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IC-706 on motorcycle; HF - CB interaction (damage to CB)?
I have an IC-706 mounted on my Honda Gold Wing motorcycle. The motorcycle has a dealer-installed CB radio with the CB antenna mounted in back on the left side of the trunk. I have a 7-foot loaded vertical for 40 meters mounted to the rear crash bar, only about a foot to a foot and a half from the CB antenna. My question is, if I transmit on 40 meters SSB at full power (nominally 100 watts, actually more like about 70 watts or so), am I likely to damage the front end of the CB radio? Will it matter if the CB radio is turned on or off? I could crank the power on the IC-706 back to as little as 10 watts but it's going to be hard enough to raise any QSOs with the full 100 watts of power. On the other hand, the motorcycle CB is big bucks to replace and I'd be just as happy not to damage it... Thanks... |
C. J. Clegg wrote:
I have an IC-706 mounted on my Honda Gold Wing motorcycle. The motorcycle has a dealer-installed CB radio with the CB antenna mounted in back on the left side of the trunk. I have a 7-foot loaded vertical for 40 meters mounted to the rear crash bar, only about a foot to a foot and a half from the CB antenna. My question is, if I transmit on 40 meters SSB at full power (nominally 100 watts, actually more like about 70 watts or so), am I likely to damage the front end of the CB radio? Will it matter if the CB radio is turned on or off? I could crank the power on the IC-706 back to as little as 10 watts but it's going to be hard enough to raise any QSOs with the full 100 watts of power. On the other hand, the motorcycle CB is big bucks to replace and I'd be just as happy not to damage it... Thanks... Hi C.J. With the antennas that close, you could cause damage to the cb rig. You should have the cb turned off when transmitting with the ham rig, you will overload the front end and get garbage out of the speaker. Some cb rigs ground the antenna with the rig off, and if yours does then you are OK as long as the cb is off. If your rig does not do this then you need to add a switch or relay to ground the antenna when the cb is off, or you are transmitting with the ham rig. As you stated, you will need all the power you can get to have QSOs, but at what point does this damage the cb, too many variables? Gary N4AST |
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open the tx on the ic 706 have a all in one radio problem solve
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On Tue, 31 May 2005 17:52:10 -0400, C. J. Clegg
wrote: I have an IC-706 mounted on my Honda Gold Wing motorcycle. The motorcycle has a dealer-installed CB radio with the CB antenna mounted in back on the left side of the trunk. I have a 7-foot loaded vertical for 40 meters mounted to the rear crash bar, only about a foot to a foot and a half from the CB antenna. My question is, if I transmit on 40 meters SSB at full power (nominally 100 watts, actually more like about 70 watts or so), am I likely to damage the front end of the CB radio? Will it matter if the CB radio is turned on or off? I could crank the power on the IC-706 back to as little as 10 watts but it's going to be hard enough to raise any QSOs with the full 100 watts of power. On the other hand, the motorcycle CB is big bucks to replace and I'd be just as happy not to damage it... Thanks... If the CB is off, you are likely not to have problems. If it is on, it is possible. I don't know how likely, tho, as the quality of the front end may make all the difference. -- 73 for now Buck N4PGW |
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lol
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"Buck" wrote in message
... On Wed, 1 Jun 2005 00:00:58 -0500, wrote: open the tx on the ic 706 have a all in one radio problem solve Sure, and risk a $10,000 fine and loss of license to protect a $150 CB. He'd be breaking the letter of the law but -- assuming he dialed the 706 back to 5W -- not really the intent, IMO. I really can't imagine the FCC pursuing the issue. True story: I used to live next door to a guy with a linear amp on his CB, I called up the FCC field office, and they told me there wasn't anything they could do. Said they had official monitoring stations that, if they picked up the guy's transmission, they could go after him, but they just didn't have the resources to pursue complaints from people calling in violators. And, oh, did I want their free brochure on mitigating interference to my own electronics? :-( I bet a Goldwing CB is also closer to $1k than $150! ---Joel Kolstad |
In article ,
Joel Kolstad wrote: He'd be breaking the letter of the law but -- assuming he dialed the 706 back to 5W -- not really the intent, IMO. Depends on how you read the FCC's intent. If the intent is to limit power output on the band, yes. If the intent is to require that all CB transmitters be specifically certificated for this band, no. The FCC's letters and findings (e.g. when they bust a dealer for selling "10-meter amateur radio" systems easily converted to 11-meter operation) seem to me to be asserting the latter pretty consistently. I really can't imagine the FCC pursuing the issue. True story: I used to live next door to a guy with a linear amp on his CB, I called up the FCC field office, and they told me there wasn't anything they could do. Said they had official monitoring stations that, if they picked up the guy's transmission, they could go after him, but they just didn't have the resources to pursue complaints from people calling in violators. They do seem to be fairly limited in their ability (or motivation) to pursue such violations. There are quite a few places on the Net which advertise "10-meter" radios and also offer "11-meter conversion" services for 'em. I think I can count, on the fingers of one hand, the number of dealerships which have been cited for such things in the past couple of years, and I'd probably have one or two fingers left over. And, oh, did I want their free brochure on mitigating interference to my own electronics? I seem to recall that somebody (FCC, Congress, ??) pushed through a change to the laws/regulations, and explicitly gave local law-enforcement organizations the legal power to prosecute cases of interference caused by illegally-amplified CB transmitters. Most police departments are likely either to not know this or not be terribly interested in pursuing such cases, but in case of severe unrelenting interference from a known point of origin it might be worth trying to get them to act on it (on "creating a public nuisance" or similar grounds). As to the OP's query - in his situation I'd be tempted to try to wire up a set of RF and DC relays, which would prevent both rigs from being powered up at the same time, and would short the antenna connection on the unpowered rig. -- Dave Platt AE6EO Hosting the Jade Warrior home page: http://www.radagast.org/jade-warrior I do _not_ wish to receive unsolicited commercial email, and I will boycott any company which has the gall to send me such ads! |
The cost of a CB intigrated system radio on a Honda Goldwing is around $900
US and it's made by Panisonic. As for the FCC nabbing a motorcyclist for operating his amateur radio on CB, well even if they could track him it's not worth the effort. AKA how many truckers are using a lot more than 5 watts and you don't see many of them being targetted by the FCC. I know because I used my 706 on 11 meters when my Cobra went up in smoke on me on a trip to Arizona. And would you believe the state tropper in the Port of entry scale was more interested in my scanner than anything else. And then only till he found out I was a licenced amateur, then he wasn't interested at all. What he told me was that state law had no aurthority to do anything when it came to radios if I held an amateur radio licence. He said the last thing they want is the Feds breathing down on him for causing trouble to a licenced amateur radio operator, regardless if he's from Canada, USA or Mexico it's the same thing. But now watch yourself in the state of Washington, the FCC is hot and heavy in this state, I think it has a lot to do with the military bases on the Pacific Northwest. I had my 706 on my old GL1200 and it worked like a charm, mind you I didn't run full power, a motorcyle battery is no where near as hefty as a car or truck battery and my head is a little too close to the antenna to suite me. You do know wher the term "hothead" came from. 73.....ve7agw |
On Wed, 01 Jun 2005 01:14:55 -0400, Buck wrote:
On Tue, 31 May 2005 17:52:10 -0400, C. J. Clegg wrote: I have an IC-706 mounted on my Honda Gold Wing motorcycle. The motorcycle has a dealer-installed CB radio with the CB antenna mounted in back on the left side of the trunk. I have a 7-foot loaded vertical for 40 meters mounted to the rear crash bar, only about a foot to a foot and a half from the CB antenna. My question is, if I transmit on 40 meters SSB at full power (nominally 100 watts, actually more like about 70 watts or so), am I likely to damage the front end of the CB radio? Will it matter if the CB radio is turned on or off? I could crank the power on the IC-706 back to as little as 10 watts but it's going to be hard enough to raise any QSOs with the full 100 watts of power. On the other hand, the motorcycle CB is big bucks to replace and I'd be just as happy not to damage it... Thanks... If the CB is off, you are likely not to have problems. If it is on, it is possible. I don't know how likely, tho, as the quality of the front end may make all the difference. Personally, at 70 watts PEP on a motocycle, I'd be more concerned with RF damage to the operator than I would be damage to any other electronics... Raymond Sirois KU2S SysOp: The Lost Chord BBS 607-733-5745 telnet://thelostchord.dns2go.com:6000 |
On Wed, 1 Jun 2005 14:33:26 -0700, "Joel Kolstad"
wrote: He'd be breaking the letter of the law but -- assuming he dialed the 706 back to 5W -- not really the intent, IMO. I really can't imagine the FCC pursuing the issue. True story: I used to live next door to a guy with a linear amp on his CB, I called up the FCC field office, and they told me there wasn't anything they could do. Said they had official monitoring stations that, if they picked up the guy's transmission, they could go after him, but they just didn't have the resources to pursue complaints from people calling in violators. And, oh, did I want their free brochure on mitigating interference to my own electronics? :-( I bet a Goldwing CB is also closer to $1k than $150! ---Joel Kolstad YOu have me on the Goldwing CB price, I wouldn't have a clue about it, but as for the law, I don't recall where it is, but there are FCC enforcement records that you can read on the internet at their site, or someone has them posted. I used to read them regularly. They are filled with enforcement letters to CBers who are using modified rigs that are non-type accepted or non-certified. They are often fined $8000 or more and, if a ham, they are ordered to get rid of the rig, modify it so it can't operate out of band and then cover it in some form of epoxy so it can't be re-modified again. Loss of license is a risk. It may be that only one in a million gets the FCC ticket, but then the lotto has much lower odds (1:10s of millions) yet someone hits the jackpot almost every day. The FCC is getting enough complaints to start going after truck-drivers so all it takes is for that motorcycle to be in the enforcement area when the FCC is monitoring. Each radio has it's own finger-print that the FCC can read. Many times, they can tell the make and model by the signature before ever seeing the rig. I would think that the most popular HF mobile rig ever is recognized by the FCC. As for the local enforcement officers having permission to enforce the illegal CBs, I believe I remember that that bill was overturned. I hope so and am glad if it was. I don't know many police that know the difference between the CB and Ham radio. My goodness, they can't even tell the difference between a ham rig and a cell phone even when you hand them a copy of the law that tells them to leave radio operators alone. -- 73 for now Buck N4PGW |
On Thu, 02 Jun 2005 00:54:30 GMT, "TJ" wrote:
The cost of a CB intigrated system radio on a Honda Goldwing is around $900 US and it's made by Panisonic. As for the FCC nabbing a motorcyclist for operating his amateur radio on CB, well even if they could track him it's not worth the effort. AKA how many truckers are using a lot more than 5 watts and you don't see many of them being targetted by the FCC. I know because I used my 706 on 11 meters when my Cobra went up in smoke on me on a trip to Arizona. And would you believe the state tropper in the Port of entry scale was more interested in my scanner than anything else. And then only till he found out I was a licenced amateur, then he wasn't interested at all. What he told me was that state law had no aurthority to do anything when it came to radios if I held an amateur radio licence. He said the last thing they want is the Feds breathing down on him for causing trouble to a licenced amateur radio operator, regardless if he's from Canada, USA or Mexico it's the same thing. But now watch yourself in the state of Washington, the FCC is hot and heavy in this state, I think it has a lot to do with the military bases on the Pacific Northwest. I had my 706 on my old GL1200 and it worked like a charm, mind you I didn't run full power, a motorcyle battery is no where near as hefty as a car or truck battery and my head is a little too close to the antenna to suite me. Is it legal? No. Will he get caught? buy a lottery ticket, it may stand a similar chance of hitting. I can't say what might happen that he could get caught. People die of strange accidents every day and crooks get caught even when they have the flawless plan. There is a risk that he could get caught and the penalty would be in the thousands of dollars. (or was the OP in canada?) Regardless, I wouldn't recommend it. Raymond may have the better point... What is his RF exposure? I have to admit that this is one of the more benign suggestions for using a rig out of band. I really suspect CB band is the safest place to do this, but I really cringe when I hear someone say they want to modify a rig so they can call the sheriff on his own frequency "in case of life/death emergency." I read a lot of reports on those too... You do know wher the term "hothead" came from. no, actually, i never looked that one up. 73.....ve7agw -- 73 for now Buck N4PGW |
On Thu, 02 Jun 2005 03:43:07 GMT, KU2S wrote:
Personally, at 70 watts PEP on a motocycle, I'd be more concerned with RF damage to the operator than I would be damage to any other electronics... Raymond Sirois KU2S Wouldn't that be closer to 100 w PEP? Icom 706. -- 73 for now Buck N4PGW |
On Thu, 02 Jun 2005 02:11:44 -0400, Buck wrote:
Each radio has it's own finger-print that the FCC can read. Many times, they can tell the make and model by the signature before ever seeing the rig. I would think that the most popular HF mobile rig ever is recognized by the FCC. Rig fingerprint? How does that work? bob k5qwg |
Bob Miller wrote:
Rig fingerprint? How does that work? The signal emitted by each transmitter possesses unique identifiable measurable characteristics. -- 73, Cecil http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp ----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==---- http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 120,000+ Newsgroups ----= East and West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption =---- |
In article ,
Buck wrote: As for the local enforcement officers having permission to enforce the illegal CBs, I believe I remember that that bill was overturned. I hope so and am glad if it was. I don't know many police that know the difference between the CB and Ham radio. My goodness, they can't even tell the difference between a ham rig and a cell phone even when you hand them a copy of the law that tells them to leave radio operators alone. I checked, and it appears that the bill passed back in 2000. It amended the Communications Act of 1934, adding subsection (f) to USC 47 chapter 5 subchapter III Part I Section 302a [whew!]. The new subsection allows a state or local government to pass a law which forbids the use of any CB radio not authorized by the FCC, and/or the unauthorized use of CB equipment on frequencies between 24 and 35 MHz. In effect, this subsection overrides the general rule that only the FCC has jurisdiction over radio operation - it grants local governments the right to claim a limited jurisdiction in this case. So, the local police don't end up enforcing an FCC regulation directly... but they can enforce a *local* law which has the same effect, if the local government chooses to pass one. If the local government doesn't pass a local law to this effect, the police have no jurisdiction. There's a whole bunch of verbiage about appealing local decisions to the FCC, about the FCC's responsibility for providing technical guidance to local governments about doing this right, etc. For the gory details, see http://uscode.house.gov/download/pls/47C5.txt about 40% of the way down through the text. It's possible that this subsection has been challenged in court, or even overturned, but I'm not aware of any case in which this is happened. I have no idea how many state and local governments (if any) have passed laws, or prosecuted illegal CB operation, under the authority granted by this subsection. -- Dave Platt AE6EO Hosting the Jade Warrior home page: http://www.radagast.org/jade-warrior I do _not_ wish to receive unsolicited commercial email, and I will boycott any company which has the gall to send me such ads! |
On Thu, 02 Jun 2005 02:21:35 -0400, Buck wrote:
On Thu, 02 Jun 2005 03:43:07 GMT, KU2S wrote: Personally, at 70 watts PEP on a motocycle, I'd be more concerned with RF damage to the operator than I would be damage to any other electronics... Raymond Sirois KU2S Wouldn't that be closer to 100 w PEP? Icom 706. The poster said 70, so I went with his numbers. I use an IC-720a, and certainly don't go two-wheeled mobile with it. Hell, MY Goldwing doesn't even have a fairing! Raymond Sirois KU2S SysOp: The Lost Chord BBS 607-733-5745 telnet://thelostchord.dns2go.com:6000 |
On Thu, 02 Jun 2005 12:33:44 GMT, Bob Miller
wrote: On Thu, 02 Jun 2005 02:11:44 -0400, Buck wrote: Each radio has it's own finger-print that the FCC can read. Many times, they can tell the make and model by the signature before ever seeing the rig. I would think that the most popular HF mobile rig ever is recognized by the FCC. Rig fingerprint? How does that work? bob k5qwg I don't know, the FCC mentions them in letters to the owners of the rigs they are requiring inspection on. -- 73 for now Buck N4PGW |
On Fri, 03 Jun 2005 10:01:39 -0400, Buck wrote:
On Thu, 02 Jun 2005 12:33:44 GMT, Bob Miller wrote: On Thu, 02 Jun 2005 02:11:44 -0400, Buck wrote: Each radio has it's own finger-print that the FCC can read. Many times, they can tell the make and model by the signature before ever seeing the rig. I would think that the most popular HF mobile rig ever is recognized by the FCC. Rig fingerprint? How does that work? bob k5qwg I don't know, the FCC mentions them in letters to the owners of the rigs they are requiring inspection on. It's called "signature analysis". Every emitter, whether the human voice, a transmiiter or a piece of vibrating machinery puts out its vibrations in a unique pattern that can be determined by careful analysis of the signal. There are mathmatical analysis tools that can break down the patterns into frequency bands and time signatures that all together, show that your Icom IC-706 MarkIIG is uniquely different from my friend's. The math isn't particularly difficult, there are specialty chip sets that will do it. The trick is doing it fast and accurately enough. The "waterfall" display in WINPSK is doing the math, but only enough to show the signals and decode the PSK protocol. If it were accurate enough it would show the differences between all the transmitters. Russ - kf4wxd |
On Fri, 03 Jun 2005 10:01:39 -0400, Buck wrote:
On Thu, 02 Jun 2005 12:33:44 GMT, Bob Miller wrote: On Thu, 02 Jun 2005 02:11:44 -0400, Buck wrote: Each radio has it's own finger-print that the FCC can read. Many times, they can tell the make and model by the signature before ever seeing the rig. I would think that the most popular HF mobile rig ever is recognized by the FCC. Rig fingerprint? How does that work? bob k5qwg I don't know, the FCC mentions them in letters to the owners of the rigs they are requiring inspection on. It's called "signature analysis". Every emitter, whether the human voice, a transmiiter or a piece of vibrating machinery puts out its vibrations in a unique pattern that can be determined by careful analysis of the signal. There are mathmatical analysis tools that can break down the patterns into frequency bands and time signatures that all together, show that your Icom IC-706 MarkIIG is uniquely different from my friend's. The math isn't particularly difficult, there are specialty chip sets that will do it. The trick is doing it fast and accurately enough. The "waterfall" display in WINPSK is doing the math, but only enough to show the signals and decode the PSK protocol. If it were accurate enough it would show the differences between all the transmitters. Russ - kf4wxd |
On Wed, 01 Jun 2005 00:47:19 GMT, Bob Miller
wrote: By the way, curious, but what does Honda charge for a factory installed cb setup? I don't really remember. We had the CB installed when we got the bike, back in 1991. It was a few hundred bucks at least, as I recall. |
Thanks to all for your helpful information on this topic. And thanks also for the notes on proximity of the operator to the antenna. This is also of a concern to me, but it's a different question so I didn't mention it in my original post. The fact is, I'd be doing about 98 percent listening and 2 percent talking anyway, and so I'm currently somewhat more concerned about damage to equipment than damage to my brain which is already fairly damaged anyway according to my XYL... ;-) As for opening up the 706 to transmit out-of-band, this rig has that mod (for MARS). If I didn't already have the integrated CB in the Gold Wing I might consider using the 706 on CB and take my chances on getting caught, but since the legal radio is already there, may as well use it. |
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