Petert,
I bemoan the fact that so many on this newsgroup such as yourself
just do not understand complex circuits and how it relates to
antennas.
We have an abundance of people who can only do the talk as well as
some that can do the walk. As far as antennas and complex circuitry
goes you have shown that you can only do the walk. That will disapoint
the Doctor of Phillosophy as well as the Bum since they now do not
have anybody to follow, tailgate or whatever for their snide remarks
without content. You are quite correct that
having something after your name as it only shows a level of education
that you have recieved and not meant to show what one has achieved.
As for myself it was my future employer that paved the way with money
and government interjection for me and my family to come to the U.S.
If I 'fooled' them then at that time while in the U.K.then I fooled
them until my retirement in the U.S.where again I became a nothing.

You however, feel that not having retired retains a couple of steps
above us that have, which gives you the right to admonish at will with
a spray of He, He ,He's and a "What" or "****' thrown in for good
measure probably to relieve your own similar tensions obtained by you
from your collegues at work !

Art
By the way I have this picture of you in my mind that shows you short
in height
but certainly not retund. Am I close?
As for lifes track record time is short and the grim reaper does not
give advance notice so get moving.

"Peter O. Brackett" wrote in message link.net...
Art:

My friend you have me confused with someone else!

I have never once commented or posted anything about *your* antenna
inventions or technical claims. Nor do I intend to until you stop whining!

What I have commented on is your many posts which contain
complaints laments and cries for pity and understanding because of your
claimed lack of knowledge, expertise, or whatever.

Your suppositions that others do not give your *inventions* credit
simply because you lack such personal qualifications is plain stupidity.

Art, that's why I call you "cry baby" and "whiner".

If your technical inventions/claims/whatever... are great then they will
stand
on their own merits and need no support by claims of the insufficient
qualifications of their inventor!

I have noted one here who gives a damn what technical credentials you,
or any other poster to the NG, hold! Your qualifications are irrelevant to
the subject.

[Unless of course you happen to hold a Ph.D. from Cornell
in Astrophysics, only then apparently can you claim that your
graduaton diploma makes your inventions unique and special!
[Heh, heh... That last sentence was not meant to denigrate
that fine University, only one of it's claimed graduates.]

Art, just stop your whining and let the world get on with its
valid and invalid critiques of your work!

Hey... Oliver Heaviside, never accepted his nomination to the Royal Society,
by degreed grandees and he never completed grade school, or studied anything
formally beyond age 16, yet Oliver stood with the greatest scientists,
mathematicians,
engineers and natural philosphers of his time simply be "doing" things that
they couldn't.

Education, academic degrees, and technical training mean nothing.

Art my friend, it's your "track record, it's what you accomplish in life
or do that is important, not what examinations you have passed!

Get real you big cry baby, let what you have done or accomplished stand on
it's
own merits and see if it survives and what others think of it, and just stop
all of your
damned whining!

If it doesn't survive the critiques of the world then it isn't worth a damn
anyway.

No one pays attention to whiners!

I for one simply don't care to waste valuable time investigating any
technical advances
or claims put forward and supported by a whiner and whining.

Whining about inferiority and lack of academic qualifications is a sure sign
that the
prosyletizer probably has nothing worth while to contribute.

Art, put your ideas and inventions out there and let others have at it, if
your ideas
and accomplishments are worthy they will stand on their on, if not they
wont!

But whining about inferior technical qualifications...? What does that
accomplish?

Whining... Man, give it up!

Instead, spend your bandwidth on clear concise explanations of your the
benefits
and originality of your technical contributions.

Nuff said?

--
Peter K1PO
Indialantic By-the-Sea, FL.



"Art Unwin KB9MZ" wrote in message
m...
"Peter O. Brackett" wrote in message
link.net...
Mac:

[snip]
"J. McLaughlin" wrote in message
...
Dear Peter:
I would have sent this to you privately, but you do not provide a
valid E-mail address.
[snip]

The Internet "worms" nearly *killed* my computer communications
capability
this past year, no thanks to the younger generation of unethical
"hackers"
and
brought to everyone courtesy of the "world's richest man", and so these
days...

If you want to email me direct you must send via the arrl dot net relay.

:-)

[snip]
Well done on presenting the sequence of understanding and
emphasizing the role of mathematics.
[snip]

Thanks!

As you no doubt appreciate, it pays to know a little history only to
avoid repeating it.

There is very little ambiguity equivocationn or cause for argument when
using the universal albeit sometimes cryptic language of mathematics.

The elementary mathematical skills which Art often eschews are neither
difficult nor expensive to acquire and definitely not difficult to carry
around.

Such skills do however require some little dedication to study...

just as the ham radio license *used to* require. :-)

Art's "cry baby" attitude about his lack of such skills does nothing to
help
either himself or the other NG participants.

"Mathematics - just do it" would be a good motto for Art to follow
perhaps
replacing his continual complaints regarding his lack of ability and
qualifications.
Art's "cry baby" comments only appear boorish and become very tiresome
to
NG participants.

Well Peter now you are being stupid and making up stories.
Maybe I can expect the same tactics that you put on Chip when he made
claims on antennas which you didn't understand
But I am ready. You stated lack of skills on my part well I have
enough of those skills that you are talking about. I made the claim of
an antenna that uses all those skills and you stated a good engineer
knows when to discard his model. Well Peter, if you were an engineer
you would not discard it until you made a working model and compared
it to theory ( using all those mathematical skills that you bandy
about or as I say talking the talk). I also gave you the theoretical
background of the antenna and invited you to point out the fallacies
, mathematical ofcourse, and all you still do is 'talk the talk' with
no show.
Well Peter, if that the attitude you need to take me on with then be
my guest,
even with the likes of the Doctor and the Bum holding your coat or
throwing snide remarks is not enough to push me off the newsgroup like
you did with Chip.
So go ahead and be my guest and flaunt your mathematical skills to
show how I and my antenna is a fake and my skills are lacking. I would
love it for you to make a stand on that subject so everybody can see
who you are and what you are
when forced to 'walk the walk'. If I haven't the qualifications in
any subject I carefully state so especially when talking on this
newsgroup,
I am no way interested in infering that I am an expert where I am not,
there are enough doing that already, but with respect to my antenna
work I stand by it. I am willing to walk the walk but you Peter
obviously feel more comfortable in just talking or making acrid
remarks.

So I am staying here Peter, and you can have at it and show your true
colours
Can I now expect for you to sue me now since you are well practiced at
that?

Art Unwin..... XG



[snip]
In "Hamerica" some real Engineers are P.E.s. It is not just for
Canadians.
[snip]

Well Mac as you well know, MI is not far from Canada sharing both
a riverside a lakeside and common weather. What's your point?

:-)

[snip]
73 Mac N8TT
--
J. Mc Laughlin - Michigan USA
[snip]

Speaking of Michigan, my wife and I attended a party at our next door
neighbour's home here last week. MI snowbirds, Jo and Ivan had just
arrived here in FL from MI to stay over the season here in their winter
home on our "tropical island".

Me? Even though an ex-Canadian, I like it here on the island all year
long.

Mac. Take care and enjoy the Holiday Season up North.

Art:

[snip]
By the way I have this picture of you in my mind that shows you short
in height but certainly not retund. Am I close?
[snip]

Heh, heh... yse. You really wanna know my physical description!

What's with you?

Next you'll be whining that a short but not rotund man is being critical of
your inventions simply because you are tall and rotund!

Hey! Just in case it matters and FYI...

I'm 5' 8", 165 pounds, blood pressure 115/70, I run 7 minute
miles daily, current age 62, born just after Pearl Harbour,
and my dear wife Mary still thinks I'm a "hunk" after 40 years
of marriage!

What?

Currently I run a "thriving" personal consulting business from my home
office - doing analog and RF design for companies that no longer seem
to be able to find good analog and RF designers among the current
generation of Engineers - and so keep coming back to us "old farts"
for new designs!

What?

--
Peter K1PO
Indialantic By-the-Sea, FL.

Heh, heh... yse. You really wanna know my physical description!

What's with you?



Could it be that he is long lost brother of Chipster?
There is some silimarity :-)
Pa-tents, inquiring mnid, vining, yada, yada


fat BUm but back on Atkins

Yuri:

[snip]
fat BUm but back on Atkins
[snip]

I follow the "Atkin's way to live" myself and have reversed what was a long
term
and seemingly inevetible weight increase, by following Atkins plan. I lost
about
40 pounds over a year's time back about five years ago and have been
following
Atkins daily since.

I feel great on low carb intake, drink plenty of red and white wine,
and despite what several, such as my dear wife, told me, my lipids are
under control and what's important to me, I never feel deprived.

Atkins works for me...

Pass the steak, ham and turkey but... hold the sweet potato... :-)

Happy Holidays

--
Peter K1PO

So you work alone. That explains a lot, your superior attitude and
penchant for labeling people such as those who are in your profession
who don,t have it
fits in quite well with your lack of people skills. Actually I am
surprised that you have a wife knowing how vindictive you are as shown
with your outrageous treatment of Chip Cohen. In fact I see a great
similarity with the so called shoot out with Tom by the Bum where it
showed complete arrogance with respect to people who have earned the
right of respect because of their contributions.
Look at E ham and read that horrible discourse even tho it does not
match
that of you and Chip.I see your company has arrived ( the bum) to give
you support from the rear by throwing darts which now complets the
trio.
Art




"Peter O. Brackett" wrote in message link.net...
Art:

[snip]
By the way I have this picture of you in my mind that shows you short
in height but certainly not retund. Am I close?
[snip]

Heh, heh... yse. You really wanna know my physical description!

What's with you?

Next you'll be whining that a short but not rotund man is being critical of
your inventions simply because you are tall and rotund!

Hey! Just in case it matters and FYI...

I'm 5' 8", 165 pounds, blood pressure 115/70, I run 7 minute
miles daily, current age 62, born just after Pearl Harbour,
and my dear wife Mary still thinks I'm a "hunk" after 40 years
of marriage!

What?

Currently I run a "thriving" personal consulting business from my home
office - doing analog and RF design for companies that no longer seem
to be able to find good analog and RF designers among the current
generation of Engineers - and so keep coming back to us "old farts"
for new designs!

What?

Art:

[snip]
"Art Unwin KB9MZ" wrote in message
So you work alone.
[snip]

No! Heh, heh... can't be a consultant without customers!

One must be people oriented to be successful in business.

People do business with people!

[snip]
Actually I am
surprised that you have a wife
[snip]

Now that's a cruel and vindictive thing to say. You don't even know
me or my wife.

In my humble opinion Mary is the world's most wonderful woman,
a beauty, great dancer and socializer, a great life partner, mother, and
absolute saint to have put up with me for forty years.

Let me share some of her pithy comments with you so that you can see
what she is made of... :-)

She has often said, "don't bring any more of those nerdy ham radio friends
of yours around here all they can talk about is their rigs!". Or another
great
comment, "I'll never drive your car, with all those antennas on it, I don't
want
anyone to think I'm married to a nerd!

Kinda neat isn't she?

[snip]
knowing how vindictive you are as shown
with your outrageous treatment of Chip Cohen.
[snip]

Heh, heh... *My* outrageous treatment of dear sainted Chip?

Be fair Art.

What about his vindictive treatment of me?

He initiated his discourse with unsolicited personal attacks
on me for nothing more innocous than attempting to engage him
in scientific discourse! What?

Hey Art, go back and re-read the postings... Chip launched unwarranted
ad hominem attacks upon my person [not on my questions, statements or
discussions] the very first time he encountered me on this NG. All I had
done was to ask Dr. Cohen for a layman's explanation of what he was trying
to accomplish with fractal antennas. A fair question, no?

My first encounter with Chip on the NG went something like, "Chip: What
are the advantages of fractal antennas over other types". His response?
"Who are you to question me? -- N. Cohen, Ph.D."

For some unknown reason Chip seemed to take questions as a threat
rather than as an opportunity to learn or prosyletize.

Hmmm... it seems to me that you might also have such a "defensive" response
to technical questions as well but with a somewhat different defence
mechanism.

Art, the scientific method is fun, why can't you just be open to technical
questions and criticism and learn from it if you can. What exactly are
you afraid of when people question your ideas?

Your defensive attitude towards the questioning of your peers and
colleagues and subsequent pleas for pity and relief from further questions
because of your professed technical handicaps is not helping your cause.

Instead of hiding from questions and seeking solace in statements of
incompentence, just "have at it"!

"If you want to run with the big dogs you can't sit on the porch!"

Art... technical discourse is just that... technical *discourse*. A
technical
give and take of questions and answers intended to inform, educate and test
the validity of new ideas. It's the basis of the "scientific method".

Never take technical questioning personally! Such questions are not aimed
at your person or behaviour rather they are aimed at your ideas. Take
questions
as an opportunity to hone and improve your ideas.

Handle questions, respond to them, interact. Just do it!

Art you will do your cause more help if you abandon your defensive attitude
and just just stand up and trade information or field technical questions
from your
peers and colleagues, pleas for pity and claims of incompetence lead
nowhere!

Art if you dealt with technical questions here on the NG directly, why then
you will learn from the more knowledgeable and help to teach the less
knowledgeable and further improve or popularize your own inventions.

It's a win-win situation. Don't be a cry baby!

Life is about choices, don't choose to make yourself the worst enemy
or your own ideas!

--
Peter K1PO

So you work alone.

Oh oh, I better shutup, or I get "evaluated" and "analyzed" :-)

Chipster must have designated Art as his ambassador here.

I wonder if there is a name for this -itis (artritis? chipritis?)


Yuri da BUmmer

Peter, the ham community is full of people who know it all each
with their own followers that tailgate and throw barbs.
When Chip came up with Fractals he shared it on this newsgroup
and imediately came under attack, before him it was a vendor
who sold a two element beam, I forget who came before that.
The important thing was that the group atacked for what they
thought was wrong with the ideas and not the good that came
with those experiments. It is natural for somebody who comes
to this group and shares his work would get upset with the
groups aproach as well as the tailgaters who join in with all
the snide comments. I am not surprised that Chip lost his cool
in the light of your and others attacks and others in the
group such as the bum
I also did many years of work on antennas and 'silly me' wanted
to share it with everybody, but ofcourse the community resists the
new.
Two of those ideas I patented as a way of putting out information
instead of persuing a publisher, what did I get from an actual antenna
group,
this one ? Nothing but resistance to new ideas and a verbal hounding
which still goes on from the likes of the bum and the Doctor, so I let
the matter rest. And you talk of scientific correctness in debate,
fine words
of a theoretical nature in this group.

Again after a couple of years I proferred my thoughts on another new
design
which not only was multiband in nature but also goes down to the 160
metre band. For people that were interested in antennas and antenna
design you would think that all would be clamouring for information.
Quite the opposite again....all is known, doesn't that idiot know
that?
So I let it go for a while and then drop morsels of info, 7 Khz
bandwidth,
lossless feed system, Swr stays constant as one turns the radio
frequency dial,
more jibes since 'all is known' about antennas.
Then I drop the fact that it is rotatable but I can do nothing about
what lack of height does to the patterns, but at least I removed the
ground losses from the picture. More mirth especially from tailgaters.
And you talk of professionalism in debate and if who ask for it then
you are asking for pity ? You have to be nuts ! The group postings are
for arguments
or finding a pecking order, not for scietific analysis. Look at bums
comments about Tom one of the most knoweledgeable people in the field
and bum comes along and states that Tom's page is full of errors. Can
you imagine that coming from the likes of the bum and why not, because
it is often the pattern of some members of this group including the
antisemetic jabs made at Chip.
And you Peter, are part of this group that throw barbs to hurt people
and you call me a 'cry baby' for standing up to the likes of you when
the barbs are thrown at me. Well Peter, I respond in kind, since you
show lack of professionalism then so can I, you throw it at me and I
with throw some back.
If interest moves away from anything new then so be it but I am not
embarassed
because of those such as yourself that prejudge everything, throw
barbs
and then throw insults that injure by saying I should throw my antenna
model away, regardles if it workes in practice, has solid mathematical
and scientific background and confirmed also no less by pro computor
program with an overload
calculation points to ensure accuracy. And then you say I should do
this or that, probably to pursue the likes of money, go for it etc
even tho my interests do not lie in that direction. My life as an
engineer was to pursue knoweledge and even tho retired I still persue
same, money is nice but it is not everything if you have enough.
No Peter you make me sick with your actions of prejudgement and
heckling so one cannot be heard. Well Peter it is ham radio's loss
because I and others who want to share and give back to the hobby are
unable to do so because of the
attitude of so called 'know it alls'.
To those who are new to this group I am sorry you are around to see
the worst part of this newsgroup especially when there are so many
well intentioned people, so many people with knoweledge, and then we
get a few people like those who feel they have ownership to a
frequency and talk like they just had more than a few beers and
believe their utterances are interlectual. The hobby has had such
people for a long time, hopefully you will hang around and stay with
the hobby so these people don't win and the hobby dies

Art Unwin KB9MZ....XG



"Peter O. Brackett" wrote in message link.net...
Art:

[snip]
"Art Unwin KB9MZ" wrote in message
So you work alone.
[snip]

No! Heh, heh... can't be a consultant without customers!

One must be people oriented to be successful in business.

People do business with people!

[snip]
Actually I am
surprised that you have a wife
[snip]

Now that's a cruel and vindictive thing to say. You don't even know
me or my wife.

In my humble opinion Mary is the world's most wonderful woman,
a beauty, great dancer and socializer, a great life partner, mother, and
absolute saint to have put up with me for forty years.

Let me share some of her pithy comments with you so that you can see
what she is made of... :-)

She has often said, "don't bring any more of those nerdy ham radio friends
of yours around here all they can talk about is their rigs!". Or another
great
comment, "I'll never drive your car, with all those antennas on it, I don't
want
anyone to think I'm married to a nerd!

Kinda neat isn't she?

[snip]
knowing how vindictive you are as shown
with your outrageous treatment of Chip Cohen.
[snip]

Heh, heh... *My* outrageous treatment of dear sainted Chip?

Be fair Art.

What about his vindictive treatment of me?

He initiated his discourse with unsolicited personal attacks
on me for nothing more innocous than attempting to engage him
in scientific discourse! What?

Hey Art, go back and re-read the postings... Chip launched unwarranted
ad hominem attacks upon my person [not on my questions, statements or
discussions] the very first time he encountered me on this NG. All I had
done was to ask Dr. Cohen for a layman's explanation of what he was trying
to accomplish with fractal antennas. A fair question, no?

My first encounter with Chip on the NG went something like, "Chip: What
are the advantages of fractal antennas over other types". His response?
"Who are you to question me? -- N. Cohen, Ph.D."

For some unknown reason Chip seemed to take questions as a threat
rather than as an opportunity to learn or prosyletize.

Hmmm... it seems to me that you might also have such a "defensive" response
to technical questions as well but with a somewhat different defence
mechanism.

Art, the scientific method is fun, why can't you just be open to technical
questions and criticism and learn from it if you can. What exactly are
you afraid of when people question your ideas?

Your defensive attitude towards the questioning of your peers and
colleagues and subsequent pleas for pity and relief from further questions
because of your professed technical handicaps is not helping your cause.

Instead of hiding from questions and seeking solace in statements of
incompentence, just "have at it"!

"If you want to run with the big dogs you can't sit on the porch!"

Art... technical discourse is just that... technical *discourse*. A
technical
give and take of questions and answers intended to inform, educate and test
the validity of new ideas. It's the basis of the "scientific method".

Never take technical questioning personally! Such questions are not aimed
at your person or behaviour rather they are aimed at your ideas. Take
questions
as an opportunity to hone and improve your ideas.

Handle questions, respond to them, interact. Just do it!

Art you will do your cause more help if you abandon your defensive attitude
and just just stand up and trade information or field technical questions
from your
peers and colleagues, pleas for pity and claims of incompetence lead
nowhere!

Art if you dealt with technical questions here on the NG directly, why then
you will learn from the more knowledgeable and help to teach the less
knowledgeable and further improve or popularize your own inventions.

It's a win-win situation. Don't be a cry baby!

Life is about choices, don't choose to make yourself the worst enemy
or your own ideas!

Whining Art, defender of wackos, cries:

Look at bums
comments about Tom one of the most knoweledgeable people in the field
and bum comes along and states that Tom's page is full of errors.

The most "knoweledgeable people" attacked and ridiculed my posting (truth,
reality) about the current in the antenna loading coils. I didn't take it
laying down and defended the truth and reality. My argument was supported by
others on this NG who contributed to factual discussion, as it should be. You
should be "crying for me Argentina" and not for that technical impostor. Based
on at least five times past experience, Tom ridicules others if they do not
sing his wrong gospel. If he is proven to be wrong, then he goes QRT (that is
quiet) and later emerges as a "guru" proclaiming new, corrected gospel. Proof
is on the pages of reflectors in the past.
In your glorious career, you should have learned difference between someone
pointing out "more errors" and "full of errors." Be careful what you accusing
someone of.
Try to get this: if you have, know something and want opinions from "this
group" then you present the problem, facts and stand your ground. You either
find out that you are either right (and convince, educate others) or you were
wrong (and learned something).
If you try to convince me (as per your patent) that reflector is a director, I
will not swallow it.
If Tom and his cult followers want to believe that loading coil has the same
current at both ends, more power to them, they can worship pages of his
"gospel" and feel good about being wrong. I could care less and wouldn't cry
that they do not "worship" me. I have a life outside of radio (itsa hobby/sport
to me), I try to help others, but I could care less about "recognition" from
those who don't get it.
You parading as the "suffering brother" of Chipster, says it all.

As they say, if you can't take the heat, stay out of the kitchen.

Enough of psychoanalysis, back to the antennas.

Yuri, da radio k3BU/m
who can't fix stupid

Well there you have it Peter a reflection of the types of
people that follow you It seems that like minds attract
like people. You should be very happy with the company of the Doctor
and the bum their technical support, but remember the next time you
want to get on somebody's back you dom't always get a free ride.
Have a nice Xmas Hunk with that wonderful accomodating wife
you obviously have.
I will now retreat to the more academic side of things
with respect to antennas with the group where I can learn
which I find more interesting than personal derogatory
remarks pointed at individuals
Art

oSaddam (Yuri Blanarovich) wrote in message ...
Whining Art, defender of wackos, cries:

Look at bums
comments about Tom one of the most knoweledgeable people in the field
and bum comes along and states that Tom's page is full of errors.

The most "knoweledgeable people" attacked and ridiculed my posting (truth,
reality) about the current in the antenna loading coils. I didn't take it
laying down and defended the truth and reality. My argument was supported by
others on this NG who contributed to factual discussion, as it should be. You
should be "crying for me Argentina" and not for that technical impostor. Based
on at least five times past experience, Tom ridicules others if they do not
sing his wrong gospel. If he is proven to be wrong, then he goes QRT (that is
quiet) and later emerges as a "guru" proclaiming new, corrected gospel. Proof
is on the pages of reflectors in the past.
In your glorious career, you should have learned difference between someone
pointing out "more errors" and "full of errors." Be careful what you accusing
someone of.
Try to get this: if you have, know something and want opinions from "this
group" then you present the problem, facts and stand your ground. You either
find out that you are either right (and convince, educate others) or you were
wrong (and learned something).
If you try to convince me (as per your patent) that reflector is a director, I
will not swallow it.
If Tom and his cult followers want to believe that loading coil has the same
current at both ends, more power to them, they can worship pages of his
"gospel" and feel good about being wrong. I could care less and wouldn't cry
that they do not "worship" me. I have a life outside of radio (itsa hobby/sport
to me), I try to help others, but I could care less about "recognition" from
those who don't get it.
You parading as the "suffering brother" of Chipster, says it all.

As they say, if you can't take the heat, stay out of the kitchen.

Enough of psychoanalysis, back to the antennas.

Yuri, da radio k3BU/m
who can't fix stupid