"Roger Halstead" wrote in message
...

I shot this from my neighbor's back yard on the 13th of this month
(Nov 2003)
http://www.rogerhalstead.com/ham_files/Tower30.htm

I had to get a building permit for a tower this size and it had to
conform to the proper engineering standards. (the guy anchors weigh
17,000# each. The lower guys are 4,000# working strength and the top
set are over 6,000).


Exactly how tall is this big one? I'm green with envy.

Dee D. Flint, N8UZE

On Thu, 27 Nov 2003 19:23:59 GMT, "Dee D. Flint"
wrote:


"Roger Halstead" wrote in message
.. .

I shot this from my neighbor's back yard on the 13th of this month
(Nov 2003)
http://www.rogerhalstead.com/ham_files/Tower30.htm

I had to get a building permit for a tower this size and it had to
conform to the proper engineering standards. (the guy anchors weigh
17,000# each. The lower guys are 4,000# working strength and the top
set are over 6,000).


Exactly how tall is this big one? I'm green with envy.

Thanks! :-))


Twas all put up by hand too:-)) Which is why it took me nigh onto
two years to finish. Well, it'll never be finished as long as it's
up, but ...

The Tower is a 97 foot ROHN 45G. The antennas are mounted on steel
tubing which runs through thrust bearings at the top and about 12
feet below the top of the tower to a BogBoy Rotor.

The TH-5 tri-bander is at 100 feet, the 7 element C3i 6-meter beam
(with 28'10" boom) is at 115 feet. The 144 and 440 vertically
polarized arrays are on a cross boom at 130 feet.

If you change that link to tower.htm
( http://www.rogerhalstead.com/ham_files/Tower.htm ) it should link
to the whole story or just go to my home page, table of contents, and
click on "My Tower Project". There are also some shots of the
"office" end as well.

There is one photo of installing the TH-5 that will give a good idea
as to the scale of the antennas. Note a lot of that antenna work was
done in the winter with some pretty low wind chills.

"Doing it myself" was an educational and fun project, plus it saved a
whale of a lot of money. I have some fears if the county puts a jail
within 300 yards we won't be able to coexist and that'd mean moving.
I'd pretty much have to resort to having a professional crew come in,
take the tower down and then reinstall it where ever we moved which
would cost a small fortune which I'm not sure I could afford.

This is a nice quiet, rural subdivision with lots of Deer, Wild
Turkeys, and other critters that come right up in the yard.

BTW, IF you have a fast connection there is a panoramic view from the
top of the tower at
http://www.rogerhalstead.com/ham_files/towerview.htm It's a huge
file of roughly 19 Megs so it'd be a lost cause with dial-up. It's
not a great image as the images didn't match perfectly and created
some artifacts where they are stitched together. (I was standing on
the tower top plate with the wind gusting 20 MPH or so when I shot the
photos hand held) I'm going to build a bracket and attach the camera
to the mast. Then shoot an image about every 15 degrees as the
antennas are turned. Unfortunately the landscape is now much less
colorful.

73

Roger (K8RI)

You'll have to fix the return add due to dumb virus checkers, not spam
Roger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member)
(N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair?)
www.rogerhalstead.com

Dee D. Flint, N8UZE

On Thu, 27 Nov 2003 01:40:16 GMT, "Midwest Kid"
wrote:


wrote in message ...
Thank you.... .......

I am moving into a housing plan with such antenna restrictions. But
what housing plan doesn't have them. There is always someone trying to
tell some else how to live their lives, or knows what's best for you.

You people amaze me. If you don't like covenants, then don't move into the
neighborhood. The whole reason for the rules are to keep everything in
check. Something tells me that neither of you would wants someone putting
up some rusted out, 1970s RV and using it as a shed if the rules made that
'illegal'

The point: Many times it's not possible to purchase a home any where
near work, or schools, or convenient shopping without finding
restrictive CC&Rs. For instance in California you quite conceivably
might find it necessary to move a 100 miles to find such an area.
It's my understanding that there are a great many restrictions on
antennas in Florida.

Here? These are ordinances, not CC&Rs, I have to keep my grass mowed,
I can not keep cars up on blocks. I can not park a mobile home along
side the house for more than a couple months. I can not leave a motor
home parked in the driveway, or along side the house for more than a
couple of months, but I can build a garage big enough to park it
inside. I can not build a separate garage or shop larger than my
home. Virtually any major repair requires a building permit. There are
restrictions on outside antennas *except* for hams. "In recognition
for the service provided to the community" there are no restrictions
on ham antennas, but there are safety regulations. I have to abide by
the "set back" rules the same as anyone else and towers taller than 80
feet require a building permit and must be properly engineered. Using
the engineering data in the ROHN catalog is permitted.

We (hams) have a very good working relationship with the county. When
they built their new Law Enforcement Center the Emergency Operations
Center in it included a ham station. The mobile EOC van also has a
ham station built in. These are not just 2-meter FM mobiles either.

In addition, we are working on small, limited range portable repeaters
for voice, data, and video in conjunction with the EOC.

Some years back I served as the communications for one of the
evacuation centers when a train with some really nasty stuff, derailed
quite some distance away. That operation took a lot of hams as the
evacuation area was quite large. We were fortunate that the wind
pretty much favored us, but it changed enough that the shelter where I
was located had to be moved *in a hurry*. (I now carry a gas mask
in my kit) Moving a whole bunch of people who have just been awakened
at 2 AM, through a cloud of *stuff* that makes it difficult to breathe
and very limited visibility is an experience.

Where is here? Homer Township, Midland County Michigan.

You'll have to fix the return add due to dumb virus checkers, not spam
Roger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member)
(N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair?)
www.rogerhalstead.com

On Thu, 27 Nov 2003 02:07:32 GMT, "Midwest Kid"
wrote:


"Brenda Ann" wrote in message
...

I can understand where people have a right to not want someone storing a
dozen rusty cars on their front lawn, or allowing their grass to get 3'
tall.. but as far as antennas, etc.. they have no business telling a
homeowner what to do. It's not right that they should be telling people
what color they can paint their house, what kind of plants or animals they
can or cannot have, etc..

Then why the hell is it 'right' that they tell your neighbor they can't have
12 rusty cars in their yard? If you want to live without rules, get an
older farm house or something. Don't move into a neighborhood and then
complain about the rules you disagree with.

And that would solve what LOL
The majority of the land around here is zoned although the zoning
varies from township to township and county to county.

Here, even if you own the biggest farm in the region you still can't
have a pile of rusty cars in your yard. Now you could get your area
rezoned commercial and then get a license and then create a junk yard,
but it's more difficult to get farm land rezoned than to put a junk
yard near a residential area. You'd probably stand a better chance of
trying for the center of main street down town.


I attended a township meeting in another county and high on their list
was going after some guy who kept hauling junk into his yard against
zoning. (they figured most of it was stolen but old iron pipe and
tanks are difficult to trace).Another was some one with a bunch of old
tires laying out back. Besides being unsightly they are a health
hazard (mosquitoes and West Nile Virus) along with being a fire
hazard. One pile in a neighboring county caught fire. Now there was
a fire. There were over a million tires in that pile and it was a
legal storage.

Zoning tends to be along the lines of common sense. Safety for one
thing. CC&Rs OTOH are what some one wants to see, or not see, done or
not done, conformity. The ham tower serves a function whether of the
greatest aesthetic appeal or not. The rusty cars benefit no one
except possibly the owner.

So to when it comes to CC&Rs Vs ordinances. CC&Rs are open to
interpretation by the HOAs and they can change those interpretations.

Say you move into a nice subdivision and like many the CC&Rs are so
vague you need to get a legal opinion. Not satisfied you have the
head of the HOA give you his/her opinion. As far as they are
concerned you can put up that 100 foot tower on your 4 acre million
dollar lot with the two million dollar home. You purchase, move in,
put up the tower and get a visit from the members of the HOA who tell
you the tower must come down. You point out the discussion with the
head of the HOA and they simply state they must work in unison and
he/she does not speak for the entire HOA.

Say you had the foresight to get the contract in writing. The same as
above applies. Or they can downright change their minds as to the
interpretation. Now with a lengthy legal battle and I assume any one
owning a house and lot worth three million could afford to do that,
there is no guarantee you'd win. Also due to being the outsider you
would open yourself up for harassment which you might have a difficult
time proving.

So back up to the zoning and regulations. Say you don't have to worry
about CC&Rs, but discover the township has a prohibition against any
structure over 25 feet. Typically, with a tactful approach pointing
out that they are superseding a federal law when it comes to amateur
radio towers might get you that variance. We had just such a case in a
township north of Midland. Several hams had tried for years to put up
towers, but to no avail. A new guy moved in and several months later
had a 60 foot tower. He took the proper approach and was prepared.

OTOH if the township is immovable, you most likely will win a court
battle and lawsuit, but it takes money to do that. Most often a *lot*
of money. Normally a lot more than you'd get back. Vindictive
township officials can be a royal pain, but nothing like vindictive
HOAs.

OTOH you might discover there are no homes available without overly
restrictive CC&Rs within 50 miles of your new job that pays $50,000 a
year. What HOA are you going to fight on that much?.

Having said all that, I fully expect to see passage of a bill that
will void any CC&R restriction on ham antennas deemed unreasonable
within the next decade IF government continues in its current
direction of recognizing the amateur service as an asset.
Particularly in the light of Homeland Security.

You'll have to fix the return add due to dumb virus checkers, not spam
Roger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member)
(N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair?)
www.rogerhalstead.com

"Roger Halstead" wrote in message
...
We (hams) have a very good working relationship with the county. When
they built their new Law Enforcement Center the Emergency Operations
Center in it included a ham station. The mobile EOC van also has a
ham station built in. These are not just 2-meter FM mobiles either.

In addition, we are working on small, limited range portable repeaters
for voice, data, and video in conjunction with the EOC.

Some years back I served as the communications for one of the
evacuation centers when a train with some really nasty stuff, derailed
quite some distance away. That operation took a lot of hams as the
evacuation area was quite large. We were fortunate that the wind
pretty much favored us, but it changed enough that the shelter where I
was located had to be moved *in a hurry*. (I now carry a gas mask
in my kit) Moving a whole bunch of people who have just been awakened
at 2 AM, through a cloud of *stuff* that makes it difficult to breathe
and very limited visibility is an experience.

And therein lies the major difference. Whereas it is not a 'mandate' in the
true sense of the word, it has long been a standing relationship between
amateur radio ops and the local, state and federal authorities that hams
perform essential communications and other assistance during times of
emergency. (this is why, among other things, ham plates are not considered
vanity plates in most, if not all, states). And these towers and arrays are
important to the facilitation of those emergency communications.

On Fri, 21 Nov 2003 16:31:45 -0500, Dave Holford
wrote:



Frank Dresser wrote:

"A.Pismo Clam" wrote in message
...
Hello All!
snip

The thought occurs to me that in the "good old days" aircraft used to
have wire antennas, either strung around the airframe or trailing below
and behind.

Some still do


Modern, high speed, aircraft can't do this so they have various
solutions including HF probes and conformal antennas (I have seen
unpainted panels on some large military aircraft which were identified
as HF antennas) and it is not difficult to receive their signals over
distances of several thousand miles. I wonder why no one has, at least
as far as I am aware, attempted to adapt these solutions to Ham Radio?

The aircraft has a height above Terrain (HAT) advantage that few homes
are ever going to obtain. :-))


I have personal experience, some 40 years ago, with an HF antenna which
consisted of the top half of the tail (about a 15 to 20 foot square
metal surface) which was tuned by a remote ATU (Collins CU-351 ISTR) and
performed at least as well as a fixed wire over the range of 2.5 to 30
MHz. I had considered at one time covering one end of the house with
foil and trying the idea against ground, but for some reason I
encountered some opposition from another member of my household. I think
she figured 15 antennas was enough!

Then there is the problem of electrical wiring on the inside of the
wall too. :-))

The plane I'm building (335 MPH hot rod) is all advanced composite.
The plans call for the antennas to all be inside. Unfortunately the
VOR antenna is supposed to be in the horizontal stabilizer. They
changed the material so the horizontal stab is all carbon fiber.
Wellll...maybe it'd be good for deicing.

You'll have to fix the return add due to dumb virus checkers, not spam
Roger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member)
(N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair?)
www.rogerhalstead.com


Dave
VE3HLU

On Sat, 22 Nov 2003 18:27:04 GMT, "Dee D. Flint"
wrote:


"Stinger" wrote in message
...
Homeowners associations are a good thing! They are basically an agreement
that you and your neighbors will follow some clearly defined rules for the
specific purpose of maintining optimum property values for everyone. In
other words, you won't have to worry about buying an expensive house and
having your next-door neighbor decide to use his yard to store a dozen
wrecked automobiles while he builds a hot-rod or runs a car-repair
business.
Common sense should tell anyone that their rights end when they start to
infringe on anyone else's, but sometimes you need it in writing. ;^)


Don't need a homeowner's association to prevent those kinds of violations.
Cities have ordinances against them. If someone violates the ordinance you
can file a complaint.

Receiving antennas are easily concealed. If you can find mine from the
street, you were born on Krypton. I think this is an overly-hyped
problem.

And as Dee says, these are the kinds of installations that are more
likely to cause interference.


Broadcasting antennas are another animal, though. For instance, nobody
wants to live next to some clown running a bunch of linear amps through a
CB
"base station." It will literally be "seen" on well-shielded cable
television connections, and is a nuisance. I think that's a lot of what

That is a fault of the cable or someone using the cable even if the
amps are illegal and covered by some rather strict laws.
..
All it takes is one poorly shielded device hooked to the cable near a
transmitter. The device can create harmonics and mixing products that
will wipe out a channel, or even the entier service to an area. A
good example would be an attic antenna next door to some one who
hooked their rabbit ears to their TV set with the cable still
connected. The lower antenna is closer to the set and more likely
to cause interference. It is also more likely to couple RF into the
house electrical wiring causing all sorts of problems due to RF in
radios, TVs, stereos, CD players and computers.

I once took out an entier city's cable system with a 2-meter HT as a
demonstration. (a very brief demonstration at the cable office).
Two days later you couldn't find a leak in the system any where in
town.
the
"external antenna" rules are meant to curb.

-- Stinger


Again such CB operation is illegal and they can be just as big or bigger a
nuisance with a mobile operation. Some of these guys have multikilowatt
amps in their vehicles.

Such association rules force the LEGALLY LICENSED operator to use low height
indoor and hidden antennas. Theses types of antennas are far more prone to
generate interference than something well up on a tower.

And it exposes the user to RF fields far greater than normal.
There is a reason I have my 2-meter antennas at 130 feet. Even there
I am limited to 380 watts into the antennas due to exposure limits.
At 30 feet I'd not even be able to stay with in limits using my 50
watt mobile on those antennas. Considering there is 228 feet of coax
from the rig to the antennas I could probably run a KW output and not
exceed the limits.

Actually...when it comes to exposure limits: My TH-5 is at 100 feet.
With 1500 watts into the antenna the RF limits for controlled access
are 6 feet above the ground at the base of the tower. I guess I
should paint a red strip around the tower at 6 feet. As that is slant
distance the height goes up rapidly as you move away from the base of
the tower

You'll have to fix the return add due to dumb virus checkers, not spam
Roger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member)
(N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair?)
www.rogerhalstead.com.



Dee D. Flint, N8UZE

"Midwest Kid" wrote:

But if you were selling your home and I had a 1980 rusted Honda on blocks
plus a used beer keg as a 'bird bath', do you honestly think that everyone
that looked at your home wouldn't mind me as your neighbor?

Ah yes, the "but if he paints his house orange and puts a giant
unicorn on the front lawn, the resale value of the properties in the
area will drop!" nonsense. Let us suppose this would in fact occur.
The neighbours gang together and nail an invoice to his door, and this
is the "right" thing to do. What about the converse? Suppose someone
instead made their property into a gorgeous work of art that _raised_
the value of the neighbouring properties? Surely this means he can
issue invoices to all the neighbours he has "helped", right?

That is the whole point of covenants. Something that protects me
when I want to sell.

_YOU_ protect your own property. It is why it is yours and not
someone elses. These HOA's and similar entities are the analog of
labour unions for property owners. Complete idiocy, with _ALL_ of the
hideous bad effects of such things. Why have two bosses when one is
bad enough? The protection you refer to is as illusory as the
thousands of unionized workers who lose their jobs every year: "It's
in the contract. So sorry."

Oops!

If you change that link to tower.htm
( http://www.rogerhalstead.com/ham_files/Tower.htm ) it should link

I should type what I say...
http://www.rogerhalstead.com/ham_files/tower.htm

Roger (K8RI)
You'll have to fix the return add due to dumb virus checkers, not spam
Roger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member)
(N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair?)
www.rogerhalstead.com

WHO are you to tell me or someone else what you consider is "in check"
or not? You deal with your property and the rest of us shall deal with
ours. Your starting to sound like your on the board of some HOA who
enjoys telling their neighbors what they can and cannot do on THEIR
property.

People that purchase a nice house for let's say 200,000+ are not going
to have some junk vehicle sitting in their yard, paint the house bright
pink, etc.. Most HOA's require you to hook up to (how is getting the
kick back)cable, they don't want even the 18" dishes. Well they finally
have lost out on that one. That's only the start.

Trespassers will be dealt with according to the law. That includes HOA
COPS.

Midwest Kid wrote:

wrote in message ...
Thank you.... .......

I am moving into a housing plan with such antenna restrictions. But
what housing plan doesn't have them. There is always someone trying to
tell some else how to live their lives, or knows what's best for you.

You people amaze me. If you don't like covenants, then don't move into the
neighborhood. The whole reason for the rules are to keep everything in
check. Something tells me that neither of you would wants someone putting
up some rusted out, 1970s RV and using it as a shed if the rules made that
'illegal'