Tom Donaly wrote:
There is nothing in the natural world
that can double itself and go two opposite directions at the same
time.

Seems your ignorance also extends to entangled particles?

In order to do so it would have to violate the principle of
the conservaton of charge.

This is simply one more example of the seduction of other-
wise intelligent people by the lumped-circuit model's
unproven presuppositions.

You are confusing charge with EM wave energy. If two EM light
waves traveling in opposite directions can cause a standing
wave in empty space, then so can two RF waves traveling in
opposite directions in space or around a wire. There is no
requirement for current at all. Current is a left over
artifact from the DC model. In fact, it can be proven
that virtually all of the energy (power) exists solely in
the two EM waves surrounding the wire and virtually none in
the conductor. All that is required for standing waves is
E-fields and H-fields traveling in opposite directions WHETHER
A WIRE EXISTS OR NOT.

If everyone were using Maxwell's equations instead of flawed
simplified models, none of this confusion would exist. All
of the energy is in the waves and none in the current or
voltage. After all, E x H is the *total power* in a wave.
There is no extra energy left over to support voltage and
current.
--
73, Cecil http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp

Cecil,

Are you practicing your stand-up comedy routine? You are in rare form today.

Why didn't you set us straight about 3000 messages ago? If only we knew
that RF current was a mere artifact we could have shortened this thread
to one message.

73,
Gene
W4SZ

Cecil Moore wrote:

You are confusing charge with EM wave energy. If two EM light
waves traveling in opposite directions can cause a standing
wave in empty space, then so can two RF waves traveling in
opposite directions in space or around a wire. There is no
requirement for current at all. Current is a left over
artifact from the DC model. In fact, it can be proven
that virtually all of the energy (power) exists solely in
the two EM waves surrounding the wire and virtually none in
the conductor. All that is required for standing waves is
E-fields and H-fields traveling in opposite directions WHETHER
A WIRE EXISTS OR NOT.

If everyone were using Maxwell's equations instead of flawed
simplified models, none of this confusion would exist. All
of the energy is in the waves and none in the current or
voltage. After all, E x H is the *total power* in a wave.
There is no extra energy left over to support voltage and
current.

Gene Fuller wrote:
Why didn't you set us straight about 3000 messages ago? If only we knew
that RF current was a mere artifact we could have shortened this thread
to one message.

Well Gene, that fact didn't occur to me 3000 messages ago so I
recently corrected my mistaken concepts. What do you do when you
discover a mistaken concept of your own? (rhetorical question)

Truth is, I'm still learning. How about you?
--
73, Cecil http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp

Cecil Moore wrote:

Tom Donaly wrote:

There is nothing in the natural world
that can double itself and go two opposite directions at the same
time.


Seems your ignorance also extends to entangled particles?

In order to do so it would have to violate the principle of
the conservaton of charge.


This is simply one more example of the seduction of other-
wise intelligent people by the lumped-circuit model's
unproven presuppositions.

You are confusing charge with EM wave energy. If two EM light
waves traveling in opposite directions can cause a standing
wave in empty space, then so can two RF waves traveling in
opposite directions in space or around a wire. There is no
requirement for current at all. Current is a left over
artifact from the DC model. In fact, it can be proven
that virtually all of the energy (power) exists solely in
the two EM waves surrounding the wire and virtually none in
the conductor. All that is required for standing waves is
E-fields and H-fields traveling in opposite directions WHETHER
A WIRE EXISTS OR NOT.

If everyone were using Maxwell's equations instead of flawed
simplified models, none of this confusion would exist. All
of the energy is in the waves and none in the current or
voltage. After all, E x H is the *total power* in a wave.
There is no extra energy left over to support voltage and
current.

Cecil, if you knew what you were talking about you might be dangerous.
73,
Tom Donaly, KA6RUH