A loading coil does not make an antenna longer. It simply cancels the
capacitive reactance of a short radiator.

A 5/8 wave is using the associated coil to match the impedance. Ergo if it
is 5/8 it can't be shorter than a 1/4 wave.

Cecil's 10 element mobile 10 meter beam aside, the answer is still NO to
your original question.

"Ken Bessler" wrote in message
news:u1g7e.14448$up2.9536@okepread01...
"Cecil Moore" wrote in message
...
Fred W4JLE wrote:
I am sure you did Cecil, however I understood the question to be a
shorter
single element mobile antenna.

Well, that's why I asked for a definition of "better".
And he didn't say a "single element" was better so
a 10-element beam might be the way to go. :-)
--
73, Cecil http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp


Sorry - let me elaborate *why* I posted the question.

I wanted to know if it was possible for any single mobile
antenna less than a 1/4 wave could outperform a 10m 1/4
wave whip. Like for example a loaded 5/8 wave whip.

As I understand it no whip less in size than a 1/4 wave
can be more efficiant than it's larger cousin due to resisitave
losses in the loading coil.

Right or wrong? Long answer is OK. :-)

--
73's es gd dx de Ken KGØWX
Grid EM17ip, Flying Pigs #1055,
Digital On Six #350,
List Owner, Yahoo! E-groups:
VX-2R & FT-857

Fred W4JLE wrote:

A loading coil does not make an antenna longer. It simply cancels the
capacitive reactance of a short radiator.

The other way to cancel the capacitive reactance of course, is to make
the antenna longer.

ac6xg

Cecil Moore wrote:
Ken Bessler wrote:
Better: higher eirp for a 100w transceiver.

So how does 3.8 dBi gain from a five foot tall
antenna sound?

Like a 1/4 wvae vertical for 6M.

--
73, Cecil http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp

w3rv

"Cecil Moore" wrote in message
...
Ken Bessler wrote:
Is it possible to make a mobile 10m antenna that is
physically shorter than a 1/4 wave whip yet will
preform better than a 1/4 wave whip?

Define "better".
--
73, Cecil http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp

If the quarter-wave whip is made of ss, then you can make a better antenna
by plating it with copper - or - gold - etc - or replace it with a better
conductor. Then use a better transmission line. Then park the vehicle on top
of a very high mountain to work dx.
so, .... conditionally - yes.

Would you care to postulate the dB increase by plating with copper or gold?

"Hal Rosser" wrote in message
. ..

"Cecil Moore" wrote in message
...
Ken Bessler wrote:
Is it possible to make a mobile 10m antenna that is
physically shorter than a 1/4 wave whip yet will
preform better than a 1/4 wave whip?

Define "better".
--
73, Cecil http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp

If the quarter-wave whip is made of ss, then you can make a better antenna
by plating it with copper - or - gold - etc - or replace it with a better
conductor. Then use a better transmission line. Then park the vehicle on
top
of a very high mountain to work dx.
so, .... conditionally - yes.

On Wed, 13 Apr 2005 20:10:29 -0400, "Fred W4JLE"
wrote:

Would you care to postulate the dB increase by plating with copper or gold?

Hi Fred,

Could be up to 3 or more dB over an unspecified quarterwave efficiency
(±3dB, offer void where permitted by law).

73's
Richard Clark, KB7QHC

Depends on the customer. If the customer is really building a CB antenna,
then I could claim 12 db gain.
But to you folks, I wouild say the gain is marginal at best. But it would be
a "better" antenna.
Wouldn't you say a gold-plated antenna is better than a stainless steel
antenna? After all, it cost a bunch more and the mfgr claims 12 db gain.
--- the part about parking on top of a mountain is the best part of the
recipe. - and gives the most gain. (height-gain).


"Fred W4JLE" wrote in message
...
Would you care to postulate the dB increase by plating with copper or
gold?

"Hal Rosser" wrote in message
. ..

"Cecil Moore" wrote in message
...
Ken Bessler wrote:
Is it possible to make a mobile 10m antenna that is
physically shorter than a 1/4 wave whip yet will
preform better than a 1/4 wave whip?

Define "better".
--
73, Cecil http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp

If the quarter-wave whip is made of ss, then you can make a better
antenna
by plating it with copper - or - gold - etc - or replace it with a
better
conductor. Then use a better transmission line. Then park the vehicle on
top
of a very high mountain to work dx.
so, .... conditionally - yes.

It was in comparison to a stainless steel whip. let me be more specific. The
coating of either copper or gold (your choice) of up to 50 mils over the
stainless. Any other plating to allow the proper plating of the copper or
gold shall be limited to 5 mils and materials normally used to facilate
plating over SS.

Compare in dB SS whip before plating to SS whip after plating. I am sure I
have left out something else that may generate yet another waltz on the head
of the pin.

"Richard Clark" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 13 Apr 2005 20:10:29 -0400, "Fred W4JLE"
wrote:

Would you care to postulate the dB increase by plating with copper or
gold?

Hi Fred,

Could be up to 3 or more dB over an unspecified quarterwave efficiency
(±3dB, offer void where permitted by law).

73's
Richard Clark, KB7QHC

On Wed, 13 Apr 2005 22:30:17 -0400, "Fred W4JLE"
wrote:

I am sure I
have left out something else that may generate yet another waltz on the head
of the pin.

Hi Fred,

How thick was the original radiator? Stainless steel's fine for
larger diameters, the pits for small diameters.

73's
Richard Clark, KB7QHC

Richard Clark wrote:
How thick was the original radiator? Stainless steel's fine for
larger diameters, the pits for small diameters.

Speaking of skin effect, consider a threaded rod on
edge with all those hills and valleys.

/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\
|\ \ \ \ \ \ \ \ \ \ \ |
/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\

Does skin effect force the RF to flow up and down
the hills and valleys thus increasing the VF of
the threaded rod?
--
73, Cecil http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp


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