You never measured the incident voltage. And you refused to measure the
end of the inductor, with the capacitor removed (even with the 15 pF, it should
tell us something about Vi).




This may be true, but are you saying that a capacitor can reflect an
RMS voltage wave that is greater than the one that charges it?

Yes indeed. Resonant circuits achieve this with ease.

...Keith


Absolutely incorrect! If capacitance is defined as Coulombs/Volt, then
how are you getting more coulombs than you put in? Remember, i said Root Mean
Square voltage.

How does a capacitor reflect more power than you feed it?

It's almost time for me to cut out of this discussion, if you still don't
understand me.


Slick

Radio913 wrote:
How does a capacitor reflect more power than you feed it?

With an inductor in the circuit, the voltage on a capacitor can
be greater than the source voltage. Consider the following series
resonant circuit. What are the voltages on the cap and coil at
resonance?

100W source========1wl feedline===cap===50 ohm===coil
--
73, Cecil http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp



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Cecil Moore wrote in message ...
Radio913 wrote:
How does a capacitor reflect more power than you feed it?

With an inductor in the circuit, the voltage on a capacitor can
be greater than the source voltage. Consider the following series
resonant circuit. What are the voltages on the cap and coil at
resonance?

100W source========1wl feedline===cap===50 ohm===coil


Is that a 50 ohm resistor? And where is the ground?

Could you re-draw this, Cecil?


I was hoping Keith would measure the end of the inductor with the cap
removed, so we could get an idea of the incident voltage wave.

Slick

Dr. Slick wrote:

Cecil Moore wrote in message ...

Radio913 wrote:

How does a capacitor reflect more power than you feed it?

With an inductor in the circuit, the voltage on a capacitor can
be greater than the source voltage. Consider the following series
resonant circuit. What are the voltages on the cap and coil at
resonance?

100W source========1wl feedline===cap===50 ohm===coil

Is that a 50 ohm resistor? And where is the ground?

Yes, a 50 ohm resistor. No ground, it is a balanced system. Note
the two parallel wires.

Could you re-draw this, Cecil?

Sigh ...

+------1WL feedline--(-j500)--+
| |
100W source (50+j0)
| |
+------1WL feedline--(+j500)--+

--
73, Cecil http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp



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It's NOT very easy to tell that your two diagrams are the same, Cecil!

At any rate, at resonance, the reactances should cancel out, and the 50 ohms
should be left.


Slick

Radio913 wrote:

It's NOT very easy to tell that your two diagrams are the same, Cecil!

At any rate, at resonance, the reactances should cancel out, and the 50 ohms
should be left.

Is the voltage across the capacitor higher than the source voltage?
Is the reactive power on the capacitor higher than the source power?
--
73, Cecil http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp



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Radio913 wrote:

You never measured the incident voltage. And you refused to measure the
end of the inductor, with the capacitor removed (even with the 15 pF, it should
tell us something about Vi).

I have done my lab work and produced results consistent with
classic rho.

You have not accepted my results, possibly because they are
inconsistent with your world view.

It is now your turn to hit the lab. You will, barring error,
obtain results consistent with mine. You will be able to
measure any parameter you wish, even do other experiments,
and you will find the results are always consistent with
classic, not revised rho.

The benefit of going to the lab is all yours. You will
learn how it works. Alternatively, perhaps, you will demonstrate
that classic rho is all wrong and revised rho rules. In this
case, if YOU have done the lab work, YOU will get (and deserve)
all the glory of a major revision to transmission line theory.

If I went back to the lab you are unlikely to accept any new
results from me any more than you have accepted those to date.
Sometimes seeing is believing.

.......On the other hand, perhaps you can convince me.

Predict what the measurement will be and what it will mean.
Tell me how you did the prediction. And allow some error
bounds. Say we assume the probe is between 15 and 30 pf.

Then we'll see.

This may be true, but are you saying that a capacitor can reflect an
RMS voltage wave that is greater than the one that charges it?

Yes indeed. Resonant circuits achieve this with ease.

...Keith

Absolutely incorrect! If capacitance is defined as Coulombs/Volt, then
how are you getting more coulombs than you put in? Remember, i said Root Mean
Square voltage.

How does a capacitor reflect more power than you feed it?

It's almost time for me to cut out of this discussion, if you still don't
understand me.

I can only suggest that you go to the lab. Given your statements
above, there is a great opportunity for hands on learning here.

....Keith

I have done my lab work and produced results consistent with
classic rho.


But Classic rho didn't tell us the incident voltage. Also, the crux of
your argument was that rho= -1 should be a short, which it is not for complex
Zo.





The benefit of going to the lab is all yours. You will
learn how it works. Alternatively, perhaps, you will demonstrate
that classic rho is all wrong and revised rho rules. In this
case, if YOU have done the lab work, YOU will get (and deserve)
all the glory of a major revision to transmission line theory.


This is not a revision. This is already in the published material.

And i have plenty of lab experience, thank you very much.




If I went back to the lab you are unlikely to accept any new
results from me any more than you have accepted those to date.
Sometimes seeing is believing.



Right. And you probably won't accept any new data from me.



This may be true, but are you saying that a capacitor can reflect an
RMS voltage wave that is greater than the one that charges it?

Yes indeed. Resonant circuits achieve this with ease.

...Keith


Absolutely incorrect! If capacitance is defined as Coulombs/Volt, then
how are you getting more coulombs than you put in? Remember, i said Root Mean
Square voltage.

How does a capacitor reflect more power than you feed it?

It's almost time for me to cut out of this discussion, if you still don't
understand me.


Slick