I am truly disappointed with the long-running discourse on balanced
and unbalanced feedlines and the power radiated therefrom. It's been
going on for years.

Nobody, especially poor novices, has ever learned anything from it.

99% of it is bafflegab.

Few of us understand what on Earth is being waffled about. And those
who do, prefer not to waste their time by joining in.

The reason I'm making this seemingly outrageous statement is that
NOBODY HAS EVER QUANTIFIED, not even once, what they are waffling
about. This demonstrates a great ignorance of the subject.

(Remember what Lord Kelvin said about the ability to measure and
quantify what it is you are gabbing about and how that ability is
directly related to what you really know about it.)

Perhaps somebody might be prepared to state the power actually
radiated from feedlines in watts. At least it may create the
impression you know what you are talking about.

It might possibly be at such a low level that, in the great majority
of cases, it's not worth all the megabytes of bandwidth which are
wasted on it.

As an unbiased World Citizen, I now find myself half-way down a bottle
of Merlo, 2000, a produce of France. But I have in reserve some decent
Californian stuff.

May I say how saddened I am to learn about the terrible disastrous
storm which has befallen some of the Southern states.
----
Reg, G4FGQ

Reg Edwards wrote:
. . .
The reason I'm making this seemingly outrageous statement is that
NOBODY HAS EVER QUANTIFIED, not even once, what they are waffling
about. This demonstrates a great ignorance of the subject.

The last time you made a similar statement (not long ago) I referred you
to my article on baluns, then and now available at my web site, which
includes measurements of imbalance when various balun configurations are
used. Have you looked at it yet?

Perhaps somebody might be prepared to state the power actually
radiated from feedlines in watts. At least it may create the
impression you know what you are talking about.
. . .

Let's begin a little more simply. Can you tell us how many watts each
portion of an inverted-L antenna radiates? How about each element of a
Yagi? Or even, say, the outer 1/3 of a dipole?

If you can't, may we assume that you don't know what you're talking
about when you discuss antennas?

Roy Lewallen, W7EL

Roy, do everybody a favour, by stating, numerically, how much power is
radiated from feedlines. Then somebody might have some confidence in
what you are bafflegabbing about.

Are you still using your S-meter as the North American Standard?

Found a corkscrew and I've just opened the Californian. I'd like to
try some of your Oregon stuff - do you have any. ;o)
----
Reg.

On Wed, 31 Aug 2005 00:08:30 +0000 (UTC), "Reg Edwards"
wrote:

Roy, do everybody a favour, by stating, numerically, how much power is
radiated from feedlines. Then somebody might have some confidence in
what you are bafflegabbing about.

12.75 Watts +/- 6 dB.

Reg Edwards wrote:
Roy, do everybody a favour, by stating, numerically, how much power is
radiated from feedlines. Then somebody might have some confidence in
what you are bafflegabbing about.

Of the many things I've said you disagree with, which one are you now
referring to as "bafflegabbing"?

And, who are "everybody" and "somebody"? You?

Roy Lewallen, W7EL
Reg's Old Wife & Nit-Picker
and, new title, Bafflegabber

Reg wrote, most lucidly,
"Found a corkscrew and I've just opened the Californian. I'd like to
try some of your Oregon stuff - do you have any. ;o) "

Why, yes, I do. Picked up a decent stash over the Indepencence Day
(that's US independence from England...) holiday a couple months ago,
at a nice wine and arts fair in Eugene.

Do _you_ have any? Are there any good English wines I should try when
I'm next in the neighborhood?? (Did Monty Python ever do a skit about
English wines to match the one they did about "Fine Australian Table
Wines"?)

Beats babbling on about old wives any day.

Cheers,
Tom

I'm not sure where in this convoluted thread to put this, and please
excuse me if the point has been made before but I just wanted to
reiterate...

When you put up an antenna system, pretty much _everything_ in the
vicinity of the wires you think of as the "antenna" is actually part of
the antenna system. Of special concern are all conductors, as well as
big pieces of dielectric material and lossy material. Certainly ground
has a profound effect on the radiation pattern, for example.

I'm really not so concerned with "how much power is radiated from my
feedline" as I am with "what is the radiation pattern (and in some
cases, efficiency) of my entire antenna system." To the end of
controlling the radiation pattern, I may wish to suppress antenna
currents on things like support wires and feedlines. Or, I may model
the system and find that antenna currents on the feedline are really
not a problem. In the case where I do care, I can add "current baluns"
or "choke baluns" or other structures as needed, or change the
configuration to break up the unwanted currents. In some cases, a
balun can be as simple as a hunk of ferrite clamped over the feedline.
I've also used self-resonant coils of coaxial feedline to very
effectively suppress current at a particular frequency. Breaking up
support wires with insulators can be very useful.

If you think that antenna current on the feedline is always a BAD
thing, consider the coaxial collinear, where the sections of feedline
that compose the antenna are INTENDED to radiate. On the other hand,
with that antenna, it's very important to suppress antenna current on
the line feeding the antenna part, because it doesn't take much antenna
current on that line to mess up the radiation pattern. But with an 80
meter coax-fed dipole, the pattern may actually be better for some
purposes if you don't suppress the antenna current on the feedline.

Again, the question I care about is, "What is the pattern for this
antenna," not "How much power does the feedline radiate." Is this
really so different from caring more about properly loading a
transmitter and getting power efficiently to the antenna, instead of
caring specifically about transmission line SWR? Focus on what gets
you the results you want, not on red herrings or old husband's tales.

Cheers,
Tom

K7ITM wrote:
Again, the question I care about is, "What is the pattern for this
antenna," not "How much power does the feedline radiate."

The present question has nothing to do with reality. The
present question is: what is wrong with the simulation software?
--
73, Cecil http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp


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On Tue, 30 Aug 2005 22:35:43 +0000 (UTC), "Reg Edwards"
wrote:

[Tired repetitive bafflegab snipped]

As an unbiased World Citizen, I now find myself half-way down a bottle
of Merlo, 2000, a produce of France. But I have in reserve some decent
Californian stuff.

Since you're drinking a French wine the least you can do it keep the
"t" on the end of the French "Merlot."

When you break out the reserve Californian vintage, then you can drop
the "t" and just call it "delicious"


May I say how saddened I am to learn about the terrible disastrous
storm which has befallen some of the Southern states.

Thank you for your kind thoughts.

Do you suppose Britain or any of the other developed nations will be
sending any relief aid?

Wes Stewart wrote:

SNIPPED



Do you suppose Britain or any of the other developed nations will be
sending any relief aid?

Only AFTER the middle east countries set the example by their donations!!