"garigue" wrote
I just put in a set of under cabinet halogen 20 watters ..... boy what a
bunch of crap RF wise. There is a 12 V supply that virtually eliminates
the
AM band and somewhat less on HF. This is at distance of 20 plus feet. Of
course they were made in Hang Chow ... no doubt somewhere east of
Ft.Wayne.

God Bless 73 KI3R Tom Popovic Belle Vernon Pa.

Tom, I have the same awful interference from new under-cabinet halogens.
Similar to your report, mine create terrible interference only through MF,
and limited hash on HF also. Mine are at least 40' away, and the station
power has its own load center/branch panel. The lamps are the switchable
2-level (not variable) and interference is present both settings.

I noticed a brand of halogens at Home Depot (now, of course) that state "No
Radio interference". Figures.

Jack
Virginia Beach

On Sun, 3 Apr 2005 11:35:15 -0400, "Jack Painter"
wrote:


"garigue" wrote
I just put in a set of under cabinet halogen 20 watters ..... boy what a
bunch of crap RF wise. There is a 12 V supply that virtually eliminates
the
AM band and somewhat less on HF. This is at distance of 20 plus feet. Of
course they were made in Hang Chow ... no doubt somewhere east of
Ft.Wayne.

God Bless 73 KI3R Tom Popovic Belle Vernon Pa.

Tom, I have the same awful interference from new under-cabinet halogens.
Similar to your report, mine create terrible interference only through MF,
and limited hash on HF also. Mine are at least 40' away, and the station
power has its own load center/branch panel. The lamps are the switchable
2-level (not variable) and interference is present both settings.

I noticed a brand of halogens at Home Depot (now, of course) that state "No
Radio interference". Figures.

Jack
Virginia Beach

You have the same disorder I do - the stuff you need comes on the
market after you need it 8-} As to the interference, I'll go out on a
limb and say it's the power supply not the lamp - I've hooked up
halogen lamps directly to 12VDC and had no interference. Wall warts
are, as has been mentioned here many times, notorious for RF
interference.
Howard

"Howard" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 3 Apr 2005 11:35:15 -0400, "Jack Painter"
wrote:


"garigue" wrote
I just put in a set of under cabinet halogen 20 watters ..... boy what
a
bunch of crap RF wise. There is a 12 V supply that virtually eliminates
the
AM band and somewhat less on HF. This is at distance of 20 plus feet.
Of
course they were made in Hang Chow ... no doubt somewhere east of
Ft.Wayne.

God Bless 73 KI3R Tom Popovic Belle Vernon Pa.

Tom, I have the same awful interference from new under-cabinet halogens.
Similar to your report, mine create terrible interference only through MF,
and limited hash on HF also. Mine are at least 40' away, and the station
power has its own load center/branch panel. The lamps are the switchable
2-level (not variable) and interference is present both settings.

I noticed a brand of halogens at Home Depot (now, of course) that state
"No
Radio interference". Figures.

Jack
Virginia Beach

You have the same disorder I do - the stuff you need comes on the
market after you need it 8-} As to the interference, I'll go out on a
limb and say it's the power supply not the lamp - I've hooked up
halogen lamps directly to 12VDC and had no interference. Wall warts
are, as has been mentioned here many times, notorious for RF
interference.


There are two classes of warts. A simple transformer will convert 120 VAC to
maybe 12 VAC. As long as the transformer core does not go into saturation,
then this wart produces zero EMI. OTOH, a wart that rectifies the AC to DC
has the potential to create considerable EMI. Hams should always consider
the possibility of RF pollution from anything they install in or around
their shack. Variable speed fans, adjustable lighting devices, arc-discharge
lighting, battery chargers, wireless network modems and other personal
electronics all need to be evaluated for their EMI potential. As a ham, you
shouldn't be surprised to find that fluorescent or HID lighting causes RF
noise!!

You can partially protect your shack by always looking for an FCC or CE
compliance marking. Assuming that the devices are legally marked, FCC & CE
marking is a bit of evidence that the product will be limited in RF
emissions. But remember, the standards are based on "average consumer"
conditions, NOT on a special consumer sticking the product in proximity to a
sensitive receiver. As a ham, you place yourself in the position of an
"expert user" of consumer electronic devices; you are no longer a clueless
appliance buyer, but someone who understands RF energy and the vagaries of
its creation and propagation.

You can either accept the responsibility to control EMI in your hobby, or go
back to 11 meters and cable TV.


Ed
WB6WSN

You can either accept the responsibility to control EMI in your hobby, or
go
back to 11 meters and cable TV.


Ed
WB6WSN


Ya know Ed I have never met you so I can't say for sure if you are a
pontificating idiot or not. I have never been on CB and the cable TV is
mostly the History Channel and such. A "teaching post" , albeit boring,
would be acceptable but the above zinger is not funny nor complimentary of
the guys on this thread. My installing of the halogens were from the point
of my back 9 of life eyesight when connecting things in back of the
equipment not to be on when I was working quasi land with 5 watts. The
condescending attitude displayed in your pontification is like many hams I
have run across in the last 40 years of this endeavor and causes our service
to loose valuable young people. Unfortunately I am not young but on the
other hand I have been around enough to recognize those who would lord over
others from a "technical" standpoint. Yep there Ed I have used bypass caps,
torroids, made brute force filters etc. to make my operating a bit more
enjoyable ...now if they only had a filter for your type of letter and
attitude we all would be ahead.

73 Tom Popovic KI3R

"garigue" wrote in message
...


You can either accept the responsibility to control EMI in your hobby, or
go
back to 11 meters and cable TV.


Ed
WB6WSN


Ya know Ed I have never met you so I can't say for sure if you are a
pontificating idiot or not. I have never been on CB and the cable TV is
mostly the History Channel and such. A "teaching post" , albeit boring,
would be acceptable but the above zinger is not funny nor complimentary of
the guys on this thread. My installing of the halogens were from the
point
of my back 9 of life eyesight when connecting things in back of the
equipment not to be on when I was working quasi land with 5 watts. The
condescending attitude displayed in your pontification is like many hams I
have run across in the last 40 years of this endeavor and causes our
service
to loose valuable young people. Unfortunately I am not young but on the
other hand I have been around enough to recognize those who would lord
over
others from a "technical" standpoint. Yep there Ed I have used bypass
caps,
torroids, made brute force filters etc. to make my operating a bit more
enjoyable ...now if they only had a filter for your type of letter and
attitude we all would be ahead.

73 Tom Popovic KI3R




Tom:

You can tell if I'm "pontificating" by reading my text and determining the
validity of my advice. OTOH, I am getting weary of people who choose a hobby
that involves RF propagation, and then get all whiney when they add an
obviously noisy RF source to their environment. If you want to be a ham,
then I'm going to hold you to a higher standard. And what should be an
example of not meeting that standard?

As for "losing valuable young people"; well, if some guy tells me his
arc-welding hobby interferes with his DX contesting, well, that's just too
pathetic for futher comment.

As a self-declared "old guy", I would expect you to understand the concept
of minimum standrds of performance. Remember when FCC exams really meant
something? You sound all "new-age touchy-feely", finding personal insult in
a general comment about performance standards. Now I'm truly sorry that you
interpreted my post that way, and it's too bad you couldn't say something
about the technical content. I will apologize to any technically apt CB'ers
and TV viewers who also may share your sadness, but reasons of visual
ability, dexterity and age don't excuse lack of basic RF understanding.

BTW, there IS a filter for my type of post. (True, the best filter would be
your ability to understand a post.) You can simply ignore my postings, as I
always post from the same account and I clearly identify myself. You could
also set up an automated filter process, but then that would require
technical competence in software operation, and that brings up a whole new
area in which you may find offense. Best we not go there.


--
Ed
WB6WSN
El Cajon, CA USA

Gee Ed, I don't even have a dog in this hunt, and read this newsgroup only
in hopes of learning something every now and then. But, your responses ARE
offensive and your comments generally negate any wisdom you bring to the
subject. I'll tell you how I try to keep things civil in one of these
conversations. In every case, I try to respond and conduct myself as if the
other fellows were standing in front of me eye to eye. Most of us would try
to be diplomatic, even to a complete stranger, in that situation. In some
parts of the country, or in another time, doing otherwise would earn you a
punch.

Anyway, I DO know how to filter out your posts and you've certainly earned
your position on that list.

73, Floyd - K8AC

"Floyd Sense" wrote in message
...

Gee Ed, I don't even have a dog in this hunt, and read this newsgroup only
in hopes of learning something every now and then. But, your responses
ARE offensive and your comments generally negate any wisdom you bring to
the subject. I'll tell you how I try to keep things civil in one of these
conversations. In every case, I try to respond and conduct myself as if
the other fellows were standing in front of me eye to eye. Most of us
would try to be diplomatic, even to a complete stranger, in that
situation. In some parts of the country, or in another time, doing
otherwise would earn you a punch.

Anyway, I DO know how to filter out your posts and you've certainly earned
your position on that list.

73, Floyd - K8AC




I am surprised that you would favor the person-to-person model, since you
appear to be willing to ignore my two attempts at conciliation and appear to
enjoy remaining in a self-aggreived condition. As you point out, certain
attitudes in certain places can earn you the flat-face award, and you seem
to be a determined candidate.

One of the hallmarks of wisdom is knowing when you are being insulted and
when you are being presented with an uncomfortable reminder of your
condition. As an Extra, do you really think that a ham should be surprised
to find that an arc-discharge luminary, placed in proximity to his rig,
causes RFI? I hold a ham to a slightly higher standard of understanding of
RFI than I would expect of the general populace. RF noise is a very basic
part of the RF communication hobby known as ham radio, so just how low
should the bar be set for understanding of the basics of your hobby? If the
basics are too challenging for you, then perhaps you should either get
smarter or live within a less demanding cohort. And just what electronics
hobbies could those be? CB radio certainly comes to mind; a venue of zero
examinations and largely technically incompetent appliance operators. And
below that, cable TV, where the two big challenges are finding the power
button and a channel.

Your functional competence in communicating within Usenet is also deficient,
as you sent a redundant copy of your post to my personal address. Please try
to learn the difference between replying to a post in a newsgroup and
replying to the poster's address (especially when the poster affords you the
courtesy of a non-spoofed address). I find it amusing that you deem I should
get TWO copies of YOUR post, while you publicly declare that my posts are
unfit for your attention. Further, your declared existence in this group,
that you "read this newsgroup only in hopes of learning something every now
and then", is selfish and parasitic. Usenet is a participatory forum, and
you should try to find satisfaction in contributing as well as in taking.

Finally, I don't know if you intended pithy sarcasm, or simply displayed
further evidence of senility, by signing your missive with a "73". After
insulting my intentions, you close with the generally accepted icon for
"best wishes" or "cheers". Thank you for the complete reversal of your
entire thought process in the space of one line! I must assume that the
closing salutation must have been appended AFTER you took your daily meds.


--
Ed
WB6WSN
El Cajon, CA USA

"garigue" wrote in message
...


You can either accept the responsibility to control EMI in your hobby, or
go
back to 11 meters and cable TV.


Ed
WB6WSN


Ya know Ed I have never met you so I can't say for sure if you are a
pontificating idiot or not. I have never been on CB and the cable TV is
mostly the History Channel and such. A "teaching post" , albeit boring,
would be acceptable but the above zinger is not funny nor complimentary of
the guys on this thread. My installing of the halogens were from the
point
of my back 9 of life eyesight when connecting things in back of the
equipment not to be on when I was working quasi land with 5 watts. The
condescending attitude displayed in your pontification is like many hams I
have run across in the last 40 years of this endeavor and causes our
service
to loose valuable young people. Unfortunately I am not young but on the
other hand I have been around enough to recognize those who would lord
over
others from a "technical" standpoint. Yep there Ed I have used bypass
caps,
torroids, made brute force filters etc. to make my operating a bit more
enjoyable ...now if they only had a filter for your type of letter and
attitude we all would be ahead.

73 Tom Popovic KI3R


Tom

Although I can see your point about Ed's sharp tongue, he is likely a
techincally bright guy who is as intolerant of old guys like you and me who
make more mistakes than we'd like.
I'm 74 and used to be a fairly active antenna making ham in the 1960s.
But, I dont know crap compared to the guys who currently study about
antennas and electronics. I'd bet that you and I will have more comfort if
we dont get overly excited when we get yelled at for writing things that
dont quite fit with the current level of 'technical knowledge'.
There is so much really good technical guidance available within this news
group that it doesnt make any sense for us old guys to get upset when we get
insulted. I've found it alot easir to read around most criticism. That way
I can continue to enjoy this nifty way of keeping aware of antenna
development (without having to go back to books and class rooms).
You are welcome to tell me to F888 off if this post offends. I only offer
it as a way of showing that even though I see your point, I also consider it
so unimportant that you and I get yelled at occasionally.

Jerry

"Jerry Martes" wrote in message
news:Xe44e.23340$k66.15439@trnddc03...
"garigue" wrote in message
...


You can either accept the responsibility to control EMI in your hobby,
or
go
back to 11 meters and cable TV.


Ed
WB6WSN


Ya know Ed I have never met you so I can't say for sure if you are a
pontificating idiot or not. 73 Tom Popovic KI3R


Tom

Although I can see your point about Ed's sharp tongue, he is likely a
techincally bright guy who is as intolerant of old guys like you and me
who make more mistakes than we'd like.
Jerry


Things are getting too fuzzy here, so I'll try to sharpen the focus a bit.

First, you self-declared "old guys" have only about a decade and a half
seniority on me. I have always tried to respect ability, regardless of the
age of its holder. OTOH, old jerks are still jerks.

Second, I have met myself, and I can assure you that I can be considered an
idiot (having already progressed through the grades of imbecile and moron) .
But I try mightily to never pontificate.

Third. silver-tongued, omniscient orators sometimes close with a zinger
that's a bit too barbed, so I again apologize if my karma ran over your
dogma.

--
Ed
WB6WSN
El Cajon, CA USA

Tom

Although I can see your point about Ed's sharp tongue, he is likely a
techincally bright guy who is as intolerant of old guys like you and me
who
make more mistakes than we'd like.
I'm 74 and used to be a fairly active antenna making ham in the 1960s.
But, I dont know crap compared to the guys who currently study about
antennas and electronics. I'd bet that you and I will have more comfort
if
we dont get overly excited when we get yelled at for writing things that
dont quite fit with the current level of 'technical knowledge'.
There is so much really good technical guidance available within this
news
group that it doesnt make any sense for us old guys to get upset when we
get
insulted. I've found it alot easir to read around most criticism. That
way
I can continue to enjoy this nifty way of keeping aware of antenna
development (without having to go back to books and class rooms).
You are welcome to tell me to F888 off if this post offends. I only
offer
it as a way of showing that even though I see your point, I also consider
it
so unimportant that you and I get yelled at occasionally.

Jerry

Hi Jerry ....there would be absolutely no reason to tell you do anything
concerning the above post. I look upon the newgroups in a positive way to
share information. I have drawn ire from some in the past but maybe those
individuals will think the next time they hit the send key. There are
plenty of people who follow these groups who don't send messages and I feel
a good part of them are young people who are interested. I remember those
times as a teenager just starting out and being treated quite poorly by some
OTers. We really need to remember what we were like starting out and the
errors we made. As for getting yelled at ......you must be married .....
as my dad once told me ...the best 2 words are yes dear .... and boy he was
right.

73 Jerry ....... Tom KI3R