I have been refused permission for any kind of outdoor Antenna due to the
area in which I live in the UK having "permitted development rights
removed"
I think that this may be a conservation area. Having recently passed the
foundation course I am getting impatient - and dissapointed to say the
least.
I am now faced with only one or two alternatives - an Indoor or Loft
Antenna. I realise that this may restrict me to 2m only but at least it
will be better than nothing - or to operate mobile only.
Has anyone on the group got any suggestions ? I have a fair sized loft with
approx. 2.5m headroom, which runs the whole width of the house -almost
30ft. - is there anything I use in the loft like a loop Antenna for instance
? Or a fixed Station Antenna ?

Thaks for your help
John
M3IIV

On Mon, 3 Jan 2005 15:16:53 +0000 (UTC), "Simon Smith"
wrote:

I have been refused permission for any kind of outdoor Antenna due to the
area in which I live in the UK having "permitted development rights
removed"
I think that this may be a conservation area. Having recently passed the
foundation course I am getting impatient - and dissapointed to say the
least.
I am now faced with only one or two alternatives - an Indoor or Loft
Antenna. I realise that this may restrict me to 2m only but at least it
will be better than nothing - or to operate mobile only.
Has anyone on the group got any suggestions ? I have a fair sized loft with
approx. 2.5m headroom, which runs the whole width of the house -almost
30ft. - is there anything I use in the loft like a loop Antenna for instance
? Or a fixed Station Antenna ?

Thaks for your help
John
M3IIV

Dear John,

It has been my experience that the inefficiency of loft antennas make
them nearly useless. However, you have to work with what you've got.
My suggestion would be to build the best 20 meter dipole antenna you
can build for the space available. Try to keep the ends of the antenna
as far away from anything that absorbs RF as possible - even wood and
brick do absorb RF. If necessary, use loading coils in the dipole to
get the dipole resonant (at 14.070 MHz). Think about PSK31 as an
operational mode because that gives you the best bang for the buck in
terms of being heard 'round the world and being able to hear others in
adverse conditions.

Bob, W9DMK, Dahlgren, VA
http://www.qsl.net/w9dmk

There is a few possibilities except putting an antenna in the loft. I`ve
read an article on the www amount tuning the rain gutter as an antenna.
An other option is to just put up your antenna while transmitting. The
antenna can be a telescopic 16' fishing rod with the antenna wire taped in
the bottom of each joint. An adoption of this link
http://pages.zdnet.com/radio_k7zb/id8.html

Make an STL and run it on NVIS by putting it horizontal abt 2' above the
ground. http://www.qsl.net/aa5tb/loop.html

If you have a garden get a flagpole of glass fiber and run a wire inside the
pole with an auto tuner by the base and fed by an underground coax ( the
other option is to feed it by a duplet coax and tuner inside).

If you goggle a bit on the net for "stelth antenna" you will probably find
something suitable for your needs.

Regards

Geir

"Simon Smith" wrote in message
...
I have been refused permission for any kind of outdoor Antenna due to the
area in which I live in the UK having "permitted development rights
removed"
I think that this may be a conservation area. Having recently passed the
foundation course I am getting impatient - and dissapointed to say the
least.
I am now faced with only one or two alternatives - an Indoor or Loft
Antenna. I realise that this may restrict me to 2m only but at least it
will be better than nothing - or to operate mobile only.
Has anyone on the group got any suggestions ? I have a fair sized loft
with approx. 2.5m headroom, which runs the whole width of the
house -almost 30ft. - is there anything I use in the loft like a loop
Antenna for instance ? Or a fixed Station Antenna ?

Thaks for your help
John
M3IIV

I forgot this one
http://users.erols.com/k3mt/graswire/graswire.htm

"Simon Smith" wrote in message
...
I have been refused permission for any kind of outdoor Antenna due to the
area in which I live in the UK having "permitted development rights
removed"
I think that this may be a conservation area. Having recently passed the
foundation course I am getting impatient - and dissapointed to say the
least.
I am now faced with only one or two alternatives - an Indoor or Loft
Antenna. I realise that this may restrict me to 2m only but at least it
will be better than nothing - or to operate mobile only.
Has anyone on the group got any suggestions ? I have a fair sized loft
with approx. 2.5m headroom, which runs the whole width of the
house -almost 30ft. - is there anything I use in the loft like a loop
Antenna for instance ? Or a fixed Station Antenna ?

Thaks for your help
John
M3IIV

"Simon Smith" wrote in message
...
I have been refused permission for any kind of outdoor Antenna due to the
area in which I live in the UK having "permitted development rights
removed"
I think that this may be a conservation area. Having recently passed the
foundation course I am getting impatient - and dissapointed to say the
least.
I am now faced with only one or two alternatives - an Indoor or Loft
Antenna. I realise that this may restrict me to 2m only but at least it
will be better than nothing - or to operate mobile only.
Has anyone on the group got any suggestions ? I have a fair sized loft
with approx. 2.5m headroom, which runs the whole width of the
house -almost 30ft. - is there anything I use in the loft like a loop
Antenna for instance ? Or a fixed Station Antenna ?

Thaks for your help
John
M3IIV

John,
If you string a wire antenna outside, can they do anything to you other than
have you take it down? Some people in your position have gotten away with
it. You could also put a 20 m vertical inside a plastic pipe, and call it a
flagpole; radials might get a little touchy.

Tam/WB2TT

John,

The most power-efficient antenna which will fit into a loft is the so-called
magnetic loop.

A loop, 2 or 2.5-metres square, or a circular or broad rectangular loop of
the same perimeter, made with 25mm plumbers' copper pipe will work
reasonably well at frequencies as low as the 160m band.

The greater the area enclosed by the loop and the greater the conductor
diameter, the greater the efficiency.

A remotely-controlled, slow-motion, vacuum tuning capacitor (1000pF for
160m) can be expensive. But capacitors rapidly get progressively much
smaller on the 80 and 40m bands, etc. A range of three bands, eg., 80, 40
and 20m, can be covered with one capacitor.

Very high efficiency, comparable with a 1/2-wave dipole can be acheived at
the higher frequencies within a much smaller space.

Whether you make one or purchase one, or just amuse yourself with figures
you can compare performance versus dimensions by downloading program
MAGLOOP4 from website below. Download in a few seconds and run immediately.
----
.................................................. ..........
Regards from Reg, G4FGQ
For Free Radio Design Software go to
http://www.btinternet.com/~g4fgq.regp
.................................................. ..........

Simon Smith wrote:
I have been refused permission for any kind of outdoor Antenna due to the
area in which I live in the UK having "permitted development rights
removed"
I think that this may be a conservation area. Having recently passed the
foundation course I am getting impatient - and dissapointed to say the
least.
I am now faced with only one or two alternatives - an Indoor or Loft
Antenna. I realise that this may restrict me to 2m only but at least it
will be better than nothing - or to operate mobile only.
Has anyone on the group got any suggestions ? I have a fair sized loft with
approx. 2.5m headroom, which runs the whole width of the house -almost
30ft. - is there anything I use in the loft like a loop Antenna for instance
? Or a fixed Station Antenna ?

Thaks for your help
John
M3IIV


I have run into this situation twice.

Once I installed a multiband - parallel wire - dipole for 10, 15, 20 and
40m and had reasonably good results.

The other place I installed a "Slinky dipole" which worked quite well on
10, 15, 20 and 40; but was marginal on 80m. Also had the disadvantage
that I had to go up to change bands.

Friends facing the same situation have used wire loop around the outside
of the house, and a hinged vertical which lay behind a fence and only
came up after dark.

Good luck
Dave

Hi John,

I had a similar problem and initially tried a Buddipole dipole in the
attic. It worked but not too well and also flooded the house with RFI.
I then switched to a screwdriver antenna hidden in a rubbermaid shed
and it works fine. See: http://www.qrz.com/w4tqt

Ron, W4TQT

Simon Smith wrote:
I have been refused permission for any kind of outdoor Antenna due to the
area in which I live in the UK having "permitted development rights
removed"
I think that this may be a conservation area. Having recently passed the
foundation course I am getting impatient - and dissapointed to say the
least.
I am now faced with only one or two alternatives - an Indoor or Loft
Antenna. I realise that this may restrict me to 2m only but at least it
will be better than nothing - or to operate mobile only.
Has anyone on the group got any suggestions ? I have a fair sized loft with
approx. 2.5m headroom, which runs the whole width of the house -almost
30ft. - is there anything I use in the loft like a loop Antenna for instance
? Or a fixed Station Antenna ?

Thaks for your help
John
M3IIV

John- must second Reg- for an antenna for 20-10 meters. AEA used to make
such an antenna (cant remember the name, but think now made by MFJ. As
to higher freqs (dont laugh too hard) a friend, in K.Falls, OREGON
lived in an apartment with a loft - placed a rotator up in it, with a
combination 3 element 2 meter quad, nested inside a 2 element 6 meter
quad. One caviat, tho, make sure that if it is insulated (the loft),
that no alumiuium foil is on it for a vapor barrier! (makes a great
faraday shield!) Such an antenna is indeed worthy, as he worked ZL/VK,
as well as the east coast during f2, as well as multihop openings on
Eskip! one other thing to consider is , if you have ground fault
outlets, they are suceptable to RF tripping them, as many have found
out! As info-- Jim NN7K


Reg Edwards wrote:
John,

The most power-efficient antenna which will fit into a loft is the so-called
magnetic loop.

A loop, 2 or 2.5-metres square, or a circular or broad rectangular loop of
the same perimeter, made with 25mm plumbers' copper pipe will work
reasonably well at frequencies as low as the 160m band.

The greater the area enclosed by the loop and the greater the conductor
diameter, the greater the efficiency.

A remotely-controlled, slow-motion, vacuum tuning capacitor (1000pF for
160m) can be expensive. But capacitors rapidly get progressively much
smaller on the 80 and 40m bands, etc. A range of three bands, eg., 80, 40
and 20m, can be covered with one capacitor.

Very high efficiency, comparable with a 1/2-wave dipole can be acheived at
the higher frequencies within a much smaller space.

Whether you make one or purchase one, or just amuse yourself with figures
you can compare performance versus dimensions by downloading program
MAGLOOP4 from website below. Download in a few seconds and run immediately.
----
.................................................. .........
Regards from Reg, G4FGQ
For Free Radio Design Software go to
http://www.btinternet.com/~g4fgq.regp
.................................................. .........

Hello,

Throw as much wire as you can up in your loft, feed it in the center with
ladder line to a tuner. I used one for years. I called it a "Dog-eared
dipole" because I let the ends just droop down and along the attic floor
when I ran out of attic length. It was cut for 40 meters (33 feet per side)
and worked good enough. Since it's a balanced load, I don't have any
trouble with TVI, but it does get into the telephone sometimes. I just used
a staple gun to get it as high as I could.

Good luck & 73's
KD5ZCL


Robert Lay wrote:

On Mon, 3 Jan 2005 15:16:53 +0000 (UTC), "Simon Smith"
wrote:

I have been refused permission for any kind of outdoor Antenna due to the
area in which I live in the UK having "permitted development rights
removed"
I think that this may be a conservation area. Having recently passed the
foundation course I am getting impatient - and dissapointed to say the
least.
I am now faced with only one or two alternatives - an Indoor or Loft
Antenna. I realise that this may restrict me to 2m only but at least it
will be better than nothing - or to operate mobile only.
Has anyone on the group got any suggestions ? I have a fair sized loft
with
approx. 2.5m headroom, which runs the whole width of the house -almost
30ft. - is there anything I use in the loft like a loop Antenna for
instance ? Or a fixed Station Antenna ?

Thaks for your help
John
M3IIV

Dear John,

It has been my experience that the inefficiency of loft antennas make
them nearly useless. However, you have to work with what you've got.
My suggestion would be to build the best 20 meter dipole antenna you
can build for the space available. Try to keep the ends of the antenna
as far away from anything that absorbs RF as possible - even wood and
brick do absorb RF. If necessary, use loading coils in the dipole to
get the dipole resonant (at 14.070 MHz). Think about PSK31 as an
operational mode because that gives you the best bang for the buck in
terms of being heard 'round the world and being able to hear others in
adverse conditions.

Bob, W9DMK, Dahlgren, VA
http://www.qsl.net/w9dmk