In article ,
Doug McLaren wrote:

| How do you define QUICKLY?

Sorry, I meant to send this as a private email. It's also US
specific, if that's not already painfully obvious.

To make this antenna relevant, well, antennas have been well
understood by people (not me!) for many many years. I've got an ARRL
Antenna handbook from the 1950s, and it's not really that different
from the one I got from the 1990s.

The writing is different, the pictures of cars with antennas mounted
are very different (and entertaining), but the general concepts
haven't changed much at all.

In the old book, VHF and UHF are sort of an afterthought, which I
guess makes sense. But the actual antenna concepts are pretty much
the same, even though the books are like 40 years apart.

(And to make it copyright related, well, my 1950's ARRL antenna book
could have entered the public domain. It depends on if it's copyright
was renewed or not.)

--
Doug McLaren, , AD5RH
Life is fraught with opportunities to keep your mouth shut.

Doug:

I NEVER want to copy whole books, I can't see a reason for copying whole
chapters, seldom would there be a need for whole pages--usually short of a
page would suffice--this would fall under "fair use", if proper credit is
give author/material... not only that, but take where I gave a URL, I could
just have easily digested the info, transformed it into my own words and
dumped it here--a little more work--but would only take me minutes
longer--literally!!! When give the choice--I gave the man credit for where
I had found it...

But, make no mistake, I am not here for "hero worship." However, if you
don't think I have gotten to here without having stood upon the shoulders of
others--you are mistaken--and I DO NOT make that mistake--all my very little
and humble learnings have come from other men or women (hell, maybe aliens!
grin)--I would suppose, so has yours--unless you are psychic and getting
it "directly from God."

I could be mistaken, but I think I remember reading articles by Roy Lewellan
when I was much younger--my memory is already not as good as once--but I
would swear I seen papers/articles, etc from him when I was a teenager--that
knowledge has severed me well--as well as I can remember...

I am not here to claim other mens knowledge as "original ideas" of my
own--rather my whole knowledge is composed of bits and pieces of
others--isn't yours?

At this point, it would be impossible to tell what bit or what piece has
come from who--or when... but I will do the best I can here... someway we
will find a way for this to work...

Warmest regards,
John

"Doug McLaren" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Doug McLaren wrote:

| How do you define QUICKLY?

Sorry, I meant to send this as a private email. It's also US
specific, if that's not already painfully obvious.

To make this antenna relevant, well, antennas have been well
understood by people (not me!) for many many years. I've got an ARRL
Antenna handbook from the 1950s, and it's not really that different
from the one I got from the 1990s.

The writing is different, the pictures of cars with antennas mounted
are very different (and entertaining), but the general concepts
haven't changed much at all.

In the old book, VHF and UHF are sort of an afterthought, which I
guess makes sense. But the actual antenna concepts are pretty much
the same, even though the books are like 40 years apart.

(And to make it copyright related, well, my 1950's ARRL antenna book
could have entered the public domain. It depends on if it's copyright
was renewed or not.)

--
Doug McLaren, , AD5RH
Life is fraught with opportunities to keep your mouth shut.

In article ,
John Smith wrote:

| I NEVER want to copy whole books, I can't see a reason for copying
| whole chapters, seldom would there be a need for whole
| pages--usually short of a page would suffice--this would fall under
| "fair use", if proper credit is give author/material

You stated that most technical docs fall out of copyright quickly. I
asked how you defined quickly, since technical docs don't fall out of
copyright now any faster than anything else. (And they didn't before
either, though it's possible that copyrights were not renewed more
often for technical docs.)

As for facts and ideas, neither are copyrightable. Books are. If you
learn something from a book, the knowledge is yours, not covered by
the copyright by the book. (It may be covered by a patent, or a small
phrase you learn may be trademarked, but that's different.)

| But, make no mistake, I am not here for "hero worship." However, if you
| don't think I have gotten to here without having stood upon the shoulders of
| others--you are mistaken--and I DO NOT make that mistake

What are you talking about? Obviously, all of civilization is based
on what our ancestors learned. If we were each starting out fresh
every generation, we'd be just another animal, and even they pass
knowledge down from generation to generation (like how to hunt, etc.)

But none of this has anything to do with copyrights. I never said you
had or had not violated any copyrights. Fair use is another issue
that I did not touch.

| I am not here to claim other mens knowledge as "original ideas" of my
| own--rather my whole knowledge is composed of bits and pieces of
| others--isn't yours?

The majority of my knowledge is, perhaps. Not all of it. I suspect
you've learned a few things on your own too.

For example, to make this antenna related, I've learned, on my own,
that if your SWR meter is pegging, and your transmitter is only
putting out one watt of power (when it's capable of 100 watts) that
one thing to check is that all your connectors are tight. I'm sure
that somebody figured this out before me, but I did learn it on my
own, as I was trying to figure out what the hell was wrong with my
radio (I'm also lucky I didn't let out any magic smoke, but that's
probably because somebody learned before me that if they don't make
the transmitter back off when the SWR goes high, the magic smoke
escapes and that's best avoided.)

| At this point, it would be impossible to tell what bit or what piece
| has come from who--or when... but I will do the best I can
| here... someway we will find a way for this to work...

I wasn't talking about bits of knowledge. I was talking about books,
or parts of a book, or diagrams, schematics, etc. These are all
covered by copyrights, though many have expired, and smaller parts of
a larger work may be usable under fair use.

As a society, there is some benefit to having things protected by
copyright (and patents, but they're different), as it can help provide
an incentive for people to create things. But I suspect that our
current society has gone too far, with Disney buying extensions from
Congress every few decades, just in time to keep Mickey Mouse from
becoming public domain. I do believe that we've already found a way
to make it work, but the beaurocrats are finding ways to keep it from
working for everybody, and instead keep it working for them.

--
Doug McLaren,
internet, eh? I hear they have that on computers now.

Well, enough of copyright... do as you see fit with your understanding... I
certainly will with mine...

Warmest regards,
John

"Doug McLaren" wrote in message
...
In article ,
John Smith wrote:

| I NEVER want to copy whole books, I can't see a reason for copying
| whole chapters, seldom would there be a need for whole
| pages--usually short of a page would suffice--this would fall under
| "fair use", if proper credit is give author/material

You stated that most technical docs fall out of copyright quickly. I
asked how you defined quickly, since technical docs don't fall out of
copyright now any faster than anything else. (And they didn't before
either, though it's possible that copyrights were not renewed more
often for technical docs.)

As for facts and ideas, neither are copyrightable. Books are. If you
learn something from a book, the knowledge is yours, not covered by
the copyright by the book. (It may be covered by a patent, or a small
phrase you learn may be trademarked, but that's different.)

| But, make no mistake, I am not here for "hero worship." However, if you
| don't think I have gotten to here without having stood upon the
shoulders of
| others--you are mistaken--and I DO NOT make that mistake

What are you talking about? Obviously, all of civilization is based
on what our ancestors learned. If we were each starting out fresh
every generation, we'd be just another animal, and even they pass
knowledge down from generation to generation (like how to hunt, etc.)

But none of this has anything to do with copyrights. I never said you
had or had not violated any copyrights. Fair use is another issue
that I did not touch.

| I am not here to claim other mens knowledge as "original ideas" of my
| own--rather my whole knowledge is composed of bits and pieces of
| others--isn't yours?

The majority of my knowledge is, perhaps. Not all of it. I suspect
you've learned a few things on your own too.

For example, to make this antenna related, I've learned, on my own,
that if your SWR meter is pegging, and your transmitter is only
putting out one watt of power (when it's capable of 100 watts) that
one thing to check is that all your connectors are tight. I'm sure
that somebody figured this out before me, but I did learn it on my
own, as I was trying to figure out what the hell was wrong with my
radio (I'm also lucky I didn't let out any magic smoke, but that's
probably because somebody learned before me that if they don't make
the transmitter back off when the SWR goes high, the magic smoke
escapes and that's best avoided.)

| At this point, it would be impossible to tell what bit or what piece
| has come from who--or when... but I will do the best I can
| here... someway we will find a way for this to work...

I wasn't talking about bits of knowledge. I was talking about books,
or parts of a book, or diagrams, schematics, etc. These are all
covered by copyrights, though many have expired, and smaller parts of
a larger work may be usable under fair use.

As a society, there is some benefit to having things protected by
copyright (and patents, but they're different), as it can help provide
an incentive for people to create things. But I suspect that our
current society has gone too far, with Disney buying extensions from
Congress every few decades, just in time to keep Mickey Mouse from
becoming public domain. I do believe that we've already found a way
to make it work, but the beaurocrats are finding ways to keep it from
working for everybody, and instead keep it working for them.

--
Doug McLaren,
internet, eh? I hear they have that on computers now.

I would say over 50% of all technical books since 1950 are expired
copyright...

But, the thread which dealt with copyright, here, contains enough info to be
able to research any book you might choose... can be done in a matter of
minutes...

Easier to research any given book than argue it... and that was the point
of that thread...

I havent looked at John Kraus's(sp?) works.... the university may have
picked up his copyrights...

Warmest regards,
John
"Doug McLaren" wrote in message
...
In article ,
John Smith wrote:

| I NEVER want to copy whole books, I can't see a reason for copying
| whole chapters, seldom would there be a need for whole
| pages--usually short of a page would suffice--this would fall under
| "fair use", if proper credit is give author/material

You stated that most technical docs fall out of copyright quickly. I
asked how you defined quickly, since technical docs don't fall out of
copyright now any faster than anything else. (And they didn't before
either, though it's possible that copyrights were not renewed more
often for technical docs.)

As for facts and ideas, neither are copyrightable. Books are. If you
learn something from a book, the knowledge is yours, not covered by
the copyright by the book. (It may be covered by a patent, or a small
phrase you learn may be trademarked, but that's different.)

| But, make no mistake, I am not here for "hero worship." However, if you
| don't think I have gotten to here without having stood upon the
shoulders of
| others--you are mistaken--and I DO NOT make that mistake

What are you talking about? Obviously, all of civilization is based
on what our ancestors learned. If we were each starting out fresh
every generation, we'd be just another animal, and even they pass
knowledge down from generation to generation (like how to hunt, etc.)

But none of this has anything to do with copyrights. I never said you
had or had not violated any copyrights. Fair use is another issue
that I did not touch.

| I am not here to claim other mens knowledge as "original ideas" of my
| own--rather my whole knowledge is composed of bits and pieces of
| others--isn't yours?

The majority of my knowledge is, perhaps. Not all of it. I suspect
you've learned a few things on your own too.

For example, to make this antenna related, I've learned, on my own,
that if your SWR meter is pegging, and your transmitter is only
putting out one watt of power (when it's capable of 100 watts) that
one thing to check is that all your connectors are tight. I'm sure
that somebody figured this out before me, but I did learn it on my
own, as I was trying to figure out what the hell was wrong with my
radio (I'm also lucky I didn't let out any magic smoke, but that's
probably because somebody learned before me that if they don't make
the transmitter back off when the SWR goes high, the magic smoke
escapes and that's best avoided.)

| At this point, it would be impossible to tell what bit or what piece
| has come from who--or when... but I will do the best I can
| here... someway we will find a way for this to work...

I wasn't talking about bits of knowledge. I was talking about books,
or parts of a book, or diagrams, schematics, etc. These are all
covered by copyrights, though many have expired, and smaller parts of
a larger work may be usable under fair use.

As a society, there is some benefit to having things protected by
copyright (and patents, but they're different), as it can help provide
an incentive for people to create things. But I suspect that our
current society has gone too far, with Disney buying extensions from
Congress every few decades, just in time to keep Mickey Mouse from
becoming public domain. I do believe that we've already found a way
to make it work, but the beaurocrats are finding ways to keep it from
working for everybody, and instead keep it working for them.

--
Doug McLaren,
internet, eh? I hear they have that on computers now.