John Smith wrote:

Actually, standing on the earth we are already moving at over 1,000 mph.
If you point a flashlight in the direction of rotation--it has the
potential of +1,000 mph than when you turn around and point it west.

Nope, that's not true. You will measure no difference. An observer
fixed compared to your position would measure a Doppler frequency
shift but no difference in velocity.

Also, the universe is expanding, and that is pushing us on at a good
clip. Funny you don't see this being taken into account anywhere except
on space launches...

But it is taken into account. Most astronomers don't believe the
red shift is pure Doppler effect.
--
73, Cecil http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp

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.... I forgot to mention, the flashlight was not aimed at an observer
here on earth--I was using to view the space shuttle and mars... I think
they may have noticed something--but "they" ain't talkin'... grin

Warmest regards,
John

"Cecil Moore" wrote in message
...
John Smith wrote:

Actually, standing on the earth we are already moving at over 1,000
mph. If you point a flashlight in the direction of rotation--it has
the potential of +1,000 mph than when you turn around and point it
west.

Nope, that's not true. You will measure no difference. An observer
fixed compared to your position would measure a Doppler frequency
shift but no difference in velocity.

Also, the universe is expanding, and that is pushing us on at a good
clip. Funny you don't see this being taken into account anywhere
except on space launches...

But it is taken into account. Most astronomers don't believe the
red shift is pure Doppler effect.
--
73, Cecil http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp

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Dave said:
"... all the errors in your logic when you start with impossible
conditions."

I certainly hope you don't mean "going the speed of light" as an "error"
of mine, we have already move "stuff" faster than that...

This article:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/2049048.stm

claims the "teleportation" of a laser beam... now that IS occurring at
greater than the speed of light--else the beam would be gone before you
could get it moved!!!

.... some of us need to remain current (I include myself in that
statement--I slip behind quickly)...

The far reaching repercussions of all this will not be realized for
decades...

John
"Dave" wrote in message
...
you might want to try this on sci.physics.relativity, they like
pointing out all the errors in your logic when you start with
impossible conditions.

"John Smith" wrote in message
...
... by the way, since I am traveling at the speed of light--a
"reflected" current on the coax is impossible... perfect balun
really... grin

John

"John Smith" wrote in message
...
Ok, no takers so far, and since I am having trouble sleeping...

I remount the xmitter in the space craft...
Now the rear of the xmitter is facing the rear of the
spacecraft--and the antenna just happens to be back there at the
rear of the spacecraft too... we continue at the speed of light...

But now, the signal is shot through the coax at 2x times the speed
of light (due to its speed through the coax, combined with the fact
that the coax is traveling at the speed of light and the signal
travels in an opposite direction through that coax)... the signal
now strikes that antenna at 2x the speed of light and is able to
leave the front of the antenna at 1X the speed of light! ...or,
does it?

But, suddenly I notice a problem at the front of the spacecraft and,
it is dark up there... no problem, I grab my trusty flashlight,
point it at the front of the spacecraft and turn it on... but, big
problem, the front of the spacecraft remains dark... I move the
flashlight and notice a bunch of light photons hanging in the air
right where I had been holding the flashlight... unable to overtake
the speed of light I am traveling at!!! Indeed, it is getting
pretty darn bight inside this spacecraft now, as no forward light is
able to travel forward and be reflected or absorbed...

My co-pilot suddenly says, "That is impossible! The flashlight is
traveling at the speed of light, any light it gives off has to be
traveling at 2X the speed of light and can go forward--those photons
cannot possibly be there hanging in midair!"

To which, I respond, "Nothing can go faster than the speed of light,
fool!" grin

(I just threw in the "fool" for effect... the co-pilot knew I was
kidding)

... maybe I can sleep now...

Warmest regards,
John

"John Smith" wrote in message
...
I pictured this, I am in a spacecraft doing the speed of light, I
key the xmitter and begin a long winded rant, the antenna is
monopole.

Now the signal leaving the rear of the antenna appears to be
leaving it at 2X the speed of light (allowing for the VF of
space-ether), however, the signal off the very front, at least the
width of the antenna conductor itself, cannot leave (since I am
traveling at the speed of light the signal appears to just stay on
the surface of the conductor)--what will happen?

Warmest regards,
John
--
Watching the cutting edge of yesterday replay--in virtual reality,
right before my eyes--in real time!
Thirty year old technology--wasn't it amazing?

.... the next breakthrough I expect from progressive antenna
manufacturers is a "teleportation antenna", where the signal is received
on the other side of the universe at the same instant it is transmitter
here... sure hope someone is listening out there--and has the antennas'
counterpart...

John

"John Smith" wrote in message
...
Dave said:
"... all the errors in your logic when you start with impossible
conditions."

I certainly hope you don't mean "going the speed of light" as an
"error" of mine, we have already move "stuff" faster than that...

This article:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/2049048.stm

claims the "teleportation" of a laser beam... now that IS occurring at
greater than the speed of light--else the beam would be gone before
you could get it moved!!!

... some of us need to remain current (I include myself in that
statement--I slip behind quickly)...

The far reaching repercussions of all this will not be realized for
decades...

John
"Dave" wrote in message
...
you might want to try this on sci.physics.relativity, they like
pointing out all the errors in your logic when you start with
impossible conditions.

"John Smith" wrote in message
...
... by the way, since I am traveling at the speed of light--a
"reflected" current on the coax is impossible... perfect balun
really... grin

John

"John Smith" wrote in message
...
Ok, no takers so far, and since I am having trouble sleeping...

I remount the xmitter in the space craft...
Now the rear of the xmitter is facing the rear of the
spacecraft--and the antenna just happens to be back there at the
rear of the spacecraft too... we continue at the speed of light...

But now, the signal is shot through the coax at 2x times the speed
of light (due to its speed through the coax, combined with the fact
that the coax is traveling at the speed of light and the signal
travels in an opposite direction through that coax)... the signal
now strikes that antenna at 2x the speed of light and is able to
leave the front of the antenna at 1X the speed of light! ...or,
does it?

But, suddenly I notice a problem at the front of the spacecraft
and, it is dark up there... no problem, I grab my trusty
flashlight, point it at the front of the spacecraft and turn it
on... but, big problem, the front of the spacecraft remains dark...
I move the flashlight and notice a bunch of light photons hanging
in the air right where I had been holding the flashlight... unable
to overtake the speed of light I am traveling at!!! Indeed, it is
getting pretty darn bight inside this spacecraft now, as no forward
light is able to travel forward and be reflected or absorbed...

My co-pilot suddenly says, "That is impossible! The flashlight is
traveling at the speed of light, any light it gives off has to be
traveling at 2X the speed of light and can go forward--those
photons cannot possibly be there hanging in midair!"

To which, I respond, "Nothing can go faster than the speed of
light, fool!" grin

(I just threw in the "fool" for effect... the co-pilot knew I was
kidding)

... maybe I can sleep now...

Warmest regards,
John

"John Smith" wrote in message
...
I pictured this, I am in a spacecraft doing the speed of light, I
key the xmitter and begin a long winded rant, the antenna is
monopole.

Now the signal leaving the rear of the antenna appears to be
leaving it at 2X the speed of light (allowing for the VF of
space-ether), however, the signal off the very front, at least the
width of the antenna conductor itself, cannot leave (since I am
traveling at the speed of light the signal appears to just stay on
the surface of the conductor)--what will happen?

Warmest regards,
John
--
Watching the cutting edge of yesterday replay--in virtual reality,
right before my eyes--in real time!
Thirty year old technology--wasn't it amazing?

Bill Turner wrote:

On Mon, 13 Jun 2005 10:48:46 -0500, Cecil Moore
wrote:


Most astronomers don't believe the
red shift is pure Doppler effect.

Correct. Much of it appears to be from the expansion of the universe.
The effects can be shown to be different.

_________________________________________________

I'm not an astronomer but I've wondered about that too. Perhaps the red
shift from distant objects is just simply caused by the photons
gradually losing energy after a few billion years. A lower energy photon
means a longer wavelength, i.e. a red shift.

That was actually posited in the 1920's, and tested -- the answer was
"nope".

The lost energy could explain the "background radiation" of the cosmos.

I think God likes playing with our minds. I would if I were him. :-)



--
-------------------------------------------
Tim Wescott
Wescott Design Services
http://www.wescottdesign.com

"John Smith" wrote in message
...
... the next breakthrough I expect from progressive antenna manufacturers
is a "teleportation antenna", where the signal is received on the other
side of the universe at the same instant it is transmitter here... sure
hope someone is listening out there--and has the antennas' counterpart...


its already been patented.

Bill Turner wrote:
Cecil Moore wrote:
Most astronomers don't believe the red shift is pure Doppler effect.

I'm not an astronomer but I've wondered about that too. Perhaps the red
shift from distant objects is just simply caused by the photons
gradually losing energy after a few billion years. A lower energy photon
means a longer wavelength, i.e. a red shift.

Consider that if the velocity of space is slowing down, the
volume of space would necessarily be expanding according to
the theory of relativity and photons would indeed lose energy.
The saddle model of the universe seems most likely to me because
of that slowing down process that will eventually lead to collapse
and another big bang.

I think God likes playing with our minds. I would if I were him. :-)

Shame on you (and Him).
--
73, Cecil http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp

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I think this guy:
http://www.synchronizeduniverse.com/
and his collegues are about to bring us to a new renaissance of
technology...

He is one of the few brave scientists with the cajones to step forward
and say there is truth in the enigmas, aberrations and anomalies which
have been witnessed for decades now--and ignored...

Undoubtably, if you think you knew the answers--you are going to have to
rethink that attitude...

Much of this will cause changes in our "antenna religion" we now
practice it today--perhaps even forcing us to construct a "scientific
antenna theory" to hold the new redefined theory which is rising on the
horizon.

If the ancient Gods of "antenna religion" were upset before--their state
is soon to rise to a much greater level of anxiety... soon I expect
"antenna zealots" to be running wild in the streets attempting to slay
the blasphemous "antenna new agers."

Pays to keep an open mind...

Warmest regards,
John

If the tranmission line between the transmitter and the antenna has a
velocity factor greater than unity, then you'll be able to hear yourself
before you say it. That could be useful for politicians.

But all hollow waveguides have a velocity factor greater than unity. Why
haven't the politicians taken advantage of it?

Roy Lewallen, W7EL

Hal Rosser wrote:
If the tranmission line between the transmitter and the antenna has a
velocity factor greater than unity, then you'll be able to hear yourself
before you say it. That could be useful for politicians.