Nothing subjective about it, Cecil.

The Shootout uses actual measurements with a calibrated receiver system, and a
"level playing field".
:-)
Check out the HFpack website for previous Shootout Reports from 2001 and 2002,
and if you think you could do a better job, Cecil, please join us and show up
at the Shootout to help with the measurements and setup. We would be happy to
welcome you as a volunteer.
http://www.hfpack.com

In the past few years, we have simply measured antennas vs a reference dipole.
This year we are measuring complete systems vs each other.

5MHz in USA has an authorized power limit of 50W_into_a_dipole. The 5MHz
reference dipole has been clarified by FCC as a "free space" comparison for
calculation purposes. Most pedestrian and bicycle antennas for 5MHz have way
more than 3 dB loss. Some of the antennas have 6dB loss or worse.

By the way, only USB voice is permitted on 5MHz in USA.

Bonnie KQ6XA

Expeditionradio wrote:
Nothing subjective about it, Cecil.

On SSB, I can double my power output by whistling into the
microphone. That seems pretty subjective to me.

On the 5 MHz thing, since a dipole is almost 100% efficient,
does the 50 watt rule mean radiated power? Can I run 500 watts
mobile if my mobile antenna is 9% efficient?
--
73, Cecil http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp



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Cecil Moore wrote:

On the 5 MHz thing, since a dipole is almost 100% efficient,
does the 50 watt rule mean radiated power? Can I run 500 watts
mobile if my mobile antenna is 9% efficient?

That would appear to be the case:

http://www.arrl.org/FandES/field/reg...faq.html#three

73 ... WA7AA


--

Anti-spam measu look me up on qrz.com if you need to reply directly

Zoran Brlecic wrote:
Cecil Moore wrote:
On the 5 MHz thing, since a dipole is almost 100% efficient,
does the 50 watt rule mean radiated power? Can I run 500 watts
mobile if my mobile antenna is 9% efficient?

That would appear to be the case:
http://www.arrl.org/FandES/field/reg...faq.html#three

Has anyone realized that will make a hamstick get out just as
well as a bugcatcher?
--
73, Cecil, W5DXP

Zoran Brlecic wrote:
http://www.arrl.org/FandES/field/reg...faq.html#three

Wow, all sorts of ramifications. A one-wavelength dipole has
about 3dB gain over a 1/2WL dipole so one must reduce one's
power to 25 watts.

OTOH, since a 1/2WL dipole over ground has about 6dB gain over
a 1/4WL ground-mounted vertical, can one run 200 watts when
using a 1/4WL vertical?
--
73, Cecil, W5DXP

Cecil,

I am no expert on the "legalese", but it appears the FCC has specified power
in terms of Effective Radiated Power (ERP). The standard is no more than
50-watts radiated by a dipole in free space. My interpretation is that you
look at the performance of your antenna at its maximum radiation point
(i.e., the azimuth & elevation) and compare it to the radiation from a
dipole in free space at its maximum radiation point(s). If your antenna has
less radiated power than the dipole, then you can feed more power to the
antenna (up to the point that you get the same radiation as a dipole in free
space).

I think this is the first time the FCC has used ERP (which includes antenna
gain and feedline loss) as a power specification for amateur radio.

Greg Queen
AE6MF


"Cecil Moore" wrote in message
...
Zoran Brlecic wrote:
http://www.arrl.org/FandES/field/reg...faq.html#three

Wow, all sorts of ramifications. A one-wavelength dipole has
about 3dB gain over a 1/2WL dipole so one must reduce one's
power to 25 watts.

OTOH, since a 1/2WL dipole over ground has about 6dB gain over
a 1/4WL ground-mounted vertical, can one run 200 watts when
using a 1/4WL vertical?
--
73, Cecil, W5DXP

Hm. That means that you can't run more than about 16-20 watts to an
ordinary dipole, since a dipole over ground produces a field strength
that's typically 4-5 dB greater than a dipole in free space. See, for
example, the EZNEC example BYDipole.EZ, which shows a field strength of
6.82 dBi, or about 4.7 dB greater than a free space dipole.

Roy Lewallen, W7EL

Greg Queen wrote:
Cecil,

I am no expert on the "legalese", but it appears the FCC has specified power
in terms of Effective Radiated Power (ERP). The standard is no more than
50-watts radiated by a dipole in free space. My interpretation is that you
look at the performance of your antenna at its maximum radiation point
(i.e., the azimuth & elevation) and compare it to the radiation from a
dipole in free space at its maximum radiation point(s). If your antenna has
less radiated power than the dipole, then you can feed more power to the
antenna (up to the point that you get the same radiation as a dipole in free
space).

I think this is the first time the FCC has used ERP (which includes antenna
gain and feedline loss) as a power specification for amateur radio.

Greg Queen
AE6MF

From: Roy W7EL wrote
Hm. That means that you can't run more than about 16-20 watts to a n
ordinary dipole, since a dipole over ground produces a field strength
that's typically 4-5 dB greater than a dipole in free space.

Roy, the FCC has clarified this issue recently in communications with ARRL. The
FCC indicated we should do all our compliance calculations for 5MHz as if the
antennas are in free space.
That certainly makes it a lot easier, doesn't it?

Bonnie KQ6XA

Greg Queen wrote:
I am no expert on the "legalese", but it appears the FCC has specified power
in terms of Effective Radiated Power (ERP). The standard is no more than
50-watts radiated by a dipole in free space. My interpretation is that you
look at the performance of your antenna at its maximum radiation point
(i.e., the azimuth & elevation) and compare it to the radiation from a
dipole in free space at its maximum radiation point(s). If your antenna has
less radiated power than the dipole, then you can feed more power to the
antenna (up to the point that you get the same radiation as a dipole in free
space).

But a horizontal dipole over ground has a gain over a dipole in free space.
Consider a horizontal dipole with a maximum gain of 6 dBi Vs a free space
dipole with a maximum gain of 2.14 dBi. Do you have to decrease the power
to the horizontal dipole over ground to bring it down to 2.14 dBi?

Consider a vertical dipole with a maximum gain of 0 dBi. Can the power
be increased to obtain the free space 2.14 dBi or 6 dBi over ground?
--
73, Cecil http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp



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Greg Queen wrote:
I am no expert on the "legalese", but it appears
the FCC has specified power in terms of Effective
Radiated Power (ERP). The standard is no more than
50-watts radiated by a dipole in free space.

% Bonnie KQ6XA (in a slightly different thread):
% Roy, the FCC has clarified this issue recently
% in communications with ARRL. The FCC indicated
% we should do all our compliance calculations
% for 5MHz as if the antennas are in free space.

Cecil, W5DXP:
Consider a vertical dipole with a maximum gain of
0 dBi. Can the power be increased to obtain the
free space 2.14 dBi or 6 dBi over ground?

Don't ask.
Don't tell.
Don't pursue.

K7JEB