On 23 Nov 2005 20:29:37 GMT, Allodoxaphobia
wrote:


Too much ruckus has been focused on the 'No Code License' issue.
The ruckus should, instead, be focused on the 'No Clue License'.

I never mentioned the no-code licence... we got over that over a year
ago down under.

I suggest it is not a matter of the no-clue licence, but the no-clue
licensee, who could be licensed in any grade.

Owen
(Spelling correct for country of origin!)
--

Owen Duffy wrote:

On 23 Nov 2005 20:29:37 GMT, Allodoxaphobia
wrote:



Too much ruckus has been focused on the 'No Code License' issue.
The ruckus should, instead, be focused on the 'No Clue License'.


I never mentioned the no-code licence... we got over that over a year
ago down under.

I suggest it is not a matter of the no-clue licence, but the no-clue
licensee, who could be licensed in any grade.

Owen
(Spelling correct for country of origin!)
--

Correct. I have personally met more extras without a clue than
generals, and that's not percentage-wise. Your personal mileage may
vary, but a lot of extras seem to be really code oriented or contest
oriented, and did nothing but memorize the technical questions answers
(US) to pass.

I do not maean to disparage anyone who got their license by legitimate
means.

Wasn't there a scandal around that sort of thing a while ago. The name
West comes to mind, but I truthfully don't remember anything more than that.

tom
K0TAR

It's interesting you mention that, Tom.

I just got my Extra last month. Now, I admit I am not an electronics
expert. I had to study really hard before I felt I could take the test.
What was funny was actually taking the test.

There were a total of six people testing. Myself and five others. Two
going for Technician, two going for General, and two going for Extra (myself
and one other guy I didn't know). So, I'm pounding away on the calculator
and the other Extra finishes before anyone. He must have only taken ten
minutes, if that. He had to of memorized the answers. Actually there were
a total of three people who had to have memorized the questions. No way
they could have finished so fast. Actually, I was the only one who brought
a calculator, so that tells you something.

What was really interesting to me was that the other Extra had now passed
all the writtens, but had never passed the 5 WPM code test. So, no HF
priveleges until he does that.

I was licensed fifteen years ago and got up through Advanced and took the
code tests. But I moved out of state and never got around to taking the
Extra. Now, it's all changed and there are only three tests.

Anyway, interesting experience.

Rod KI7CQ

"Rod Maupin" wrote in message
...
It's interesting you mention that, Tom.

I just got my Extra last month. Now, I admit I am not an electronics
expert. I had to study really hard before I felt I could take the test.
What was funny was actually taking the test.

There were a total of six people testing. Myself and five others. Two
going for Technician, two going for General, and two going for Extra
(myself
and one other guy I didn't know). So, I'm pounding away on the calculator
and the other Extra finishes before anyone. He must have only taken ten
minutes, if that. He had to of memorized the answers. Actually there
were
a total of three people who had to have memorized the questions. No way
they could have finished so fast. Actually, I was the only one who
brought
a calculator, so that tells you something.

What was really interesting to me was that the other Extra had now passed
all the writtens, but had never passed the 5 WPM code test. So, no HF
priveleges until he does that.

I was licensed fifteen years ago and got up through Advanced and took the
code tests. But I moved out of state and never got around to taking the
Extra. Now, it's all changed and there are only three tests.

Anyway, interesting experience.

Rod KI7CQ


Instead of studying electronics you should have been studying the qusetion
and answer book. When the questions are the same as in the book , it is no
use learning anything for a test.
I had the tech license for about 25 years. Just did not want to take time
for the code and did not care anything for the lowbands anyway. The job I
had gave me some free time on the night shift so I finally decided to take
in some code tapes and learn the code on company time. Went to Advanced and
about a year later the Extra. I never did get a chance to look at the Q&A
book. I did not need a calculator fo rthe tests. The answers are usualy
broad enough you can almost guess at them and a quick check with a pencil
and paper will do.

I have not seen the new Extra exam but the old one was very easy compaired
to the old Advanced exam. By the way, in 1972 when I took the First Class
Phone license there were no calculators or Q&A books with the exect Q&As.

Ralph Mowery wrote:
"Rod Maupin" wrote in message
...

It's interesting you mention that, Tom.

I just got my Extra last month. Now, I admit I am not an electronics
expert. I had to study really hard before I felt I could take the test.
What was funny was actually taking the test.

There were a total of six people testing. Myself and five others. Two
going for Technician, two going for General, and two going for Extra

(myself

and one other guy I didn't know). So, I'm pounding away on the calculator
and the other Extra finishes before anyone. He must have only taken ten
minutes, if that. He had to of memorized the answers. Actually there

were

a total of three people who had to have memorized the questions. No way
they could have finished so fast. Actually, I was the only one who

brought

a calculator, so that tells you something.

What was really interesting to me was that the other Extra had now passed
all the writtens, but had never passed the 5 WPM code test. So, no HF
priveleges until he does that.

I was licensed fifteen years ago and got up through Advanced and took the
code tests. But I moved out of state and never got around to taking the
Extra. Now, it's all changed and there are only three tests.

Anyway, interesting experience.

Rod KI7CQ



Instead of studying electronics you should have been studying the qusetion
and answer book. When the questions are the same as in the book , it is no
use learning anything for a test.

Where do you get that, Ralph? That license isn't the final goal. It's
the beginning. If all a person wants to do is pass some test, I suppose
they could memorize Q and A. - although I might postulate that
memorizing over 800 questions for the Extra might be harder than simply
learning the material.



I had the tech license for about 25 years. Just did not want to take time
for the code and did not care anything for the lowbands anyway. The job I
had gave me some free time on the night shift so I finally decided to take
in some code tapes and learn the code on company time. Went to Advanced and
about a year later the Extra. I never did get a chance to look at the Q&A
book. I did not need a calculator fo rthe tests. The answers are usualy
broad enough you can almost guess at them and a quick check with a pencil
and paper will do.

You had 25 years of studying for the exams!


I have not seen the new Extra exam but the old one was very easy compaired
to the old Advanced exam. By the way, in 1972 when I took the First Class
Phone license there were no calculators or Q&A books with the exect Q&As.

I keep hearing about the magical olde time Advanced Amateurs. I wish
they would get jobs at Radio Shack and straighten people out! ;^)

- 73 de Mike KB3EIA -

Instead of studying electronics you should have been studying the
qusetion
and answer book. When the questions are the same as in the book , it is
no
use learning anything for a test.

Where do you get that, Ralph? That license isn't the final goal. It's
the beginning. If all a person wants to do is pass some test, I suppose
they could memorize Q and A. - although I might postulate that
memorizing over 800 questions for the Extra might be harder than simply
learning the material.



Getting the license is the first goal. You have to memorize the rules to
answer many of the questions. Might as well memorize the other parts too.
You get your license and you can start to learn about ham radio.
Sometimes the questions can be deceiving and what may be a correct answer
may not be the "best" answer.

As far as getting good answers about most anything at RAdio Shack or many
other stores , what do you expect from someone making the wages they pay ?
You do not get a salesman and electronics engineer for those wages. Try
going into any store, say Wal-Mart and pick out an area and ask some
specific questions about the products and see what they have to say.
Chances are you will get the same dumb look and maybe a dumb answer.

Ralph Mowery wrote:
. . .
As far as getting good answers about most anything at RAdio Shack or many
other stores , what do you expect from someone making the wages they pay ?
You do not get a salesman and electronics engineer for those wages. Try
going into any store, say Wal-Mart and pick out an area and ask some
specific questions about the products and see what they have to say.
Chances are you will get the same dumb look and maybe a dumb answer.

One of the reasons this is the only choice we have is that in times
past, there were stores which did pay the employees enough to get people
who understood the products. People would go in, get their questions
answered, then go to the Wal-Marts and Radio Shacks to buy the item
because it was cheaper there. We've gotten what we created and what we
collectively deserve.

Roy Lewallen, W7EL

Ralph Mowery wrote:
Instead of studying electronics you should have been studying the

qusetion

and answer book. When the questions are the same as in the book , it is

no

use learning anything for a test.

Where do you get that, Ralph? That license isn't the final goal. It's
the beginning. If all a person wants to do is pass some test, I suppose
they could memorize Q and A. - although I might postulate that
memorizing over 800 questions for the Extra might be harder than simply
learning the material.




Getting the license is the first goal. You have to memorize the rules to
answer many of the questions. Might as well memorize the other parts too.
You get your license and you can start to learn about ham radio.

Hmmm, I suspect that someone who wanted to learn about ham radio would
start that process during the preparations for the test. Those who would
want to memorize entire question pools probably won't be too interested
in actually learning anything both before or afterward the memorization.
As well as not too bright.

Sometimes the questions can be deceiving and what may be a correct answer
may not be the "best" answer.

Sure enough. I once took a test in which I was required to answer "the
temperature at which solder melts. A through D were all possible answers
in this case, because they didn't specify which ratio the solder was. I
wrote "E, all of the above" Turns out they "meant" 60/40 solder. So I
got the "wrong answer" even though I was a lot more correct than they were.

But that is life sometimes.

As far as getting good answers about most anything at RAdio Shack or many
other stores , what do you expect from someone making the wages they pay ?

I expect a correct answer, or "I'm sorry, but I'm don't really know".

You do not get a salesman and electronics engineer for those wages.

One doesn't need to be an electronics engineer to have an intelligent
outlook.


Try
going into any store, say Wal-Mart and pick out an area and ask some
specific questions about the products and see what they have to say.
Chances are you will get the same dumb look and maybe a dumb answer.

Set your expectations low enough, and you'll seldom be disappointed! 8^)

- 73 de Mike KB3EIA -

Rod Maupin wrote:
So, I'm pounding away on the calculator
and the other Extra finishes before anyone. He must have only taken ten
minutes, if that. He had to of memorized the answers.

Rod, I finished that trivial Extra exam in 10 minutes and
I can assure you, with a EE degree and MENSA membership,
I didn't memorize the answers.
--
73, Cecil http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp

Cecil Moore wrote:
Rod Maupin wrote:

So, I'm pounding away on the calculator and the other Extra finishes
before anyone. He must have only taken ten minutes, if that. He had
to of memorized the answers.


Rod, I finished that trivial Extra exam in 10 minutes and
I can assure you, with a EE degree and MENSA membership,
I didn't memorize the answers.


But it does happen. Back in the 20 WPM days, maybe ten years ago, one
ham I know .. who was a former Navy telegraph op .. passed the written
part by memorizing every Q&A. And it showed: He was a technical
know-nothing. Nice guy, though.

Phil