On Tue, 04 Oct 2005 14:33:52 GMT, Wayne P. Muckleroy wrote:

Like I said in another thread, "Emergency" implies IMMEDIATE (not planned)
danger to life, limb, or property. It seems that, in your proposal, you are
PLANNING to use these frequencies instead of more appropriate ones. I would
think that you need to create (and supply) a system that is isolated from
broadcast frequencies.

Wayne-
(KC8UIO)

It's not my call, Wayne, it's the client driving the systems.
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"Ari Silversteinn" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 04 Oct 2005 14:33:52 GMT, Wayne P. Muckleroy wrote:

Like I said in another thread, "Emergency" implies IMMEDIATE (not
planned)
danger to life, limb, or property. It seems that, in your proposal, you
are
PLANNING to use these frequencies instead of more appropriate ones. I
would
think that you need to create (and supply) a system that is isolated from
broadcast frequencies.

Wayne-
(KC8UIO)

It's not my call, Wayne, it's the client driving the systems.
--
But you've already changed it! Initially you said it was to be used at an
emergency site, and now you're saying it's to warn of a high-speed train
cometh. What the hell gives?

Ken

On Wed, 5 Oct 2005 08:12:56 +1300, Ken Taylor wrote:

It's not my call, Wayne, it's the client driving the systems.
--
But you've already changed it! Initially you said it was to be used at an
emergency site, and now you're saying it's to warn of a high-speed train
cometh. What the hell gives?

Ken

Both, there are three defined needs (today) 1) on locomotive, permanent at
grade crossing and mobile, take-to-site-and-leave.
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I think you will find that the FCC has the FINAL call on frequency band
usage. I can't see them authorizing such intrusive use of the normal
broadcast bands, especially after the broadcast industry gets wind of your
proposal.

From a technical standpoint, broadband transmission of a signal is not hard.
A simple VFO sweep of all the normal broadcast bands is all that is
required. Obviously, the appropriate modulation techniques would have to be
used for each band.

Another approach would be the use of a local (LOW power) sweeping UP/DOWN
converter. In this method, you could transmit a specific (authorized) signal
from the site. This signal would be received and detected by a local
receiver. This information would be used to modulate and rebroadcast the
signal within the vehicle. However, this would require onboard equipment.

I still think that your biggest hurdle will a legal one.

Wayne-
(KC8UIO)

"Ari Silversteinn" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 5 Oct 2005 08:12:56 +1300, Ken Taylor wrote:

It's not my call, Wayne, it's the client driving the systems.
--
But you've already changed it! Initially you said it was to be used at an
emergency site, and now you're saying it's to warn of a high-speed train
cometh. What the hell gives?

Ken

Both, there are three defined needs (today) 1) on locomotive, permanent at
grade crossing and mobile, take-to-site-and-leave.
--
Drop the alphabet for email

Wayne, KC8UIO wrote:
"I still think your biggest hurdle will be a legal one.

When life is at risk, there are no prohibitions on radio transmissions.

Disruption of all normal channels is unecessary and undesirable. Some
won`t be tuned-in and won`t immediately get the message. Nearly everyone
has eyes and ears. Sight and sound are useful to communicate.

Air horns as used on locomotives are designed to get attention. They are
heard at great distances.

Illuminated message boards are used for travel information along hiways.
They are also used for advertising on the Goodyear blimp and other
vehicles. They are towed behind airplanes.. They can be programmed by
recorded media, wire lines, and radio, even satellite.

Where I live, we have a traffic control central which monitors streets
and hiways using video cameras. It gives travel conditions and
approximate times required along various routes.. This is reported on
the illuminated displays and by radio and TV stations.

A display can`t do anything about hiways clogged when people are
stampeded by officials telling them to get out of town, other than warn
them away from the clogs.

Some people don`t have the means to get out of town. Others rush into
what becomes a huge parking jam. We don`t have room for all the vehicles
on the hiway at once. It`s a free country and we cant enforce private
access to roads and streets.

We have marked evacuation routes. Everyone can`t use them at the same
time. When they try, nobody moves anywhere fast. When officials order an
evacuation, they must also advise rail times and places of departures.
Bus schedules must be given too, to keep some of the automobile load off
overcrowded hiways. Airline information needs to be broadcast too. The
transit central`s website needs to be broadcast for internet access.

We had an "emergency broadcast system" ehich tested OK. It could be
activated for purposes besides an atom missile. We had air raid sirens
that could be used to alert people to tune-in for vital information. We
don`t need yet another untested system.

Best regards, Richard Harrison, KB5WZI

We had an "emergency broadcast system" ehich tested OK.
Best regards, Richard Harrison, KB5WZI

And another one on the way.

http://www.fcw.com/article88522-04-11-05-Print
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On Wed, 5 Oct 2005 09:27:17 -0500, Richard Harrison wrote:

Disruption of all normal channels is unecessary and undesirable. Some
won`t be tuned-in and won`t immediately get the message. Nearly everyone
has eyes and ears. Sight and sound are useful to communicate.

Air horns as used on locomotives are designed to get attention. They are
heard at great distances.

Ever hear of The Quiet Zone rulings?
--
Drop the alphabet for email

On Thu, 6 Oct 2005 18:38:04 -0400, Ari Silversteinn
wrote:

I don't know the details on how it works, but it seems to me that a
broadening of something akin to the On-Star technology might be a
solution work examining. I do not know if an On-Star operator can talk
to an equipped vehicle at On-Stars initiative, but certainly we have
the start of a system with a two-way radio with a satellite comms
link.

Admittedly, at the momeny On-Star is considered a luxury add-on option
and is currently available only in GM cars (to the best of my
knowledge.) But 23 years ago, I wrote a paper to my DOD bosses which
said this system the Swedes were developing called cellular phone
might have to be looked into. I was doing this as part of a survey on
new technologies which could have an impact upon intelligence
production. [I got a response from some Dilbert-type pinhead boss that
said it would go nowhere BTW]. Given a few years and some
competition, the On-Star paradigm could be as ubiquitous as
cell-phones are today. Even 23 years ago, I never forsaw the
possibility of virtually every teenager having a cell phone or that
there would be ten of them in just my immediate family [Wife, myself,
two adult children and their families. Son and his wife have two
systems each plus a Nextel.]

If an On-Star device, would be true two way, with GPS tracking, with
either end of the link able to activate the system. One could
broadcast a message to every active unit, either universally, or,
based upon GPS tracking to every unit with prescribed geo coordinates.
There already exists a somewhat similar system to broadcast weather
alerts to a passive receiver, although not normally deployed in cars.
Boaters already can have a Digital Selective Calling VHF radio in
their boats by which a coast guard can issue warnings. Such a system
is being mandated in the UK by a phase in process (e.g. new radios
with the old paradigm cannot be marketed unless they have DSC.)

And horror of horrors, one could alway investigate Broadband over
Powerlines (BPL). Wouldn't that give us hams some gas.

W3JT

On Wed, 5 Oct 2005 09:27:17 -0500, Richard Harrison wrote:

Disruption of all normal channels is unecessary and undesirable. Some
won`t be tuned-in and won`t immediately get the message. Nearly everyone
has eyes and ears. Sight and sound are useful to communicate.

Air horns as used on locomotives are designed to get attention. They are
heard at great distances.

Ever hear of The Quiet Zone rulings?

On Thu, 6 Oct 2005 18:38:04 -0400,
Ari Silversteinn wrote:
On Wed, 5 Oct 2005 09:27:17 -0500, Richard Harrison wrote:

Disruption of all normal channels is unecessary and undesirable. Some
won`t be tuned-in and won`t immediately get the message. Nearly everyone
has eyes and ears. Sight and sound are useful to communicate.

Air horns as used on locomotives are designed to get attention. They are
heard at great distances.

Ever hear of The Quiet Zone rulings?


you expect to get a special dispensation to blast all bands in an
emergency, but worry about noise ordinances?

--
Jim Richardson http://www.eskimo.com/~warlock
When you boil it down to the essentials, it's because Linux is designed
to be *used* and Windows is designed to be *sold*.

On Wed, 05 Oct 2005 10:08:49 GMT, Wayne P. Muckleroy wrote:

I think you will find that the FCC has the FINAL call on frequency band
usage. I can't see them authorizing such intrusive use of the normal
broadcast bands, especially after the broadcast industry gets wind of your
proposal.

They got wind. Intrusive? Matter of subjectivity. A 30 sec message that
envelopes a 3500 sided square?

From a technical standpoint, broadband transmission of a signal is not hard.
A simple VFO sweep of all the normal broadcast bands is all that is
required. Obviously, the appropriate modulation techniques would have to be
used for each band.

That's the way we see it, more or less.

Another approach would be the use of a local (LOW power) sweeping UP/DOWN
converter. In this method, you could transmit a specific (authorized) signal
from the site. This signal would be received and detected by a local
receiver. This information would be used to modulate and rebroadcast the
signal within the vehicle. However, this would require onboard equipment.

Which mat make this impractical in the short run but there has been
discussion about mandating this type of installation. I have my doubts but
then we have seat belts and airbags.

I still think that your biggest hurdle will a legal one.

Wayne-
(KC8UIO)

I agree. Thanks, Wayne.
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