my 2 meter rig is stingy, esp. around S8
where it has an almost logritmic scale action. Still, several
repeaters went from S3 to S5 and several went from S7
to S9. One repeater remained S1 but it's noise factor went
from 50% quieting to 70% quieting.

Turns out it probably was a good decision - the Hustler
has 5.2 dbi gain and the tip is at 42'. I'm just stating to get
intermod at this level of performance (I live between a
hospital & Boeing). I'm convinced if I had gone with the
GP-9, I would have serious intermod problems (plus my
wallet would be $170 lighter) plus raising it would have
been MUCH harder.

Thanks to all who offered advice on this topic - You guys
rule!

73's de Ken KG0WX

Well, I did it. I changed plans at the last second, though,
going for the Hustler CG-144 monobander with radial kit.
Instead of paying $200 for the GP-9, I paid $27 and got
almost as much gain.

After figuring my old antenna's gain - coax - connectors, I
figured the new coax (Flexi 4XL) and antenna. The new
antenna is 5 feet higher and my system gained 3.940 db.

My S-meter on my 2 meter rig is stingy, esp. around S8
where it has an almost logritmic scale action. Still, several
repeaters went from S3 to S5 and several went from S7
to S9. One repeater remained S1 but it's noise factor went
from 50% quieting to 70% quieting.

Turns out it probably was a good decision - the Hustler
has 5.2 dbi gain and the tip is at 42'. I'm just stating to get
intermod at this level of performance (I live between a
hospital & Boeing). I'm convinced if I had gone with the
GP-9, I would have serious intermod problems (plus my
wallet would be $170 lighter) plus raising it would have
been MUCH harder.

The worth it question seems to be that you spent $ 27 for a net gain to get
one repeater to go from about 50% to 70 % quieting. The other repeaters
were peobably full quieting so you would not gain anything on them even if
you spent the full $ 200. Whe 'worth it " will come when you are making
contacts that you did not make with what you already had.

"Ralph Mowery" wrote in message
news

The worth it question seems to be that you spent $ 27 for a net gain to
get
one repeater to go from about 50% to 70 % quieting. The other repeaters
were peobably full quieting so you would not gain anything on them even
if
you spent the full $ 200. Whe 'worth it " will come when you are making
contacts that you did not make with what you already had.



Well, N0IDW can hear me on simplex at 40 miles away now
where he only heard silence before. The real performance factor
will kick in during the next band opening.

Also, a fringe repeater is now within range (60 miles away) and I
can use it's signal to check for band openings.

Ken KG0WX