On 29 Nov 2003 02:25:58 GMT, (K9SQG) wrote:

That is not a wise idea. If your mast takes a direct hit, or if there is one
nearby, there is a possibility that some of the energy will go into the house
via that ground rod. Antenna grounds should always be isolated from
housewiring grounds.

Here I have everything tied together, but it's not a normal
installation. There are 30 ground rods connected by over 600 feet of
bare #2 copper. All ground rods are bonded (CadWelded) together
forming a network which should keep any particular ground and
equipment at the same potential no mater where which tower would be
hit. Although the likely hood of anything other than the main tower
getting hit is unlikely. It's 130 feet, the top of the multi band
vertical on the shop is 60 feet and the mast at the other end of the
house is only 25 feet.

You'll have to fix the return add due to dumb virus checkers, not spam
Roger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member)
(N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair?)
www.rogerhalstead.com

(K9SQG) wrote in message ...
That is not a wise idea. If your mast takes a direct hit, or if there is one
nearby, there is a possibility that some of the energy will go into the house
via that ground rod. Antenna grounds should always be isolated from
housewiring grounds.


If all grounds are at the same potential, no current can flow between them.
Not to mention the NEC requires it in the U.S. MK

On 29 Nov 2003 02:25:58 GMT, (K9SQG) wrote:

That is not a wise idea. If your mast takes a direct hit, or if there is one
nearby, there is a possibility that some of the energy will go into the house
via that ground rod. Antenna grounds should always be isolated from
housewiring grounds.

Well, you are certainly spouting bull****! According to my 1996 copy
of the National Elecrtic Code, all grounds are to be bonded together.
Safety grounds, lightning grounds and antenna grounds. This is laid
out in sections 260, 800 and 820. I may have section 260 off a little
but I'm sure about 800 and 820. My NEC is at work on my desk where is
sees daily use resolving grounding issues concerning LAN, WAN and
telecom equipment. Talk to a telco central office construction
engineer (I work with them every day) about lightning, equipment and
safety grounds. Ask them what happens when one or another gets
isolated from the others.

Stop thinking with your ass and start using your head. Believe me, if
your insurance company found out that you wired things up contrary to
the NEC, they would have excellent grounds (pun intended) not to pay.

Russ

On Sat, 29 Nov 2003 05:23:05 GMT, Roger Halstead
wrote:

On 29 Nov 2003 02:25:58 GMT, (K9SQG) wrote:

That is not a wise idea. If your mast takes a direct hit, or if there is one
nearby, there is a possibility that some of the energy will go into the house
via that ground rod. Antenna grounds should always be isolated from
housewiring grounds.

Here I have everything tied together, but it's not a normal
installation. There are 30 ground rods connected by over 600 feet of
bare #2 copper. All ground rods are bonded (CadWelded) together
forming a network which should keep any particular ground and
equipment at the same potential no mater where which tower would be
hit. Although the likely hood of anything other than the main tower
getting hit is unlikely. It's 130 feet, the top of the multi band
vertical on the shop is 60 feet and the mast at the other end of the
house is only 25 feet.


Nice work Roger, ever work for the telephone company?

Russ

On Sat, 29 Nov 2003 15:05:07 GMT, Russ wrote:

On Sat, 29 Nov 2003 05:23:05 GMT, Roger Halstead
wrote:

On 29 Nov 2003 02:25:58 GMT, (K9SQG) wrote:

That is not a wise idea. If your mast takes a direct hit, or if there is one
nearby, there is a possibility that some of the energy will go into the house
via that ground rod. Antenna grounds should always be isolated from
housewiring grounds.

Here I have everything tied together, but it's not a normal
installation. There are 30 ground rods connected by over 600 feet of
bare #2 copper. All ground rods are bonded (CadWelded) together
forming a network which should keep any particular ground and
equipment at the same potential no mater where which tower would be
hit. Although the likely hood of anything other than the main tower
getting hit is unlikely. It's 130 feet, the top of the multi band
vertical on the shop is 60 feet and the mast at the other end of the
house is only 25 feet.


Nice work Roger, ever work for the telephone company?

Nope! I had to purchase everything. Hence the reason for me doing all
the work:-))
Welll...come to think of it, way back in the early 50s my dad was a
lineman on one of the old privately owned rural lines. I got to do a
lot of pole climbing. I still have the old portable test set... and
memories of splinters.

You'll have to fix the return add due to dumb virus checkers, not spam
Roger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member)
(N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair?)
www.rogerhalstead.com

Russ

On 29 Nov 2003 02:35:22 -0800, (Mark Keith) wrote:

(K9SQG) wrote in message ...
That is not a wise idea. If your mast takes a direct hit, or if there is one
nearby, there is a possibility that some of the energy will go into the house
via that ground rod. Antenna grounds should always be isolated from
housewiring grounds.


If all grounds are at the same potential, no current can flow between them.
Not to mention the NEC requires it in the U.S. MK

When you figure the rise time there can easily be several thousand
volts between the base of the antenna mast and the electrical system
ground. IE the voltage could be 50,000 at the tower and not even have
started to rise at the electrical ground.

It's not just a simple CD circuit.
I've seen tower strikes where there was such a strong current and fast
rise time, the magnetic field quenched the current flow and the
lightening got off part way down and jumped sideways to something
else.

You'll have to fix the return add due to dumb virus checkers, not spam
Roger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member)
(N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair?)
www.rogerhalstead.com

Roger Halstead wrote in message . ..
On 29 Nov 2003 02:35:22 -0800, (Mark Keith) wrote:

(K9SQG) wrote in message ...
That is not a wise idea. If your mast takes a direct hit, or if there is one
nearby, there is a possibility that some of the energy will go into the house
via that ground rod. Antenna grounds should always be isolated from
housewiring grounds.


If all grounds are at the same potential, no current can flow between them.
Not to mention the NEC requires it in the U.S. MK

When you figure the rise time there can easily be several thousand
volts between the base of the antenna mast and the electrical system
ground. IE the voltage could be 50,000 at the tower and not even have
started to rise at the electrical ground.

In my case, those are pretty much the same place. All my grounds tend
to rise in potential at the same time, being they are all tied
together at the base of the mast. Nothing is perfect of course, but
you sure don't want any large potential differences between grounds.

It's not just a simple CD circuit.
I've seen tower strikes where there was such a strong current and fast
rise time, the magnetic field quenched the current flow and the
lightening got off part way down and jumped sideways to something
else.

If I remember right, the original poster was going to mount an antenna
on a roof. That has the potential for even more serious problems if
the antenna acts as a lightning rod. He'd want as few turns or sharp
bends in the ground wire to earth. This is why I much prefer using a
metal mast on the side of the house to support verticals or other high
risk antennas, rather than a mast attached to the roof of the house.
And then hoping a ground wire will safely direct the charge to
earth...It usually will, at least much better than the house itself,
but it's kind of scary if it has turns or bends.
The important part at the house is making sure that everything rises
together so there's no lower resistance path for the charge to take
through the shack or house. At the mast, I always tape all coaxes or
wires to the mast, and run them all the way down to earth to try to
avoid flashing problems. So far in two strikes to the mast, I haven't
noticed any, and I have a breaker box, elevated power lead in, phone
lines, cable lines, all within 5 ft of that mast. MK

Consider:

The National Electric Code says otherwise. Earth ground is *not*
considered adequate bonding for the purposes of electrical safety.

The bonding rule is there for a very good reason... safety.


Bonding the grounds together will cost maybe $10 worth of wire. It's
cheap insurance.

My main pannel's nutral bar is attached to a stranded 2AWG wire attached to
the cold water pipe (from 1963). Other work done in 2001 by a contractor
has a solid 6AWG wire on the nutral bar, going out to a stake in the back
yard. He tied the gas line in the house, to the cold water pipe, and also,
in another area of the basement, tied the copper sewer line to the cold
water line. Am I good-as-gold with this setup?

alex
batsonaatcomcastdotnet

The National Electric Code says otherwise. Earth ground is *not*
considered adequate bonding for the purposes of electrical safety.

The bonding rule is there for a very good reason... safety.


Bonding the grounds together will cost maybe $10 worth of wire. It's
cheap insurance.

My main pannel's nutral bar is attached to a stranded 2AWG wire attached to
the cold water pipe (from 1963). Other work done in 2001 by a contractor
has a solid 6AWG wire on the nutral bar, going out to a stake in the back
yard. He tied the gas line in the house, to the cold water pipe, and also,
in another area of the basement, tied the copper sewer line to the cold
water line. Am I good-as-gold with this setup?

I can't speak for the legalities of the situation (only your local
code inspector can), but it sure sounds good to me! Keep up this
approach with any new grounding points/rods you add, and I think
you'll be in very good shape.

--
Dave Platt AE6EO
Hosting the Jade Warrior home page: http://www.radagast.org/jade-warrior
I do _not_ wish to receive unsolicited commercial email, and I will
boycott any company which has the gall to send me such ads!

Though in practice you are correct to express concern, your reason is
not properly stated. You further the lighting rod myth.

Actually, "if the antenna acts as a lightning rod." He'll have little
problem. The purpose of a true lightning rod is to blead off the charge,
defeating a strike, not to attract it. A lightning srtike will blow any
lightning rod system to smithereenes.
When a charged object has a sharp corner or point, the charge tends to
collect there. Because there is more charge at that p[oint it will have a
higher concentration and therefore a higher voltage. It builds to the point
of forming a corona/plasma and will discharge it. That's why the van De
Graf (sp) generators have the round ball on the top. They WANT to build up
the charge and not loose any more than necessary..
I all fairness, I do not know if lightning rod systems work in
practice.They do wear out due to the discharge corona and should be
sharpened periodically. Apparently the points of the typical beam are
not sufficient or they wouldn't get struck, no?

73, Steve K,9.D;C;I


"Mark Keith" wrote in message
om...
Roger Halstead wrote in message
. ..
On 29 Nov 2003 02:35:22 -0800, (Mark Keith) wrote:

(K9SQG) wrote in message
...
That is not a wise idea. If your mast takes a direct hit, or if
there is one
nearby, there is a possibility that some of the energy will go into
the house
via that ground rod. Antenna grounds should always be isolated from
housewiring grounds.


If all grounds are at the same potential, no current can flow between
them.
Not to mention the NEC requires it in the U.S. MK

When you figure the rise time there can easily be several thousand
volts between the base of the antenna mast and the electrical system
ground. IE the voltage could be 50,000 at the tower and not even have
started to rise at the electrical ground.

In my case, those are pretty much the same place. All my grounds tend
to rise in potential at the same time, being they are all tied
together at the base of the mast. Nothing is perfect of course, but
you sure don't want any large potential differences between grounds.

It's not just a simple CD circuit.
I've seen tower strikes where there was such a strong current and fast
rise time, the magnetic field quenched the current flow and the
lightening got off part way down and jumped sideways to something
else.

If I remember right, the original poster was going to mount an antenna
on a roof. That has the potential for even more serious problems if
the antenna acts as a lightning rod. He'd want as few turns or sharp
bends in the ground wire to earth. This is why I much prefer using a
metal mast on the side of the house to support verticals or other high
risk antennas, rather than a mast attached to the roof of the house.
And then hoping a ground wire will safely direct the charge to
earth...It usually will, at least much better than the house itself,
but it's kind of scary if it has turns or bends.
The important part at the house is making sure that everything rises
together so there's no lower resistance path for the charge to take
through the shack or house. At the mast, I always tape all coaxes or
wires to the mast, and run them all the way down to earth to try to
avoid flashing problems. So far in two strikes to the mast, I haven't
noticed any, and I have a breaker box, elevated power lead in, phone
lines, cable lines, all within 5 ft of that mast. MK