Reg, I was not impuning your program. I used it as a guide and found that it
followed my actual findings once I scaled the results for my particular
location.

My point was that at the heights most of us "mere mortal" hams are able to
achieve, one can cover 75 meters with a 12" diameter cage.


"Reg Edwards" wrote in message
...
Reg has a program that shows bandwidth vs. Cage diameter. My
practical
results achieved greater band width than predicted by the program.
Then
again It was at 30 feet.

=================================

My program, DIPCAGE2, is concerned with the bandwidth of a cage dipole
in isolation.

But the type and length, in wavelengths, of the feedline has a
considerable effect on the bandwidth of the radiating SYSTEM as a
whole. And a tuner, if used, also plays a part.

It is not surprising that practical measurements made from the shack
randomly indicate somewhat different bandwidths. But neverthless the
bandwidth of the antenna itself, as predicted by the program, plays
the principal part.

In general, the bandwidth of an antenna does not increase in
proportion to its efective diameter so much as is often fondly
expected. But it is not a critical performance characteristic.
----
Reg, G4FGQ

Maybe I misunderstood the point below, but it looked to me, from examining
the empirical data presented in the article, that a spread of 6 feet did a
decent job of broadening the swr curve of a 75/80 m dipole.

If 6' worked so well in the article, why are you saying "dual wires spread
less than 15'" as something that "doesn't work" ? Are you discussing
something else?

....hasan, N0AN

"Fred W4JLE" wrote in message
...

Some things that do not work, "the bazooka", dual wires spread less than
15
feet, and any of the antennas that are terminated folded dipoles.

Just information gained from experiments to achieve a broad 75 meter antenna
in my particular antenna environment.

"hasan schiers" wrote in message
...
Maybe I misunderstood the point below, but it looked to me, from examining
the empirical data presented in the article, that a spread of 6 feet did a
decent job of broadening the swr curve of a 75/80 m dipole.

If 6' worked so well in the article, why are you saying "dual wires spread
less than 15'" as something that "doesn't work" ? Are you discussing
something else?

...hasan, N0AN

"Fred W4JLE" wrote in message
...

Some things that do not work, "the bazooka", dual wires spread less than
15
feet, and any of the antennas that are terminated folded dipoles.

Dear W4JLE:

Please expand on the paragraph shown below. Sewer pipe is most often,
hereabout, made of cast iron. What is your pipe made of? How thick is it?
(I assume that the 3/8" mentioned is the height of pieces of pipe that were
used as wire spacers.) How many short sections of pipe did you use?

Thanks, Mac N8TT

--
J. Mc Laughlin; Michigan U.S.A.
Home:
"Fred W4JLE" wrote in message
...
snip

I have used a number of methods over the years to cover 75/80 with a
single
antenna. A 12" diameter cage works well at low heights. I used sections of
12 " sewer pipe cut 3/8" thick and 6 wires coming to a cone at the end.

snip

They make a 12" PVC pipe. I got some scrap sections from the guy who put in
sewer lines in my town.

The pipe is cut in such a way that you have rings 12" in diameter and 3/8"
wide. Holes are drilled every 60 degrees. I use 5 rings on each end (10
total). The wires are tied together at the center and end insulators.

I normally tie a wire between a tree and the hitch on my pickup with the 5
rings pre strung. Then add the other 5 wires. Once the whole mess is put
together slide the rings an equal distance apart. The ones at the ends
should be 18 inches from each insulator. Use 6 inch pieces of wire to anchor
the rings. Wrap a couple of inches around the wire, over the top of the ring
and continue wrapping on the wire. 3 per ring works well. Being cheap and as
this antenna uses a LOT of wire I make mine out of electric fence wire (1/4
mile for $7.00). Get some help holding the ends as you raise it. If not you
will end up with the worlds biggest "slinky".

"J. Mc Laughlin" wrote in message
...
Dear W4JLE:

Please expand on the paragraph shown below. Sewer pipe is most often,
hereabout, made of cast iron. What is your pipe made of? How thick is
it?
(I assume that the 3/8" mentioned is the height of pieces of pipe that
were
used as wire spacers.) How many short sections of pipe did you use?

Thanks, Mac N8TT

--
J. Mc Laughlin; Michigan U.S.A.
Home:
"Fred W4JLE" wrote in message
...
snip

I have used a number of methods over the years to cover 75/80 with a
single
antenna. A 12" diameter cage works well at low heights. I used sections
of
12 " sewer pipe cut 3/8" thick and 6 wires coming to a cone at the end.

snip

Dear Fred (W4JLE):
Oh my. I never thought of PVC 12" sewer pipe.

Thank you for that, and the other, details. I will be on the lookout
for such pipe and measure its thickness. Apparently, the pipe is strong
enough that the end supports do not buckle. I would have expected to need
supplemental braces on the end supports.

Presumably, the electric fence wire is solid aluminum. If so, you must
use a pair of substantial clamps at the feed point and some sort of Al to Cu
transition.

Thanks. 73 Mac N8TT

--
J. Mc Laughlin; Michigan U.S.A.
Home:
"Fred W4JLE" wrote in message
...
They make a 12" PVC pipe. I got some scrap sections from the guy who put
in
sewer lines in my town.

The pipe is cut in such a way that you have rings 12" in diameter and 3/8"
wide. Holes are drilled every 60 degrees. I use 5 rings on each end (10
total). The wires are tied together at the center and end insulators.

I normally tie a wire between a tree and the hitch on my pickup with the 5
rings pre strung. Then add the other 5 wires. Once the whole mess is put
together slide the rings an equal distance apart. The ones at the ends
should be 18 inches from each insulator. Use 6 inch pieces of wire to
anchor
the rings. Wrap a couple of inches around the wire, over the top of the
ring
and continue wrapping on the wire. 3 per ring works well. Being cheap and
as
this antenna uses a LOT of wire I make mine out of electric fence wire
(1/4
mile for $7.00). Get some help holding the ends as you raise it. If not
you
will end up with the worlds biggest "slinky".

"J. Mc Laughlin" wrote in message
...
Dear W4JLE:

Please expand on the paragraph shown below. Sewer pipe is most
often,
hereabout, made of cast iron. What is your pipe made of? How thick is
it?
(I assume that the 3/8" mentioned is the height of pieces of pipe that
were
used as wire spacers.) How many short sections of pipe did you use?

Thanks, Mac N8TT

--
J. Mc Laughlin; Michigan U.S.A.
Home:
"Fred W4JLE" wrote in message
...
snip

I have used a number of methods over the years to cover 75/80 with a
single
antenna. A 12" diameter cage works well at low heights. I used
sections
of
12 " sewer pipe cut 3/8" thick and 6 wires coming to a cone at the
end.

snip

I never used clamps, simply put the 6 wires through the eye of an insulator
and wrap it back on it's self.

The pvc is plenty strong enough, I think the last ones I made the pipe was
almost 1/2" thick outside to inside.

I have used a number of different type wires, one made from enameled copper
wire #18 was neat. You almost could not see the wires at certain times of
day and had the illusion of the rings floating in the air. At another time
of day the sun hit it just right and appeared to be a solid copper pipe
hanging in the air. I have used both Au and galvanized wire and for all
practical purposes they operated the same. The fence wire is #16.

For the connection I normally use brass contacts salvaged from an old
electrical panel. They seem to work well and last a long time.Let me define
my long time, I rarely have an antenna up more than 2 years as I am always
trying something new.


"J. Mc Laughlin" wrote in message
...
Dear Fred (W4JLE):
Oh my. I never thought of PVC 12" sewer pipe.

Thank you for that, and the other, details. I will be on the lookout
for such pipe and measure its thickness. Apparently, the pipe is strong
enough that the end supports do not buckle. I would have expected to need
supplemental braces on the end supports.

Presumably, the electric fence wire is solid aluminum. If so, you
must
use a pair of substantial clamps at the feed point and some sort of Al to
Cu
transition.

Thanks. 73 Mac N8TT

--
J. Mc Laughlin; Michigan U.S.A.
Home:
"Fred W4JLE" wrote in message
...
They make a 12" PVC pipe. I got some scrap sections from the guy who put
in
sewer lines in my town.

The pipe is cut in such a way that you have rings 12" in diameter and
3/8"
wide. Holes are drilled every 60 degrees. I use 5 rings on each end (10
total). The wires are tied together at the center and end insulators.

I normally tie a wire between a tree and the hitch on my pickup with the
5
rings pre strung. Then add the other 5 wires. Once the whole mess is put
together slide the rings an equal distance apart. The ones at the ends
should be 18 inches from each insulator. Use 6 inch pieces of wire to
anchor
the rings. Wrap a couple of inches around the wire, over the top of the
ring
and continue wrapping on the wire. 3 per ring works well. Being cheap
and
as
this antenna uses a LOT of wire I make mine out of electric fence wire
(1/4
mile for $7.00). Get some help holding the ends as you raise it. If not
you
will end up with the worlds biggest "slinky".

"J. Mc Laughlin" wrote in message
...
Dear W4JLE:

Please expand on the paragraph shown below. Sewer pipe is most
often,
hereabout, made of cast iron. What is your pipe made of? How thick
is
it?
(I assume that the 3/8" mentioned is the height of pieces of pipe that
were
used as wire spacers.) How many short sections of pipe did you use?

Thanks, Mac N8TT

--
J. Mc Laughlin; Michigan U.S.A.
Home:
"Fred W4JLE" wrote in message
...
snip

I have used a number of methods over the years to cover 75/80 with a
single
antenna. A 12" diameter cage works well at low heights. I used
sections
of
12 " sewer pipe cut 3/8" thick and 6 wires coming to a cone at the
end.

snip

the search for the broad band antenna continues.
It appears putting more wire in the air is the preferred solution,
but more wire means more weight
more weight make the antenna droop - and can break a tree limb.
a dipole fed with ladder line is lightweight.
it doesn't droop
it doesn't break limbs
it works
I like Cecil's antenna at his web site. A few 4pdt ice-cube relays @ 7.50
each and the sockets @ 2.50 each can switch different lengths of ladder line
in and out. Put the line and relays in the attic.
I think you could also make use of an old TV tuner switch (The old clunker
channel changers)
I considered using a PLC to switch the relays.

"Fred W4JLE" wrote in message
...
Aside from a few errors in the article, (ie: 4*2.8 does not equal 10.2) If
your going to use open wire feed, make the antenna 135 feet. See Cecils
site, Cover all bands and save a bunch of wire.

I have used a number of methods over the years to cover 75/80 with a
single
antenna. A 12" diameter cage works well at low heights. I used sections of
12 " sewer pipe cut 3/8" thick and 6 wires coming to a cone at the end.

Reg has a program that shows bandwidth vs. Cage diameter. My practical
results achieved greater band width than predicted by the program. Then
again It was at 30 feet.

Some things that do not work, "the bazooka", dual wires spread less than
15
feet, and any of the antennas that are terminated folded dipoles.

"Ed" wrote in message
. 93.175...


The May 2005 issue of QST had an interesting antenna article on page
33... basically discussing broadband dipoles. I am particularly
interested
in the biconical (fan) dipole discussed. It is basically two dipoles
common at the feed point, with a slight divergence out to the ends. I
believe they discussed a spread of 6 feet at the ends for an 80 meter
version.

This antenna may be just what I was looking for to put up on 75M.
Do you antenna experts here on this list have any opionions on this? I
prefer "resonant" antennas fed with coax as opposed to open wire
feedline
with tuners, but I would like to be able to operate over the entire 75M
band with my IC746Pro.. Comments?


Ed

Hal Rosser wrote:
I like Cecil's antenna at his web site. A few 4pdt ice-cube relays @ 7.50
each and the sockets @ 2.50 each can switch different lengths of ladder line
in and out.

I got my relays for $2.50 at surplus stores in Silicon Valley.
I finally settled on knife switches mounted on Plexiglas in my
hamshack window.
--
73, Cecil http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp


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I got a bit slicker with mine, I have an updown binary counter with an
updown switch. It feeds the relay driver circuit and a 2 digit decimal
display . One of these days I plan to have the box driven automatically from
the rig.

"Cecil Moore" wrote in message
...
Hal Rosser wrote:
I like Cecil's antenna at his web site. A few 4pdt ice-cube relays @
7.50
each and the sockets @ 2.50 each can switch different lengths of ladder
line
in and out.

I got my relays for $2.50 at surplus stores in Silicon Valley.
I finally settled on knife switches mounted on Plexiglas in my
hamshack window.
--
73, Cecil http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp


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