Money and space are actually limiting factors, but at least CC&R's
arent! My wife and I have been discussing this, and she really
doesn't like the idea of something 30 to 40 feet high on a small lot.

Her interest actually is gardening and we had been discussing
containing an area of decent topsoil within a square formed by railroad
ties. She has no objection to 20 to 25 foot high metal poles on the
corners of a square 20 to 25 foot on the side... which turns out to be
the core geometry of a 20 meter 4-square broadside phase array.

I would lay the poles first in concrete reinforced holes, connect the
feed network and radials on the dirt, and lay feed line underground
from the array to just near the trailer. Then I would lay the railroad
ties along the square, and then fill the square with topsoil.

Additional radials would need to be buried under a couple inches of red
clay fanning out from the square.

Variations:
1) could I create trap verticals from the poles for 20, 17, 15, and 10
meters, or do I need inscribed squares of seperate verticals because
seperate phased feeds might be needed for these other bands?
2) could I simply operate the square outside of 20 meters with a tuner
for local operation?

I think because space, money, and aesthetics are limiting factors, I
need to use precision to my advantage rather than size or height, and a
4 square may help there.

Comments?

The Eternal Squire

On 13 Sep 2005 20:59:43 -0700, wrote:

Money and space are actually limiting factors, but at least CC&R's
arent! My wife and I have been discussing this, and she really
doesn't like the idea of something 30 to 40 feet high on a small lot.

....excerpted...

I think because space, money, and aesthetics are limiting factors, I
need to use precision to my advantage rather than size or height, and a
4 square may help there.

Comments?

The Eternal Squire

Any reason you're not considering a 20 meter dipole, fed with
ladderline to a tuner, for 20 thru 10 meters? Put it 25 feet high, and
it's nearly or more than a half wave high on all bands.

bob
k5qwg

I'm deciding to go with a 20 meter 4-square because it can hopefully
provide me with similar directivity and DX takeoff angle as a 20 meter
beam but without the hassle or height of a tower. A dipole only has
directivity in 2 directions, a 4 square can give me directivity in 4
directions with basic phasing and 8 directions high tech using ARRL
suggestions. The EZNEC plot was pretty awesome.

The Eternal Squire

There's that "takeoff angle" again. Having a good "takeoff angle" is no
guarantee of good DX performance, and isn't a valid way to compare the
performance of two antennas.

You should model both the beam and the 4-square. Make sure you include a
realistic amount of ground loss resistance for whatever ground system
you think you can put down for the 4-square. Superimpose their elevation
patterns on the same plot, and see which really does best at low angles.
If you don't want to go to the trouble of modeling a beam, you can model
a simple dipole which has almost the same elevation pattern as a beam of
a few elements (in the forward direction) at the same height. Mentally
add the beam's gain relative to a dipole to the dipole's pattern. See if
the 4-square really is as good. It might change your mind.

Roy Lewallen, W7EL

wrote:
I'm deciding to go with a 20 meter 4-square because it can hopefully
provide me with similar directivity and DX takeoff angle as a 20 meter
beam but without the hassle or height of a tower. A dipole only has
directivity in 2 directions, a 4 square can give me directivity in 4
directions with basic phasing and 8 directions high tech using ARRL
suggestions. The EZNEC plot was pretty awesome.

The Eternal Squire

I think because space, money, and aesthetics are limiting factors, I
need to use precision to my advantage rather than size or height, and a
4 square may help there.

Sounds like too much work for my lazy a$$... :/ If you did that for
20m, it's kinda stuck , as far as spacing, etc, for good performance
on the other bands. Me, on 20m...I'd be using my mobile antenna.
And I'd probably be hanging pretty close with any "fancy" antenna.
When I'm mobile, 20m up, there is *no* disadvantage vs being at
the house on dipoles, etc.. At least as far as talking. On 20m, my
mobile is LOUD. I can work dx at the drop of a hat, and still do
well stateside. Even on 40m, there is little real disadvantage to
being mobile vs the dipole at home. Even in the daytime. Say if
I'm 20-30 over 9 at home, and drop to 10-15 over 9 in the mobile.
Doesn't
amount to a hill of beans... Same for 75m. But in the summer on 75m,
I do recommend a dipole/loop, as it will be worth quite a bit in
getting
over the noise running NVIS. I could talk with the mobile just fine,
but the dipole will make me "full quieting" to use an expression...
It's like throwing on an extra 500w when you are shooting upwards...
I wouldn't underestimate how well a *good* mobile antenna could
work on the higher bands. If it's mounted up high on a trailer, etc,
it should work well. It's like being on a huge car. The only problem
is
changing bands...You need to be able to reach it to change taps,
etc.. But that can be easy with a quick disconnect. That's what I
use on mine. I can't reach my coil when the antenna is on the trucks.
With the disconnect, a twist, and it's off. Also good for theft
prevention..
A good screwdriver could be an option too.
Not saying you can't try other antennas, but just saying , a good
mobile
will get the job done, all by itself. And it's pretty simple and easy
to
look at visually. It will often outplay ground mounted trap verticals
with mediocre radial systems on the higher bands.
MK

Smack her in the head and put up a tower, It has worked on all 7 of my
wives. :)

wrote in message
oups.com...
Money and space are actually limiting factors, but at least CC&R's
arent! My wife and I have been discussing this, and she really
doesn't like the idea of something 30 to 40 feet high on a small lot.

Her interest actually is gardening and we had been discussing
containing an area of decent topsoil within a square formed by railroad
ties. She has no objection to 20 to 25 foot high metal poles on the
corners of a square 20 to 25 foot on the side... which turns out to be
the core geometry of a 20 meter 4-square broadside phase array.

I would lay the poles first in concrete reinforced holes, connect the
feed network and radials on the dirt, and lay feed line underground
from the array to just near the trailer. Then I would lay the railroad
ties along the square, and then fill the square with topsoil.

Additional radials would need to be buried under a couple inches of red
clay fanning out from the square.

Variations:
1) could I create trap verticals from the poles for 20, 17, 15, and 10
meters, or do I need inscribed squares of seperate verticals because
seperate phased feeds might be needed for these other bands?
2) could I simply operate the square outside of 20 meters with a tuner
for local operation?

I think because space, money, and aesthetics are limiting factors, I
need to use precision to my advantage rather than size or height, and a
4 square may help there.

Comments?

The Eternal Squire