Power radiated from feedlines
 

I am truly disappointed with the long-running discourse on balanced
and unbalanced feedlines and the power radiated therefrom. It's been
going on for years.

Nobody, especially poor novices, has ever learned anything from it.

99% of it is bafflegab.

Few of us understand what on Earth is being waffled about. And those
who do, prefer not to waste their time by joining in.

The reason I'm making this seemingly outrageous statement is that
NOBODY HAS EVER QUANTIFIED, not even once, what they are waffling
about. This demonstrates a great ignorance of the subject.

(Remember what Lord Kelvin said about the ability to measure and
quantify what it is you are gabbing about and how that ability is
directly related to what you really know about it.)

Perhaps somebody might be prepared to state the power actually
radiated from feedlines in watts. At least it may create the
impression you know what you are talking about.

It might possibly be at such a low level that, in the great majority
of cases, it's not worth all the megabytes of bandwidth which are
wasted on it.

As an unbiased World Citizen, I now find myself half-way down a bottle
of Merlo, 2000, a produce of France. But I have in reserve some decent
Californian stuff.

May I say how saddened I am to learn about the terrible disastrous
storm which has befallen some of the Southern states.
----
Reg, G4FGQ

Reg Edwards wrote:
. . .
The reason I'm making this seemingly outrageous statement is that
NOBODY HAS EVER QUANTIFIED, not even once, what they are waffling
about. This demonstrates a great ignorance of the subject.

The last time you made a similar statement (not long ago) I referred you
to my article on baluns, then and now available at my web site, which
includes measurements of imbalance when various balun configurations are
used. Have you looked at it yet?

Perhaps somebody might be prepared to state the power actually
radiated from feedlines in watts. At least it may create the
impression you know what you are talking about.
. . .

Let's begin a little more simply. Can you tell us how many watts each
portion of an inverted-L antenna radiates? How about each element of a
Yagi? Or even, say, the outer 1/3 of a dipole?

If you can't, may we assume that you don't know what you're talking
about when you discuss antennas?

Roy Lewallen, W7EL

Roy, do everybody a favour, by stating, numerically, how much power is
radiated from feedlines. Then somebody might have some confidence in
what you are bafflegabbing about.

Are you still using your S-meter as the North American Standard?

Found a corkscrew and I've just opened the Californian. I'd like to
try some of your Oregon stuff - do you have any. ;o)
----
Reg.

On Tue, 30 Aug 2005 22:35:43 +0000 (UTC), "Reg Edwards"
wrote:

[Tired repetitive bafflegab snipped]

As an unbiased World Citizen, I now find myself half-way down a bottle
of Merlo, 2000, a produce of France. But I have in reserve some decent
Californian stuff.

Since you're drinking a French wine the least you can do it keep the
"t" on the end of the French "Merlot."

When you break out the reserve Californian vintage, then you can drop
the "t" and just call it "delicious"


May I say how saddened I am to learn about the terrible disastrous
storm which has befallen some of the Southern states.

Thank you for your kind thoughts.

Do you suppose Britain or any of the other developed nations will be
sending any relief aid?

On Wed, 31 Aug 2005 00:08:30 +0000 (UTC), "Reg Edwards"
wrote:

Roy, do everybody a favour, by stating, numerically, how much power is
radiated from feedlines. Then somebody might have some confidence in
what you are bafflegabbing about.

12.75 Watts +/- 6 dB.

Reg Edwards wrote:
Roy, do everybody a favour, by stating, numerically, how much power is
radiated from feedlines. Then somebody might have some confidence in
what you are bafflegabbing about.

Of the many things I've said you disagree with, which one are you now
referring to as "bafflegabbing"?

And, who are "everybody" and "somebody"? You?

Roy Lewallen, W7EL
Reg's Old Wife & Nit-Picker
and, new title, Bafflegabber

All,

Below is a link to a site that claims to model coax radiation from a dipole.

http://www.smeter.net/feeding/feedpowr.php

I have compared several of the models from this site with other models and they
are close.

I have tried several parameters and have gotten results from a very low level
with a close match to over 90% of power radiated in the feedline when the dipole
resonance is far from the transmit frequency.

We may use this model for a couple of things. It is available and it predicts
radiation. That gives the opportunity to create a test. I for one are willing to
experiment.

Dan


Reg Edwards wrote:
I am truly disappointed with the long-running discourse on balanced
and unbalanced feedlines and the power radiated therefrom. It's been
going on for years.

Nobody, especially poor novices, has ever learned anything from it.

99% of it is bafflegab.

Few of us understand what on Earth is being waffled about. And those
who do, prefer not to waste their time by joining in.

The reason I'm making this seemingly outrageous statement is that
NOBODY HAS EVER QUANTIFIED, not even once, what they are waffling
about. This demonstrates a great ignorance of the subject.

(Remember what Lord Kelvin said about the ability to measure and
quantify what it is you are gabbing about and how that ability is
directly related to what you really know about it.)

Perhaps somebody might be prepared to state the power actually
radiated from feedlines in watts. At least it may create the
impression you know what you are talking about.

It might possibly be at such a low level that, in the great majority
of cases, it's not worth all the megabytes of bandwidth which are
wasted on it.

As an unbiased World Citizen, I now find myself half-way down a bottle
of Merlo, 2000, a produce of France. But I have in reserve some decent
Californian stuff.

May I say how saddened I am to learn about the terrible disastrous
storm which has befallen some of the Southern states.
----
Reg, G4FGQ

Wes Stewart wrote:

SNIPPED



Do you suppose Britain or any of the other developed nations will be
sending any relief aid?

Only AFTER the middle east countries set the example by their donations!!

dansawyeror wrote:
Below is a link to a site that claims to model coax radiation from a
dipole.

http://www.smeter.net/feeding/feedpowr.php

Please note that the third wire to ground creates the unbalance
that causes feedline radiation. You seem to be confusing cause
and effect. The cause of the feedline radiation is the existence
of that third wire, not SWR. All it proves is that feedline
radiation is caused by that third wire path which unbalances
the source currents.
--
73, Cecil http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp

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If it is true it proves that a driving a "bad" load can cause the coax feedline
to radiate a significant portion of the feed energy. At this point I am not sure
what word to use other then 'bad', but I due intend to perform experiments to
measure and verify what is happening and the model.

Dan

Cecil Moore wrote:
dansawyeror wrote:

Below is a link to a site that claims to model coax radiation from a
dipole.

http://www.smeter.net/feeding/feedpowr.php


Please note that the third wire to ground creates the unbalance
that causes feedline radiation. You seem to be confusing cause
and effect. The cause of the feedline radiation is the existence
of that third wire, not SWR. All it proves is that feedline
radiation is caused by that third wire path which unbalances
the source currents.