What characteristics would a 1/2 wave dipole have if one side was near
vertical, and the other side buried along the ground? Would it act like a
poorly counterpoised groundplane vertical, or something else? Any
redeeming qualities?



Ed

You guessed it...It's a vertical with one radial...
Qualities? Hummmm....It's a subpar dipole...
Hummmm....it's a subpar vertical too...:/
Any redeeming qualities would have to be in the eye of the beholder..MK

You guessed it...It's a vertical with one radial...
Qualities? Hummmm....It's a subpar dipole...
Hummmm....it's a subpar vertical too...:/
Any redeeming qualities would have to be in the eye of the beholder..MK


In what manner would this vertical be "subpar? "If one were looking for
for a vertical with more radiation in one direction, would this be
something to consider?


Ed

Compared to a vertical with more ground radials, I believe you'd have
less radiation in other directions rather than more in the desired
direction.

Roy Lewallen, W7EL

Ed wrote:

In what manner would this vertical be "subpar? "If one were looking for
for a vertical with more radiation in one direction, would this be
something to consider?


Ed

It would be subpar because of excess ground losses #1. You only have
one radial,
and the antenna is low to the ground.
As far as radiation in one direction, I agree with Roy. It would
probably be
about the same in that direction as another "poorly grounded" antenna,
except
that in the other directions, it would be even worse. I think in the
real world,
you will find it to be hardly directive at all. Or at least enough to
be useful
anyway...To be really directive, a vertical system needs multi
elements.
IE: phased verticals, bobtail curtains, etc...A bobtail curtain is a
mean antenna
on 40m at night. Only the curtains, and the few lucky dogs running
yagi's could
beat my elevated ground plane to VK land late at night. A friend of
mine across
town ran a bobtail curtain. He could dog my GP most every night. But
he's got
three elements compared to my one... MK

wrote:
It would be subpar because of excess ground losses #1. You only have
one radial, and the antenna is low to the ground.
As far as radiation in one direction, I agree with Roy. It would
probably be about the same in that direction as another "poorly
grounded" antenna, except that in the other directions, it would
be even worse.

EZNEC agrees. With four radials one foot above ground the gain
is -0.53 dBi. With one radial one foot above ground the gain
is -1.62 dBi in the direction of the one radial and - 6 dBi
in the opposite direction.
--
73, Cecil http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp



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On Sun, 30 Jan 2005 22:56:55 -0600, Cecil Moore
wrote:

wrote:
It would be subpar because of excess ground losses #1. You only have
one radial, and the antenna is low to the ground.
As far as radiation in one direction, I agree with Roy. It would
probably be about the same in that direction as another "poorly
grounded" antenna, except that in the other directions, it would
be even worse.

EZNEC agrees. With four radials one foot above ground the gain
is -0.53 dBi. With one radial one foot above ground the gain
is -1.62 dBi in the direction of the one radial and - 6 dBi
in the opposite direction.


How does it rate it with that one radial buried in the ground as in
the OP rather than above the ground?


--
73 for now
Buck
N4PGW

On 30 Jan 2005 14:41:26 -0800, wrote:

It would be subpar because of excess ground losses #1. You only have
one radial,
and the antenna is low to the ground.
As far as radiation in one direction, I agree with Roy. It would
probably be
about the same in that direction as another "poorly grounded" antenna,
except
that in the other directions, it would be even worse. I think in the
real world,
you will find it to be hardly directive at all. Or at least enough to
be useful
anyway...To be really directive, a vertical system needs multi
elements.
IE: phased verticals, bobtail curtains, etc...A bobtail curtain is a
mean antenna
on 40m at night. Only the curtains, and the few lucky dogs running
yagi's could
beat my elevated ground plane to VK land late at night. A friend of
mine across
town ran a bobtail curtain. He could dog my GP most every night. But
he's got
three elements compared to my one... MK


Just for information along this line, the N2GG is a form of curtain
antenna. It is only two hanging elements, but apparently a great
little antenna that works better than a dipole.


--
73 for now
Buck
N4PGW

On Sun, 30 Jan 2005 06:01:26 GMT, Ed
wrote:



What characteristics would a 1/2 wave dipole have if one side was near
vertical, and the other side buried along the ground? Would it act like a
poorly counterpoised groundplane vertical, or something else? Any
redeeming qualities?



Ed


It would fit on your real estate. If you add three radials you would
have a good ground plane.

I have had in the past the Taylor Radio 4 band vertical and the
Hustler 5 band vertical. I ran both of them with only a 6 foot ground
rod in the ground with no radials. They worked. I doubt that they
worked as well as my dipoles at 65 feet or so, but they did work.

Why do you want the antenna? That may determine how good it is. If
you want a 'money is no object super duper DX antenna', then it won't
be worth the time of day. But if you need an antenna to fit precisely
where that antenna is so you can occasionally rag chew and not spend
any more money for an antenna, it will be perfect.


--
Buck
N4PGW

Ed wrote:
What characteristics would a 1/2 wave dipole have if one side was near
vertical, and the other side buried along the ground? Would it act like a
poorly counterpoised groundplane vertical, or something else? Any
redeeming qualities?

When two radials are 180 degrees apart and elevated, they tend
to cancel the radiation from each other. When you bury one
radial, you ensure that ~half your RF energy is lost. If you
bury that one radial vertically, you do indeed lose half your
signal since you have put half of your dipole underground.
Ground mounted verticals give up approximately half their
power to ground losses. Then they give up approximately another
3 dB to a rotatable dipole. Approximately 10 ohms of the feedpoint
impedance for mobile antennas is ground losses. (Please note that
everything I said is approximate. :-)
--
73, Cecil http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp


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