Dang, dang, dang...

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/10/17/te...owerlines.html

bob
k5qwg

In article , Bob Miller wrote:
Dang, dang, dang...

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/10/17/te...owerlines.html

They laughed at me when I asked them to boycott Google. Now it's come home
to roost. Current Communications is funded partily by Google.

I hate being right.

Geoff.


--
Geoffrey S. Mendelson, Jerusalem, Israel N3OWJ/4X1GM
IL Voice: (077)-424-1667 IL Fax: 972-2-648-1443 U.S. Voice: 1-215-821-1838
Support the growing boycott of Google by radio users and hobbyists.
It's starting to work, Yahoo has surpassed Google.

ARRL has recently reported quite acceptable compatibility results in
some BPL programs they have been testing.

I forget the details, 68 years old and suffering from occasional 'old
timers disease', but the info should be available from ARRL.

It is possible that acceptable BPL technology has arrived!

AK

Bob Miller wrote:
Dang, dang, dang...

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/10/17/te...owerlines.html

bob
k5qwg

On Mon, 17 Oct 2005 07:36:01 -0400, Amos Keag
wrote:

ARRL has recently reported quite acceptable compatibility results in
some BPL programs they have been testing.

I forget the details, 68 years old and suffering from occasional 'old
timers disease', but the info should be available from ARRL.

It is possible that acceptable BPL technology has arrived!

AK

Motorola has a system that uses the low voltage side of the pole
transformer; supposedly, it has less interferance problems.

bob
k5qwg



Bob Miller wrote:
Dang, dang, dang...

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/10/17/te...owerlines.html

bob
k5qwg

In article , Amos Keag wrote:
ARRL has recently reported quite acceptable compatibility results in
some BPL programs they have been testing.

I forget the details, 68 years old and suffering from occasional 'old
timers disease', but the info should be available from ARRL.

It is possible that acceptable BPL technology has arrived!

No.

It's acceptable to the ARRL because they "notch out" the ham bands. This
means that it interfers with everyone except ham radio operators so they
wash their hands of it.

What will happen is as people complain about interference from BPL,
operators will move the frequencies it uses to avoid the complaints.
If they bother at all, an engineer will take a portable radio to
the site, pull up the antenna and listen. If he does not hear English,
he'll log that there is nothing to prevent them moving the notch
there and that frequency will be used.

Since HF propigation changes from hour to hour and day to day, a
frequency can still be in use but he wouldn't notice it. Eventually due
to demand and no one complaining too loudly all frequencies in the HF
band will be in use. By that time no one will listen to the few hams
that complain.

My experience with a starting a Google boycott shows me that hams really
don't care. The operator of one very popular site dedicate to ham radio
and I discussed it and he said that they could not afford to eliminate
the "Ads by Google" and gave me a polite rationalization of why they
should do nothing.

This is called the boiled lobster effect. A lobster placed in a pot of
cold water will be happy for the change. As the pot gets warmer the
lobster gets drowsy. By the time the water gets hot enough to cook it,
the lobster has been lulled into oblivion. That's what will happen
with BPL.

It's already started.

Geoff.

--
Geoffrey S. Mendelson, Jerusalem, Israel N3OWJ/4X1GM
IL Voice: (077)-424-1667 IL Fax: 972-2-648-1443 U.S. Voice: 1-215-821-1838
You should have boycotted Google while you could, now Google supported
BPL is in action. Time is running out on worldwide radio communication.

"Geoffrey S. Mendelson" wrote in message
...
In article , Amos Keag wrote:
ARRL has recently reported quite acceptable compatibility results in
some BPL programs they have been testing.

I forget the details, 68 years old and suffering from occasional 'old
timers disease', but the info should be available from ARRL.
It is possible that acceptable BPL technology has arrived!

No.
It's acceptable to the ARRL ...

Geoff.,

Your words not theirs. "They" (I'm in contact with "them") have
reservations and are aware of the outside-notch problem.
The advantage of this system (I'm not saying it's the solution or even a
great idea, but an attempt to provide an alternative in light of the
relentless push to do it regardless of interference potential) is that is
takes less energy to get from the pole to the house than down the whole
medium voltage power grid. The HomePlug(tm) protocol will be / is in homes
already, so even without this style of BPL, the garbage'll be in the air --
and not necessarily with the limited protection mechanisims (for HF users)in
this system.. It's an attempt to find an approach to satisfy both sides,
which no one else is attempting to do, including the his Ignorance at the
top.


...because they "notch out" the ham bands. This
means that it interfers with everyone except ham radio operators so they
wash their hands of it. ...
... If they bother at all, an engineer will take a portable radio to
the site, pull up the antenna and listen.

There are much better solutions in the works... Again, I'm not a
proponent, just saying there are those who are trying to minimize the
problems with an, unfortunately, inevitable thing.

The thing here is that Motorola at least kept in contact with one of the
groups opposing BPL rather than just ramming it into a power grid and
totally iognoring all reason/physics, even appropriate complaints.

...If he does not hear English,
he'll log that there is nothing to prevent them moving the notch
there and that frequency will be used.

You mean if he DOES here Engilsh he will move the notch there and
the frequency will NOT be used? The notches go where the turned-off
carriers are so the residual energy gets attenuated even more.

No argument with the rest of this. BPL is an unfortunately ignorant
approach to a non existent problem.

Interesting that the article ignores the foreign systems which were shut
down, but then they were only given the party line...

'nuf said...

73, Steve, K,9.D'C;I
Yes, you guessed who I work for and what I have knowledge of...

This is called the boiled lobster effect.

I thought it was a Frog ? ! and I call it de-regulation.

In article , Steve Nosko wrote:
There are much better solutions in the works... Again, I'm not a
proponent, just saying there are those who are trying to minimize the
problems with an, unfortunately, inevitable thing.

I disagree with that. It's inevitable because Google was one of three
companies that invested $100,000,000 in Current Communications. If EVERY
HAM boycotted Google and made sure they and their advertisers knew it,
they would drop it like a hot potato.

Google exists because of their Adsense product. If advertising with
adsense lost customers instead of gaining them, then advertisers would
look for alternate ways to spend their money. If they did that, Google
would not continue their support of BPL.


The thing here is that Motorola at least kept in contact with one of the
groups opposing BPL rather than just ramming it into a power grid and
totally iognoring all reason/physics, even appropriate complaints.

I have not seen the technical specs of the Motorola system so I can't
comment on it, but the rumor is that it does work and does not interfere.


You mean if he DOES here Engilsh he will move the notch there and
the frequency will NOT be used? The notches go where the turned-off
carriers are so the residual energy gets attenuated even more.

Yes. If here he hears English, he will assume there is someone who can
point to his power lines and show there is a problem. If he hears another
language, he will assume that the people whom he will interfere with
are too far away to walk up to his wires and show they are a problem.

No argument with the rest of this. BPL is an unfortunately ignorant
approach to a non existent problem.

IHMO exactly.


Interesting that the article ignores the foreign systems which were shut
down, but then they were only given the party line...

Yes, it has been a dismal failure just about everywhere it has been
tested. It causes too much interference and works so poorly that no one
could afford it without a big sum of money up front. If they make $10 a
month profit from each customer it will take a long time and a lot of
users to get back $100,000,000.


This is called the boiled lobster effect.

I thought it was a Frog ? ! and I call it de-regulation.

Same thing, but more people know a boiled lobster than boiled frog.
To me it does not matter, they are both nonkosher. :-)

Geoff.

--
Geoffrey S. Mendelson, Jerusalem, Israel N3OWJ/4X1GM
IL Voice: (077)-424-1667 IL Fax: 972-2-648-1443 U.S. Voice: 1-215-821-1838
You should have boycotted Google while you could, now Google supported
BPL is in action. Time is running out on worldwide radio communication.