Cecil Moore wrote:
John Popelish wrote:

If we assume the coil is an idealized lumped inductance with no stray
capacitance at all (not a real inductor) then it would have the same
instantaneous current at each end and that current would be zero,
since it has zero size. In other words it would fit entirely in the
point that holds the node.


And such a coil is impossible in the real world so why even mention it?

Because it is the limiting case of the possible. Understanding why it
is the limit interests me.

I want to hear about real world one foot long, 100 uH coils.

Then you have changed your mind from a few days ago.
No problem for me.

Real inductors with stray capacitance and imperfect magnetic coupling
for all parts of its internal current path, would have a phase shift
in the current at opposite ends, so they would have current at their
ends that was 180 degrees out of phase, if they were centered on the
node points.


Yes, now please tell that to W8JI and W7EL. They are not listening
to me.

I just did. I hope you realize that anyone is perfectly free to
ignore anything posted to this or any other newsgroup, and long as it
pleases them. If you are going to have trouble sleeping because you
can't get complete agreement from everyone who you have ever seen post
to this group, your problems are a lot bigger than coils and waves.

I am not arguing for the validity of that measurement. Argue about it
with someone who is.

That's my entire argument at the moment and W7EL is avoiding that
argument like a plague.

That is their prerogative. Deal with it. I am putting considerable
effort to understand the physics of the situation and to share my
thoughts with you. If this is no interest to you, I will discuss this
interesting topic with someone else.

In case you don't realize, there is more than one person out here,
responding to you.

Please forgive me for not recognizing which of the ten individual
junk yard dog "experts" is biting my ankles at any particular time. :-)

I am insulted that you include me in that derogatory characterization.
I have been polite, patient and respectful with you in this
discussion.

You remind me of a type of insanity where the sufferer thinks that
everything he is experiencing an organized illusion by a single
offending intelligence (you against the Matrix) bent on forcing him to
think that a lie is the truth, regardless of who or what he deals
with. Everyone he meets, every apparently random happenstance, the
actions of his dog and the weather, generally, are all a conspiracy to
force him to think that black is white, and he isn't going to fall for
it.

IMHO, hardly anyone here on r.r.a.a is interested in technical facts.
Most "experts" think they already know everything, wouldn't recognize
a differing concept if it bit them in the arse, and are more dedicated
to preserving the pecking order than anything else. 'Course, I am only
human and could, therefore, unlike the omniscient experts, be wrong
about that.

And that is exactly why I have refrained from personal attacks (though
I have indulged in a few observations as above, because I think
considering them might open your eyes to how you appear to others, and
how that interferes with your arguments. So even those observations
were not made in an attempt to win an argument with you, but to assist
you in thinking more clearly.

For the most part, I have tried to talk about physics, not pecking
order or personalities. But you keep cutting me off, saying you are
not interested in physics, but in winning a debate with a few people,
regardless of who you have to insult to win.

At this point, my mental model of how your mind works is just about as
interesting to me as my mental model of how EM waves work. The
universe is full of strange and fascinating processes. But if you get
back to physics, I will soon lose interest in your mind.