I have a ground rod that has become corroded. My VOM measures no
continuity between the rod and the ground wire.

Is there and easy spray-on cleaner of some kind that would make the
ground rod shiney and conductive again, where I attach the ground
wire? (I don't think I can pull the rod out to replace it; it'd be
easier to fix what I have.)

Tnx,

Bob
k5qwg

Odd thing to use, but it works: Worcestershire Sauce.
Easy to find at the groceries. I've used it on copper pennies for years, and
old copper wire. But if you solder the wire after cleaning, it smells like
you are cooking something, but solders just fine.


"Bob Miller" wrote in message
...
I have a ground rod that has become corroded. My VOM measures no
continuity between the rod and the ground wire.

Is there and easy spray-on cleaner of some kind that would make the
ground rod shiney and conductive again, where I attach the ground
wire? (I don't think I can pull the rod out to replace it; it'd be
easier to fix what I have.)

Tnx,

Bob
k5qwg

I have a ground rod that has become corroded. My VOM measures no
continuity between the rod and the ground wire.

Is there and easy spray-on cleaner of some kind that would make the
ground rod shiney and conductive again, where I attach the ground
wire? (I don't think I can pull the rod out to replace it; it'd be
easier to fix what I have.)

Most of the ground rods I've seen are steel, with a thin copper
plating. If your rod has corroded enough that you've lost continuity
with the ground wire, I'd guess that your rod's copper plating is
probably gone or is badly degraded. This has two implications:

- You may not be able to clean it enough to re-establish a good contact

- The copper may be gone from the portion of the rod which is beneath
the soil surface, and hence your ground conductivity may be shot.

The best fix would be to pull out the existing rod (I know, it's a
pain... using some sort of hoist or jack might be the best way to get
it out), hammer in a new one, and then use a NEC-approved
corrosion-proof way of bonding the grounding wire to the new rod (this
usually means welding it, I believe).

--
Dave Platt AE6EO
Hosting the Jade Warrior home page: http://www.radagast.org/jade-warrior
I do _not_ wish to receive unsolicited commercial email, and I will
boycott any company which has the gall to send me such ads!

Dave Platt wrote:

Most of the ground rods I've seen are steel, with a thin copper
plating. If your rod has corroded enough that you've lost continuity
with the ground wire, I'd guess that your rod's copper plating is
probably gone or is badly degraded. This has two implications:

- You may not be able to clean it enough to re-establish a good contact

- The copper may be gone from the portion of the rod which is beneath
the soil surface, and hence your ground conductivity may be shot.
. . .

Surely the ground conductivity doesn't depend on that thin plating of
copper, does it? Isn't the conductivity of rust better than the dirt
it's in contact with?

Roy Lewallen, W7EL

In article ,
Roy Lewallen wrote:

- You may not be able to clean it enough to re-establish a good contact

- The copper may be gone from the portion of the rod which is beneath
the soil surface, and hence your ground conductivity may be shot.

Surely the ground conductivity doesn't depend on that thin plating of
copper, does it? Isn't the conductivity of rust better than the dirt
it's in contact with?

The conductivity of the rod itself will certainly decrease by some
amount, if when the copper is gone. I don't have a quantitative
figure for this. Whether the rust (from the corroded steel) is more
or less conductive than the soil surrounding it will probably depend
to some extent on the soil conditions... but both will surely be less
conductive than uncorroded metal (be it steel or copper). Every extra
ohm in the current pathway is going to result in an increase in
voltage rise across the grounding system if/when the system takes a
hit.

From what I see (based on a quick skim of the DoD-issued MIL-HDBK-419A
on grounding and lightning protection), the copper plating serves two
important purposes: compatibility with the copper wire, and protecting
the steel of the rod from corrosion. By itself, it doesn't seem to be
critical for carrying the current.

If the copper's gone, and the steel is in direct contact with the
soil, I'd be concerned about the rod suffering some fairly serious
corrosion over a period of a few years. You might end up with a
ground rod which was, in effect, only a foot or so long... it could
break or be badly narrowed by corrosion not far below where it's
hammered into the ground. This might seriously compromise its ability
to shunt the charge of a lightning strike into the soil and keep the
voltage rise on the attached wires to a level that minimizes damage.

It probably depends a lot on the soil chemistry... e.g. acidic soils
would probably be harder on an unplated ground rod that more alkaline
soils, and would degrade it more rapidly.

--
Dave Platt AE6EO
Hosting the Jade Warrior home page: http://www.radagast.org/jade-warrior
I do _not_ wish to receive unsolicited commercial email, and I will
boycott any company which has the gall to send me such ads!

Additional followup: a technical report on ground-rod lifetime at
http://www.erico.com/public/library/...ike/LT0540.pdf has some
interesting conclusions.

It cites a study or two which suggests that ground rods with a 10 mil
copper coating should be good for a service life of up to 40 years.
With a 13 mil coating, 50 years.

Galvanized ground rods with a 3.9 mil zinc coating don't seem to be
good for more than a 10-year service life. One sample dug up after 10
years was corroded through, almost to the point of breaking, not far
below the soil surface.

--
Dave Platt AE6EO
Hosting the Jade Warrior home page: http://www.radagast.org/jade-warrior
I do _not_ wish to receive unsolicited commercial email, and I will
boycott any company which has the gall to send me such ads!

On Tue, 28 Dec 2004 19:04:04 -0500, "Jim Leder"
wrote:

Odd thing to use, but it works: Worcestershire Sauce.
Easy to find at the groceries. I've used it on copper pennies for years, and
old copper wire. But if you solder the wire after cleaning, it smells like
you are cooking something, but solders just fine.

Did a Google on cleaning copper, and the most common cleaner for
copper pots appears to be vinegar and salt, or lemon juice and salt.
Maybe Worcestershire sauce has same ingredients?

Or, maybe I'll just have to drive a new ground rod :-)

Bob
k5qwg




"Bob Miller" wrote in message
.. .
I have a ground rod that has become corroded. My VOM measures no
continuity between the rod and the ground wire.

Is there and easy spray-on cleaner of some kind that would make the
ground rod shiney and conductive again, where I attach the ground
wire? (I don't think I can pull the rod out to replace it; it'd be
easier to fix what I have.)

Tnx,

Bob
k5qwg

In article ,
Bob Miller wrote:

Did a Google on cleaning copper, and the most common cleaner for
copper pots appears to be vinegar and salt, or lemon juice and salt.
Maybe Worcestershire sauce has same ingredients?

The magic 8-ball known as Google seems to agree that you're right.
Most of the Worcestershire sauce recipies contain anchovies (quite
salty), and either vinegar or lemon or orange juice or some
combination thereof.

As to copper cleaners - one I remember favorably from my boyhood
puttering-with-chemistry days is a mix of sodium bicarbonate (baking
soda) and dilute ammonium hydroxide ("5% household ammonia water",
either clear or sudzy). The resulting slurry takes tarnish off of
copper or silver almost instantly (although I don't know how much of
the metal in the tarnish is returned to the surface and how much ends
up in the slurry).

Use with appropriate caution, gloves, and ventilation, of course.

--
Dave Platt AE6EO
Hosting the Jade Warrior home page: http://www.radagast.org/jade-warrior
I do _not_ wish to receive unsolicited commercial email, and I will
boycott any company which has the gall to send me such ads!

"Bob Miller" wrote
Did a Google on cleaning copper, and the most common cleaner for
copper pots appears to be vinegar and salt, or lemon juice and salt.
Maybe Worcestershire sauce has same ingredients?

Or, maybe I'll just have to drive a new ground rod :-)

Bob
k5qwg

Yessir my friend, the latter is your best move, and at about $12 it just
isn't worth the worry about longevity of a compromised electrode! Do resist
the temptation to push a new one back in the same hole, o.k.? ;-)

While you're at Home Depot, pick up a few, and add those extra ones you were
meaning to do. It might be Lowe's that carries the pre-cut 25' lengths of #4
copper grounding wire for about $8. These are such cheap solutions to
sleepless nights during thunderstorms!

73,
Jack Painter
Virginia Beach, VA

On Tue, 28 Dec 2004 21:23:04 -0500, "Jack Painter"
wrote:


"Bob Miller" wrote
Did a Google on cleaning copper, and the most common cleaner for
copper pots appears to be vinegar and salt, or lemon juice and salt.
Maybe Worcestershire sauce has same ingredients?

Or, maybe I'll just have to drive a new ground rod :-)

Bob
k5qwg

Yessir my friend, the latter is your best move, and at about $12 it just
isn't worth the worry about longevity of a compromised electrode! Do resist
the temptation to push a new one back in the same hole, o.k.? ;-)

While you're at Home Depot, pick up a few, and add those extra ones you were
meaning to do. It might be Lowe's that carries the pre-cut 25' lengths of #4
copper grounding wire for about $8. These are such cheap solutions to
sleepless nights during thunderstorms!

My main problem is there is solid rock/limestone about a foot down. I
can't even penetrate it with my Glen Martin ground rod driver. So
putting down a new rod probably means digging a shallow ditch and
laying it down horizontally -- or laying some radial wire, or both.

bob
k5qwg



73,
Jack Painter
Virginia Beach, VA