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Loft Antenna
I have been refused permission for any kind of outdoor Antenna due to the
area in which I live in the UK having "permitted development rights removed" I think that this may be a conservation area. Having recently passed the foundation course I am getting impatient - and dissapointed to say the least. I am now faced with only one or two alternatives - an Indoor or Loft Antenna. I realise that this may restrict me to 2m only but at least it will be better than nothing - or to operate mobile only. Has anyone on the group got any suggestions ? I have a fair sized loft with approx. 2.5m headroom, which runs the whole width of the house -almost 30ft. - is there anything I use in the loft like a loop Antenna for instance ? Or a fixed Station Antenna ? Thaks for your help John M3IIV |
On Mon, 3 Jan 2005 15:16:53 +0000 (UTC), "Simon Smith"
wrote: I have been refused permission for any kind of outdoor Antenna due to the area in which I live in the UK having "permitted development rights removed" I think that this may be a conservation area. Having recently passed the foundation course I am getting impatient - and dissapointed to say the least. I am now faced with only one or two alternatives - an Indoor or Loft Antenna. I realise that this may restrict me to 2m only but at least it will be better than nothing - or to operate mobile only. Has anyone on the group got any suggestions ? I have a fair sized loft with approx. 2.5m headroom, which runs the whole width of the house -almost 30ft. - is there anything I use in the loft like a loop Antenna for instance ? Or a fixed Station Antenna ? Thaks for your help John M3IIV Dear John, It has been my experience that the inefficiency of loft antennas make them nearly useless. However, you have to work with what you've got. My suggestion would be to build the best 20 meter dipole antenna you can build for the space available. Try to keep the ends of the antenna as far away from anything that absorbs RF as possible - even wood and brick do absorb RF. If necessary, use loading coils in the dipole to get the dipole resonant (at 14.070 MHz). Think about PSK31 as an operational mode because that gives you the best bang for the buck in terms of being heard 'round the world and being able to hear others in adverse conditions. Bob, W9DMK, Dahlgren, VA http://www.qsl.net/w9dmk |
There is a few possibilities except putting an antenna in the loft. I`ve
read an article on the www amount tuning the rain gutter as an antenna. An other option is to just put up your antenna while transmitting. The antenna can be a telescopic 16' fishing rod with the antenna wire taped in the bottom of each joint. An adoption of this link http://pages.zdnet.com/radio_k7zb/id8.html Make an STL and run it on NVIS by putting it horizontal abt 2' above the ground. http://www.qsl.net/aa5tb/loop.html If you have a garden get a flagpole of glass fiber and run a wire inside the pole with an auto tuner by the base and fed by an underground coax ( the other option is to feed it by a duplet coax and tuner inside). If you goggle a bit on the net for "stelth antenna" you will probably find something suitable for your needs. Regards Geir "Simon Smith" wrote in message ... I have been refused permission for any kind of outdoor Antenna due to the area in which I live in the UK having "permitted development rights removed" I think that this may be a conservation area. Having recently passed the foundation course I am getting impatient - and dissapointed to say the least. I am now faced with only one or two alternatives - an Indoor or Loft Antenna. I realise that this may restrict me to 2m only but at least it will be better than nothing - or to operate mobile only. Has anyone on the group got any suggestions ? I have a fair sized loft with approx. 2.5m headroom, which runs the whole width of the house -almost 30ft. - is there anything I use in the loft like a loop Antenna for instance ? Or a fixed Station Antenna ? Thaks for your help John M3IIV |
I forgot this one
http://users.erols.com/k3mt/graswire/graswire.htm "Simon Smith" wrote in message ... I have been refused permission for any kind of outdoor Antenna due to the area in which I live in the UK having "permitted development rights removed" I think that this may be a conservation area. Having recently passed the foundation course I am getting impatient - and dissapointed to say the least. I am now faced with only one or two alternatives - an Indoor or Loft Antenna. I realise that this may restrict me to 2m only but at least it will be better than nothing - or to operate mobile only. Has anyone on the group got any suggestions ? I have a fair sized loft with approx. 2.5m headroom, which runs the whole width of the house -almost 30ft. - is there anything I use in the loft like a loop Antenna for instance ? Or a fixed Station Antenna ? Thaks for your help John M3IIV |
"Simon Smith" wrote in message ... I have been refused permission for any kind of outdoor Antenna due to the area in which I live in the UK having "permitted development rights removed" I think that this may be a conservation area. Having recently passed the foundation course I am getting impatient - and dissapointed to say the least. I am now faced with only one or two alternatives - an Indoor or Loft Antenna. I realise that this may restrict me to 2m only but at least it will be better than nothing - or to operate mobile only. Has anyone on the group got any suggestions ? I have a fair sized loft with approx. 2.5m headroom, which runs the whole width of the house -almost 30ft. - is there anything I use in the loft like a loop Antenna for instance ? Or a fixed Station Antenna ? Thaks for your help John M3IIV John, If you string a wire antenna outside, can they do anything to you other than have you take it down? Some people in your position have gotten away with it. You could also put a 20 m vertical inside a plastic pipe, and call it a flagpole; radials might get a little touchy. Tam/WB2TT |
John,
The most power-efficient antenna which will fit into a loft is the so-called magnetic loop. A loop, 2 or 2.5-metres square, or a circular or broad rectangular loop of the same perimeter, made with 25mm plumbers' copper pipe will work reasonably well at frequencies as low as the 160m band. The greater the area enclosed by the loop and the greater the conductor diameter, the greater the efficiency. A remotely-controlled, slow-motion, vacuum tuning capacitor (1000pF for 160m) can be expensive. But capacitors rapidly get progressively much smaller on the 80 and 40m bands, etc. A range of three bands, eg., 80, 40 and 20m, can be covered with one capacitor. Very high efficiency, comparable with a 1/2-wave dipole can be acheived at the higher frequencies within a much smaller space. Whether you make one or purchase one, or just amuse yourself with figures you can compare performance versus dimensions by downloading program MAGLOOP4 from website below. Download in a few seconds and run immediately. ---- .................................................. .......... Regards from Reg, G4FGQ For Free Radio Design Software go to http://www.btinternet.com/~g4fgq.regp .................................................. .......... |
Simon Smith wrote:
I have been refused permission for any kind of outdoor Antenna due to the area in which I live in the UK having "permitted development rights removed" I think that this may be a conservation area. Having recently passed the foundation course I am getting impatient - and dissapointed to say the least. I am now faced with only one or two alternatives - an Indoor or Loft Antenna. I realise that this may restrict me to 2m only but at least it will be better than nothing - or to operate mobile only. Has anyone on the group got any suggestions ? I have a fair sized loft with approx. 2.5m headroom, which runs the whole width of the house -almost 30ft. - is there anything I use in the loft like a loop Antenna for instance ? Or a fixed Station Antenna ? Thaks for your help John M3IIV I have run into this situation twice. Once I installed a multiband - parallel wire - dipole for 10, 15, 20 and 40m and had reasonably good results. The other place I installed a "Slinky dipole" which worked quite well on 10, 15, 20 and 40; but was marginal on 80m. Also had the disadvantage that I had to go up to change bands. Friends facing the same situation have used wire loop around the outside of the house, and a hinged vertical which lay behind a fence and only came up after dark. Good luck Dave |
Hi John,
I had a similar problem and initially tried a Buddipole dipole in the attic. It worked but not too well and also flooded the house with RFI. I then switched to a screwdriver antenna hidden in a rubbermaid shed and it works fine. See: http://www.qrz.com/w4tqt Ron, W4TQT Simon Smith wrote: I have been refused permission for any kind of outdoor Antenna due to the area in which I live in the UK having "permitted development rights removed" I think that this may be a conservation area. Having recently passed the foundation course I am getting impatient - and dissapointed to say the least. I am now faced with only one or two alternatives - an Indoor or Loft Antenna. I realise that this may restrict me to 2m only but at least it will be better than nothing - or to operate mobile only. Has anyone on the group got any suggestions ? I have a fair sized loft with approx. 2.5m headroom, which runs the whole width of the house -almost 30ft. - is there anything I use in the loft like a loop Antenna for instance ? Or a fixed Station Antenna ? Thaks for your help John M3IIV |
John- must second Reg- for an antenna for 20-10 meters. AEA used to make
such an antenna (cant remember the name, but think now made by MFJ. As to higher freqs (dont laugh too hard) a friend, in K.Falls, OREGON lived in an apartment with a loft - placed a rotator up in it, with a combination 3 element 2 meter quad, nested inside a 2 element 6 meter quad. One caviat, tho, make sure that if it is insulated (the loft), that no alumiuium foil is on it for a vapor barrier! (makes a great faraday shield!) Such an antenna is indeed worthy, as he worked ZL/VK, as well as the east coast during f2, as well as multihop openings on Eskip! one other thing to consider is , if you have ground fault outlets, they are suceptable to RF tripping them, as many have found out! As info-- Jim NN7K Reg Edwards wrote: John, The most power-efficient antenna which will fit into a loft is the so-called magnetic loop. A loop, 2 or 2.5-metres square, or a circular or broad rectangular loop of the same perimeter, made with 25mm plumbers' copper pipe will work reasonably well at frequencies as low as the 160m band. The greater the area enclosed by the loop and the greater the conductor diameter, the greater the efficiency. A remotely-controlled, slow-motion, vacuum tuning capacitor (1000pF for 160m) can be expensive. But capacitors rapidly get progressively much smaller on the 80 and 40m bands, etc. A range of three bands, eg., 80, 40 and 20m, can be covered with one capacitor. Very high efficiency, comparable with a 1/2-wave dipole can be acheived at the higher frequencies within a much smaller space. Whether you make one or purchase one, or just amuse yourself with figures you can compare performance versus dimensions by downloading program MAGLOOP4 from website below. Download in a few seconds and run immediately. ---- .................................................. ......... Regards from Reg, G4FGQ For Free Radio Design Software go to http://www.btinternet.com/~g4fgq.regp .................................................. ......... |
Hello,
Throw as much wire as you can up in your loft, feed it in the center with ladder line to a tuner. I used one for years. I called it a "Dog-eared dipole" because I let the ends just droop down and along the attic floor when I ran out of attic length. It was cut for 40 meters (33 feet per side) and worked good enough. Since it's a balanced load, I don't have any trouble with TVI, but it does get into the telephone sometimes. I just used a staple gun to get it as high as I could. Good luck & 73's KD5ZCL Robert Lay wrote: On Mon, 3 Jan 2005 15:16:53 +0000 (UTC), "Simon Smith" wrote: I have been refused permission for any kind of outdoor Antenna due to the area in which I live in the UK having "permitted development rights removed" I think that this may be a conservation area. Having recently passed the foundation course I am getting impatient - and dissapointed to say the least. I am now faced with only one or two alternatives - an Indoor or Loft Antenna. I realise that this may restrict me to 2m only but at least it will be better than nothing - or to operate mobile only. Has anyone on the group got any suggestions ? I have a fair sized loft with approx. 2.5m headroom, which runs the whole width of the house -almost 30ft. - is there anything I use in the loft like a loop Antenna for instance ? Or a fixed Station Antenna ? Thaks for your help John M3IIV Dear John, It has been my experience that the inefficiency of loft antennas make them nearly useless. However, you have to work with what you've got. My suggestion would be to build the best 20 meter dipole antenna you can build for the space available. Try to keep the ends of the antenna as far away from anything that absorbs RF as possible - even wood and brick do absorb RF. If necessary, use loading coils in the dipole to get the dipole resonant (at 14.070 MHz). Think about PSK31 as an operational mode because that gives you the best bang for the buck in terms of being heard 'round the world and being able to hear others in adverse conditions. Bob, W9DMK, Dahlgren, VA http://www.qsl.net/w9dmk |
John wrote:
I have been refused permission for any kind of outdoor Antenna due to the area in which I live in the UK having "permitted development rights removed" I think that this may be a conservation area. Having recently passed the foundation course I am getting impatient - and dissapointed to say the least. I am now faced with only one or two alternatives - an Indoor or Loft Antenna. I realise that this may restrict me to 2m only but at least it will be better than nothing - or to operate mobile only. Has anyone on the group got any suggestions ? I have a fair sized loft with approx. 2.5m headroom, which runs the whole width of the house -almost 30ft. - is there anything I use in the loft like a loop Antenna for instance ? Or a fixed Station Antenna ? Lots of good advice elsewhere in the thread. You certainly can operate HF from a loft that size... though RF interference may be a problem. But we're getting ahead of ourselves - it's too soon to give up on outside antennas yet. No matter where you are, the planners don't have the authority to issue a blanket refusal. Even in a conservation area, there are still plenty of legitimate options involving 'stealth' antennas, night-time operation etc. Here in town, there's an amateur who lives in a Listed building that is right opposite the District Council offices - the planning officer's desk is by the window, literally overlooking the rear of his house! It's hard to imagine a worse situation than that, yet he *can* put up outside antennas, and he gets out fine on 80m and VHF. So don't ever accept a flat "No" for an answer. Push back at officialdom. Find out if you really are in a conservation area, and by what right they are restricting you. Ask them for chapter-and-verse on that. On the technical side, think up some solutions for outdoor antennas that they cannot reasonably refuse. Keep pushing - politely, but also relentlessly. When they eventually realise that you're not going to give up, they *will* say "Yes" to something. Talk to the RSGB Planning Panel (details at www.rsgb.org) and I'm sure they can help you. -- 73 from Ian G3SEK 'In Practice' columnist for RadCom (RSGB) http://www.ifwtech.co.uk/g3sek |
The local neighborhood hysterical society was giving my dad some heat for his installation. He lived in a 100 yr old house on the edge, but not IN the hystreical district. I told them that if they gave him any problems, I'd help him put up a "period" wireless station. Big clothesline antenna, spark-gap transmitter... Or would they prefer he stay on 2 meters and HF at moderate power? :) |
John wrote:
I am now faced with only one or two alternatives - an Indoor or Loft Antenna. I live in a no antenna HOA area. I ended up laying a #22 wire around the outer edge of my roof and hooked it up as a loop. It is a random length of over 200' and varies in height from 7' to 20'. I chose the wire color to match the red tile roof so that you can't see it. I use it on 160 through 10 and have had decent results, nothing spectacular, but generally good solid contacts. (I usually run 50 watts, although sometimes less.) Just another idea for you to consider... |
IA few years ago, I had to use an indoor antenna on 80 and 160 metres due to
covenant restrictions (I put up a small vertical outside for 40-10 metres. No one noticed it so no one cared.) The indoor antenna started at the floor of a bedroom closet, ran up into th attic to the dizzying height of 15 feet, and went horizontal for about 30 feet ending in a huge capacity hat that I constructed at the gable end of the attic. It resonanted at about 2.5 MHz and I fed it with an L-network mounted on the floor of the closet, using, for a ground plane, the heating ducts, copper plumbing and a few extra wires in the basement. It worked as well as most folks' outside dipoles on 75-80, and on 160 , on several cold crisp winter nights, I was able to work into the UK and France on CW. Yes, when I hit the key, the lights on the Christmas tree would glow--even though the lights were't plugged in! Anyways, moral of the story is don't limit yourself to 2 metres. Put something up. You'll be pleasantly surprised by what you can work with an indoor antenna. 73. Harry MacLean, VE3GRO, London, Ontario, Canada, e-mail . Harry MacLean, VE3GRO 500 Riverside Drive, London, ON N6H 2R7 (519) 473-1668 |
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