wrote:
Seems to me that the sinusoidal standing wave with minima and maxima
at the quarter wave points can only arise with single frequency
sinusoidal excitation of the line. Are there other signals which
will produce this result?

Probably not, but that makes sinusoids unique, not magic.

What about Ramo and Whinnery's forward Poynting vector and reflected
Poynting vector? Why do you choose to ignore them?

I haven't used them because I don't need them to arrive at an answer.

You need them to keep from making the same mistakes over and over.

Why make the solution more complex than necessary?
Just to scare off the neophyte?

Nope, your solution is simple-minded.

Perhaps. Or maybe component waves are not the answer.

Then go argue with Ramo & Whinnery.

In this context, we are discussing transmission lines. I make NO
assertions about light, how rings happen, or don't, or whether the
theory and practice of optics is in way analogous to what happens
on a transmission line.

You will never understand the present topic unless you understand that
EM wave interference doesn't affect the flow of energy in the individual
waves. That is true for light and RF.
--
73, Cecil http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp



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W5DXP wrote:
You will never understand the present topic unless you understand that
EM wave interference doesn't affect the flow of energy in the individual
waves. That is true for light and RF.

I should have added: "in the absence of a physical impedance discontinuity."
If a physical impedance discontinuity exists, then of course, the flow of
energy in the individual waves is affected by reflections.
--
73, Cecil http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp



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W5DXP wrote:

wrote:
Seems to me that the sinusoidal standing wave with minima and maxima
at the quarter wave points can only arise with single frequency
sinusoidal excitation of the line. Are there other signals which
will produce this result?

Probably not, but that makes sinusoids unique, not magic.

Magic was your moniker not mine. But I am glad that you agree.

What about Ramo and Whinnery's forward Poynting vector and reflected
Poynting vector? Why do you choose to ignore them?

I haven't used them because I don't need them to arrive at an answer.

You need them to keep from making the same mistakes over and over.

I've being using p(t) = v(t) * i(t) and simply arguing that when
v(t) or i(t) is zero for all t, then there is no power.

Poynting won't change a thing. There is no P when E or H is zero.

So the debate can be had with the simpler p(t) = v(t) * i(t).
There is no need to complexify.

....Keith

wrote:
Poynting won't change a thing. There is no P when E or H is zero.

Of course, there are the two component Poynting vectors which each
contain power. How else could (Pz-/Pz+) = |rho|^2

You are continuing to confuse NET power with component power. The
NET Poynting vector is zero. The component Poynting vectors are
Pz- and Pz+ and NOT zero as explained in Ramo & Whinnery. The sum
of the two Poynting vectors is zero at certain points because they
are 180 degrees out of phase at those points. 1/4WL away, they are
in phase.
--
73, Cecil http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp



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