Actually, and back to reality:
I am in the San Joaquin Valley in California, while this used to be one of
the richest agricultural areas in the world, decades of double and triple
farming has depleated the soil of many of the plentiful nutrients (salts,
trace minerals, metals, etc.)
Also, this area was like a tule swap before levies were built to hold back
the water, i.e., a peat bog!
Those who mentioned a poor and lossy ground condition might have something
there...
This area may naturally favor the 1/2 properties.

But then too, maybe it is only those damn aliens with their mind control
which are placing these ideas in my head! grin Yanno, agriculture uses a
lot of those darn illegal aliens' labor!!!

Regards

"John Smith" wrote in message
...
Well....
I could have stated a less controversial design I guess.
Such as an antiresonate antenna cap--folded from aluminum foil, and
intended
to cancel out the moon bounced mind control rays from the aliens.
Since totally shielding the walls of my home with silver foil has failed
to
block the penetration of these "antenna rays" into my home, the cap might
be
just the ticket!
The burning question here would be what wavelength of foil the cap should
it
be folded from, and heck, I don't even think the frequency of their mind
control rays registers on earth meters!
It is a conspiracy, I TELL YA!!! grin

Regards
"John Smith" wrote in message
...
My question(s):

For an example, on the 10 meter band:
If I take a 28" whip and mount it at the end of helical wound coil (wound
on
1" diameter form), where the "wire length" of the coil, PLUS, the length
of
the whip (28" + coil wire length) is equal to 1/2 wavelength (electrical
length)--BUT, the overall physical length of the antenna (top, tip of
whip
to base of helical wound coil) is 1/4 wavelength, what would the
radiation
pattern of such an antenna be?

Would it favor the pattern of a 1/4 or 1/2 wave antenna--or, would the
pattern be a compromise between the two--or, would the pattern be totally
unrelated to either?

What could I expect the impedance of such an antenna be? Would the
reactance be capacitive or inductive? What would be the best way to
provide
a match to 50 ohm coax from such an antenna?

What software is available to model such an antenna?

Thanks in advance,
warmest regards

Well, the "1/4 physical, 1/2 electrical" (double quarter as my friend refers
to it) will just have remain as it is.
Its' advantage of being lighter and easier to handle, while presenting less
of a wind load and "leverage" again the mast and mounting hardware allows me
to raise it to a greater height than the full 1/2--NOT to mention the
advantage of NO ground radials. With this advantage, its performance rivals
the full 1/2. Weather I am daft or not--I will be using this antenna for an
omnidirectional source.
Those seeking a backpacking antenna, an emergency portable antenna, or an
antenna for operation in difficult and remote areas, or those seeking
stealth (just hide it in a larger diameter PVC pipe and call it a flag
pole!) would, most likely, find this design can be used to their advantage.

This posting sequence has been an enlightening experience though, and well
worth the trouble. I have learned that most will wage a "religious war" if
they think anyone is going to challenge the generally accepted ideas and
methods.
If you insist on going on, you will run the gauntlet of nay sayers and be
attacked. Guffaws and slurs against your mental stability will assualt you.
If one is looking to try something new--this is NOT the place to discuss it.
Perhaps another news group, where those who seek to intimidate and "out
shout" true expermenters would be banned and refused posting would be a
workable alternative and more conductive to attempts to break the mold.

Regards

"John Smith" wrote in message
...
Actually, and back to reality:
I am in the San Joaquin Valley in California, while this used to be one of
the richest agricultural areas in the world, decades of double and triple
farming has depleated the soil of many of the plentiful nutrients (salts,
trace minerals, metals, etc.)
Also, this area was like a tule swap before levies were built to hold back
the water, i.e., a peat bog!
Those who mentioned a poor and lossy ground condition might have something
there...
This area may naturally favor the 1/2 properties.

But then too, maybe it is only those damn aliens with their mind control
which are placing these ideas in my head! grin Yanno, agriculture uses
a
lot of those darn illegal aliens' labor!!!

Regards

"John Smith" wrote in message
...
Well....
I could have stated a less controversial design I guess.
Such as an antiresonate antenna cap--folded from aluminum foil, and
intended
to cancel out the moon bounced mind control rays from the aliens.
Since totally shielding the walls of my home with silver foil has failed
to
block the penetration of these "antenna rays" into my home, the cap might
be
just the ticket!
The burning question here would be what wavelength of foil the cap should
it
be folded from, and heck, I don't even think the frequency of their mind
control rays registers on earth meters!
It is a conspiracy, I TELL YA!!! grin

Regards
"John Smith" wrote in message
...
My question(s):

For an example, on the 10 meter band:
If I take a 28" whip and mount it at the end of helical wound coil
(wound
on
1" diameter form), where the "wire length" of the coil, PLUS, the length
of
the whip (28" + coil wire length) is equal to 1/2 wavelength (electrical
length)--BUT, the overall physical length of the antenna (top, tip of
whip
to base of helical wound coil) is 1/4 wavelength, what would the
radiation
pattern of such an antenna be?

Would it favor the pattern of a 1/4 or 1/2 wave antenna--or, would the
pattern be a compromise between the two--or, would the pattern be
totally
unrelated to either?

What could I expect the impedance of such an antenna be? Would the
reactance be capacitive or inductive? What would be the best way to
provide
a match to 50 ohm coax from such an antenna?

What software is available to model such an antenna?

Thanks in advance,
warmest regards

This posting sequence has been an enlightening experience though, and
well
worth the trouble. I have learned that most will wage a "religious
war" if
they think anyone is going to challenge the generally accepted ideas
and
methods.
If you insist on going on, you will run the gauntlet of nay sayers and
be
attacked. Guffaws and slurs against your mental stability will
assualt you.
If one is looking to try something new--this is NOT the place to
discuss it.
Perhaps another news group, where those who seek to intimidate and
"out
shout" true expermenters would be banned and refused posting would be
a
workable alternative and more conductive to attempts to break the
mold.
.................................................. .....................
I think I'm going to vomit....Are you related to Art? If not,
you should be....Whine, whine, whine.... You think you are the
first one to try that? I tried that using my helical mobile
antennas years ago...Big deal...BTW...I ended up preferring the
normal 1/4 wave config for a mobile antenna...Just in case thou
art interested...I also agree with one poster...The biggest change
will be with the current distribution...
They were making CB antenna *years* ago, using that "extended winding"
type of design...Many were a 5/8's wl winding. Sheesh....Get a grip.
Quit whining...Religious war? Slurs against your stability? Will be
soon, if you don't quit this retched "poor ole maligned me" whining.
You never saw me say anything about the antenna itself. Why? Cuz
being I have tried it, I know they can work. But like I said,
I ended up not using it as the normal 1/4 wl config worked better
on my car. Trust me...The idea has been tried long ago.
There is nothing wrong with posting something new here. Although
to others, it might not be new at all.
In fact, if you are *actually* interested in if it's viable,
this is probably the best place. You won't get suger coated
bullcrap here...
Now, if you are trying to push some funky device like say the EH
antenna, yep, you probably don't wanna be here...Go to a yahoo
forum where all have to register to join. That way you can control
all the posts, and make the outcome of your "discovery" come out
any way you want. Sheesh...
MK

Oh yeah, I forgot to make mention of the "nuts"...

Regards

wrote in message
oups.com...
This posting sequence has been an enlightening experience though, and
well
worth the trouble. I have learned that most will wage a "religious
war" if
they think anyone is going to challenge the generally accepted ideas
and
methods.
If you insist on going on, you will run the gauntlet of nay sayers and
be
attacked. Guffaws and slurs against your mental stability will
assualt you.
If one is looking to try something new--this is NOT the place to
discuss it.
Perhaps another news group, where those who seek to intimidate and
"out
shout" true expermenters would be banned and refused posting would be
a
workable alternative and more conductive to attempts to break the
mold.
.................................................. ....................
I think I'm going to vomit....Are you related to Art? If not,
you should be....Whine, whine, whine.... You think you are the
first one to try that? I tried that using my helical mobile
antennas years ago...Big deal...BTW...I ended up preferring the
normal 1/4 wave config for a mobile antenna...Just in case thou
art interested...I also agree with one poster...The biggest change
will be with the current distribution...
They were making CB antenna *years* ago, using that "extended winding"
type of design...Many were a 5/8's wl winding. Sheesh....Get a grip.
Quit whining...Religious war? Slurs against your stability? Will be
soon, if you don't quit this retched "poor ole maligned me" whining.
You never saw me say anything about the antenna itself. Why? Cuz
being I have tried it, I know they can work. But like I said,
I ended up not using it as the normal 1/4 wl config worked better
on my car. Trust me...The idea has been tried long ago.
There is nothing wrong with posting something new here. Although
to others, it might not be new at all.
In fact, if you are *actually* interested in if it's viable,
this is probably the best place. You won't get suger coated
bullcrap here...
Now, if you are trying to push some funky device like say the EH
antenna, yep, you probably don't wanna be here...Go to a yahoo
forum where all have to register to join. That way you can control
all the posts, and make the outcome of your "discovery" come out
any way you want. Sheesh...
MK

John Smith wrote:
Oh yeah, I forgot to make mention of the "nuts"...

Regards

wrote in message
oups.com...

This posting sequence has been an enlightening experience though, and
well
worth the trouble. I have learned that most will wage a "religious
war" if
they think anyone is going to challenge the generally accepted ideas
and
methods.
If you insist on going on, you will run the gauntlet of nay sayers and
be
attacked. Guffaws and slurs against your mental stability will
assualt you.
If one is looking to try something new--this is NOT the place to
discuss it.
Perhaps another news group, where those who seek to intimidate and
"out
shout" true expermenters would be banned and refused posting would be
a
workable alternative and more conductive to attempts to break the
mold.
................................................ ......................
I think I'm going to vomit....Are you related to Art? If not,
you should be....Whine, whine, whine.... You think you are the
first one to try that? I tried that using my helical mobile
antennas years ago...Big deal...BTW...I ended up preferring the
normal 1/4 wave config for a mobile antenna...Just in case thou
art interested...I also agree with one poster...The biggest change
will be with the current distribution...
They were making CB antenna *years* ago, using that "extended winding"
type of design...Many were a 5/8's wl winding. Sheesh....Get a grip.
Quit whining...Religious war? Slurs against your stability? Will be
soon, if you don't quit this retched "poor ole maligned me" whining.
You never saw me say anything about the antenna itself. Why? Cuz
being I have tried it, I know they can work. But like I said,
I ended up not using it as the normal 1/4 wl config worked better
on my car. Trust me...The idea has been tried long ago.
There is nothing wrong with posting something new here. Although
to others, it might not be new at all.
In fact, if you are *actually* interested in if it's viable,
this is probably the best place. You won't get suger coated
bullcrap here...
Now, if you are trying to push some funky device like say the EH
antenna, yep, you probably don't wanna be here...Go to a yahoo
forum where all have to register to join. That way you can control
all the posts, and make the outcome of your "discovery" come out
any way you want. Sheesh...
MK





Mark is right. This is an ancient antenna. Anyone interested can
look up the article on normal-mode helical antennas in the
_Antenna Engineering Handbook_ and get some references at the
end of the chapter for further study. Most of references date from the
'60s and '70s.
73,
Tom Donaly, KA6RUH

Mark is right. This is an ancient antenna. Anyone interested can
look up the article on normal-mode helical antennas in the
_Antenna Engineering Handbook_ and get some references at the
end of the chapter for further study. Most of references date from the

'60s and '70s.

Of course it is. It often amuses me how often stuff is
"reinvented". Heck, I've even done it myself by accident...
But I never had any thoughts of filing a patent, or
whatever...I never had any delusions that surely no one
else in the world had thought of it, and it ended up as such.
I think people forget just how much antenna
experimentation has already been done. There was loads
of experimentation done from the 30's thru the 50's,
covering nearly everything imaginable. Ole John calls
me a nut, but if I hear someone say, "they all think
all is known about antennas" one more time, I'm gonna
puke. He and Art sound like the same whiny broke record.
Almost exactly to the word. Of course, no one here thinks
*all* is known about antennas. But I can assure you that
most all the theory has been pretty much etched in stone
for quite a few years. No one is going to come up with some
new gadjit that is going to break all the rules. Just
ain't gonna happen. Sure, minor touch ups of theory will
surely occur, but nothing major is going to be changed,
or it would have by now. It's comparible to the field of
aeronautics/aircraft,etc... People will continue to design
new aircraft, but no one is going to design something that
breaks all the rules. I've got a large walk in closet full of
QST's going back to the middle 30's. Thumbing through a few
of those 30's thru 50's issues might surprise some as to
how much was known even at that time. Nothing major as far
as theory as changed since that time, and that was a half
century ago. These days, if someone tries something that is
truly new, you can bet it will be pretty "out there". But
it won't break any rules of theory. It will just be a new
method of applying it. Unfortunately for John, what he is
doing is old news...But at least it's not something silly..
It is a viable antenna. And thus, not to say it's not worth
messing with...Everything I use is old news...Some of the
old news, will always be the best news...IE: no one is going
to be able to improve much on the efficiency of a simple
coax fed dipole on HF...MK

wrote:
But I can assure you that
most all the theory has been pretty much etched in stone
for quite a few years. No one is going to come up with some
new gadjit that is going to break all the rules. Just
ain't gonna happen.

Assume a future antenna emitting entangled photons and
explain to us how present antenna theory handles non-locality.
--
73, Cecil http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp


----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==----
http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 100,000 Newsgroups
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" bravely wrote to "All" (27 Mar 05 01:31:48)
--- on the heady topic of " physical 1/4, electrical 1/2 wavelength"

nm From:
nm Xref: aeinews rec.radio.amateur.antenna:27324

nm Of course, no one here thinks
nm *all* is known about antennas. But I can assure you that
nm most all the theory has been pretty much etched in stone
nm for quite a few years. No one is going to come up with some
nm new gadjit that is going to break all the rules. Just
nm ain't gonna happen. Sure, minor touch ups of theory will
nm surely occur, but nothing major is going to be changed,
nm or it would have by now. It's comparible to the field of

And then along comes an amateur wannabe physicist like Albert Einstein
and turns theory on its ear... bringing the world kicking and
screaming into the atomic age of satellites and relativity. The Nobel
review folk didn't even know what to make of most his papers and gave
him a kupiedoll for describing the photoelectric effect. This amateur
wannabe generated more change than had been accomplished in the
previous 1,000 years. And new ramifications are still being found for
e=mc^2. Every scientist in 1905 was sure nothing major could be found
too. We are in 2005 now and some geek in a broom closet is just about
to unleash a comparable cataclysmic change to our world and one better
count on it!

A*s*i*m*o*v

.... The manure is sure to impact the rotary ventilator...

On Fri, 25 Mar 2005 15:21:27 -0800, "John Smith"
wrote:

Perhaps another news group, where those who seek to intimidate and "out
shout" true expermenters would be banned and refused posting would be a
workable alternative and more conductive to attempts to break the mold.

Hi John,

You will have found a very special population of scribblers at that
halcyon news group. That few who were untutored with the design of
millions of rubber duckies would be the only throng capable of hailing
true expermenters of the helical 1/2 wavelength antenna mold.

Drop us a note when you find the select. Stay away from their
kool-aid.

73's
Richard Clark, KB7QHC