Sooo, in shielded loop the shield is the antenna according to W8JI and
worshippers. But you take the shield (W8JI antenna) away, now the wires are
antenna, some say don't need no stinkin' shield and "antenna" to work as an
antenna.

I don't know what a W8JI antenna is, except for those I've heard on
160m... :/
But I do know that I've tested various versions of both shielded and
unshielded
loops, and have never been able to tell a lick of difference as far as
close local
noise pickup. I spent a whole week testing that very thing. It's not
something I just
made up, or picked up from W8JI.

Amazing how selective in reading and digestion of postings some people are.
They tend to ignore the reality and description of it, they pick on
selective "proof" of what they were taught and figered out.

Only my test results were used to come up with my conclusion. So I
guess
I taught myself. I've never built a shielded loop yet that was any
"quieter" to
local noise than any of my good unshielded loops. But my unshielded
loops
are well balanced. Were yours?

So shield works as a electrostatic shield, if you guys like it or not, or
refuse to admit.

I refuse to admit it, if I can't prove it. And I haven't been able to
prove it yet.
One thing...How in the heck is a solid shield going to filter one
source of RF,
and ignore another. In reality, it will shield *all* RF, unless I am
missing
something here. So the outer shield *must* be the antenna, unless the
sky is
now green. No RF is going to prevail past the outer skin depth of the
solid
shield. None. Nada...

Sooo, antenna works without shield (not just my assertion), but when you
insert it in the shield then shield becomes W8JI antenna.

It does? I'm sure if this is the case, it probably tunes 160m.... :/

So his shield,
untuned becomes antenna, but my tuned and tunable inside the shield antenna
is not the antenna? Makes as much sense as "there is equal current along the
loading coil doesn't matter what", riiiiight?

If you say so....

Let's stick to some reality in antennas.

Thats all I do. I've made a load of loops. I have a diamond loop 44
inches
per side right next to me. Almost is as tall as the ceiling... Heck, I
even
have tried using shielded loops as the coupling loop to unshielded
loops.
Works pretty well to maintain balance, but mine work just as well with
just
a simple unshielded coupling loop. Probably cuz my loops are very
symmetrical
and balanced naturally. The coax feedline itself is the only real issue
in my case,
and even it's not really very critical. I never saw any indication
that using a
shielded coupling loop made the loop quieter than not using one. Not
once.
Myself, I don't really like small loops for receiving on 160m. They are
good for
cutting the noise when working loud locals, but in my experience they
are
pretty ho-hum when receiving weak dx. For 160m, I would use the biggest
loop
I could manage. Probably outside to have enough room...
My loops are mainly for MW BC receiving, although the one next to me
tunes
500-2300 kc in two stages, by switching cap gangs. I can go LW if I
tack on
more fixed caps. The real value of small loops are not the "quiet", or
the s/n
or whatever. It's the nulls... But nulls have much more value in the BC
band,
than they do on 160m unless maybe you have a noise source in the area
you wanna null out. Thats how a loop reduces noise. Using the nulls...
:/
I do have to agree with Tom. I think the "shielded loop" theory many
hams
adhere to is just another batch of wive tailery.. Along with grounds to
cure
antenna/feedline problems, sticking coax ends in bottles hoping to
thwart
lightning, etc... And I've never once talked to Tom about small loops.
It's all my idea to shun this "shield=quiet" theory, not W8JI's.
MK