"Tom Donaly" wrote in message
om...
Dave wrote:
Jim Kelley wrote:



Tom Donaly wrote:


Where's the experimental evidence, Cecil?



Ever heard of Ben Franklin? :-)

73, ac6xg


Every winter here in New England we run numerous experiments, every time
I walk across the living room and touch a metal door knob.

The US military has an ESD specification of 25 KV @ 5 KOhms from a
healthy capacitor as a simulator.

Electro static discharge on antennas has been around for years. It is
real!

Dry Climate and Wind are all that's needed. Now, is the Physics at the
air molecule level [Oxygen, Nitrogen, etc.], ionized Oxygen or Nitrogen
atoms, charged dust particle level [that just begs the issue ... how did
the dust get charged?], Van De Graff level, etc.? Who knows?

But, the antenna ESD is a very REAL effect. You can hypothesize the
cause all day. To solve the problem at the system level, I added an ESD
bleed into my antenna switches.

I'm going to filter this thread to the circular file.


No one said ESD didn't exist. But you hit the nail on the head so far
as wind caused ESD, "Who knows?" I don't, and neither does Cecil,
although he thinks he does.
73,
Tom Donaly, KA6RUH

i thought it came from distant thunderstorms?

and if wind blows an ELF system around, it does get noisier. i believe
that's due to physical movement of the antenna system.

Gravity

gravity wrote:

"Tom Donaly" wrote in message
om...

Dave wrote:

Jim Kelley wrote:



Tom Donaly wrote:



Where's the experimental evidence, Cecil?



Ever heard of Ben Franklin? :-)

73, ac6xg


Every winter here in New England we run numerous experiments, every time
I walk across the living room and touch a metal door knob.

The US military has an ESD specification of 25 KV @ 5 KOhms from a
healthy capacitor as a simulator.

Electro static discharge on antennas has been around for years. It is

real!

Dry Climate and Wind are all that's needed. Now, is the Physics at the
air molecule level [Oxygen, Nitrogen, etc.], ionized Oxygen or Nitrogen
atoms, charged dust particle level [that just begs the issue ... how did
the dust get charged?], Van De Graff level, etc.? Who knows?

But, the antenna ESD is a very REAL effect. You can hypothesize the
cause all day. To solve the problem at the system level, I added an ESD
bleed into my antenna switches.

I'm going to filter this thread to the circular file.


No one said ESD didn't exist. But you hit the nail on the head so far
as wind caused ESD, "Who knows?" I don't, and neither does Cecil,
although he thinks he does.
73,
Tom Donaly, KA6RUH


i thought it came from distant thunderstorms?

and if wind blows an ELF system around, it does get noisier. i believe
that's due to physical movement of the antenna system.

Gravity



You could be right, who knows? Certainly not the people who
are afraid to experiment.
73,
Tom Donaly, KA6RUH

Tom Donaly wrote:
You could be right, who knows? Certainly not the people who
are afraid to experiment.

Why re-invent the wheel when all you have to do is read
this web page from the Electrostatic Discharge Association
to know what is old hat to most competent engineers?

http://www.esda.org/basics/part1.cfm
--
73, Cecil http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp

Tom Donaly wrote:
gravity wrote:

"Tom Donaly" wrote in message
om...

Dave wrote:

Jim Kelley wrote:



Tom Donaly wrote:



Where's the experimental evidence, Cecil?




Ever heard of Ben Franklin? :-)

73, ac6xg


Every winter here in New England we run numerous experiments, every
time
I walk across the living room and touch a metal door knob.

The US military has an ESD specification of 25 KV @ 5 KOhms from a
healthy capacitor as a simulator.

Electro static discharge on antennas has been around for years. It is


real!

Dry Climate and Wind are all that's needed. Now, is the Physics at the
air molecule level [Oxygen, Nitrogen, etc.], ionized Oxygen or Nitrogen
atoms, charged dust particle level [that just begs the issue ... how
did
the dust get charged?], Van De Graff level, etc.? Who knows?

But, the antenna ESD is a very REAL effect. You can hypothesize the
cause all day. To solve the problem at the system level, I added an ESD
bleed into my antenna switches.

I'm going to filter this thread to the circular file.


No one said ESD didn't exist. But you hit the nail on the head so far
as wind caused ESD, "Who knows?" I don't, and neither does Cecil,
although he thinks he does.
73,
Tom Donaly, KA6RUH



i thought it came from distant thunderstorms?

and if wind blows an ELF system around, it does get noisier. i believe
that's due to physical movement of the antenna system.

Gravity



You could be right, who knows? Certainly not the people who
are afraid to experiment.


Just as a point of info Tom. Do you perform experiments to prove or
disprove matters to your satisfaction on everything before accepting it?
That takes a very special person to be ultimately skeptical.

Your posts would indicate that... or maybe that you just enjoy busting
on Cecil. 8^)

- 73 de Mike KB3EIA -

Mike Coslo wrote:
Tom Donaly wrote:

gravity wrote:

"Tom Donaly" wrote in message
om...

Dave wrote:

Jim Kelley wrote:



Tom Donaly wrote:



Where's the experimental evidence, Cecil?





Ever heard of Ben Franklin? :-)

73, ac6xg


Every winter here in New England we run numerous experiments, every
time
I walk across the living room and touch a metal door knob.

The US military has an ESD specification of 25 KV @ 5 KOhms from a
healthy capacitor as a simulator.

Electro static discharge on antennas has been around for years. It is



real!

Dry Climate and Wind are all that's needed. Now, is the Physics at the
air molecule level [Oxygen, Nitrogen, etc.], ionized Oxygen or
Nitrogen
atoms, charged dust particle level [that just begs the issue ...
how did
the dust get charged?], Van De Graff level, etc.? Who knows?

But, the antenna ESD is a very REAL effect. You can hypothesize the
cause all day. To solve the problem at the system level, I added an
ESD
bleed into my antenna switches.

I'm going to filter this thread to the circular file.


No one said ESD didn't exist. But you hit the nail on the head so far
as wind caused ESD, "Who knows?" I don't, and neither does Cecil,
although he thinks he does.
73,
Tom Donaly, KA6RUH




i thought it came from distant thunderstorms?

and if wind blows an ELF system around, it does get noisier. i believe
that's due to physical movement of the antenna system.

Gravity



You could be right, who knows? Certainly not the people who
are afraid to experiment.



Just as a point of info Tom. Do you perform experiments to prove or
disprove matters to your satisfaction on everything before accepting it?
That takes a very special person to be ultimately skeptical.

Your posts would indicate that... or maybe that you just enjoy
busting on Cecil. 8^)

- 73 de Mike KB3EIA -

Actually, when it comes to some of the issues raised on this newsgroup,
yes, I do. I don't see why I should believe what Cecil makes up in his
head just because he makes it up in his head.

"I can't believe _that_!" said Alice.
"Can't you?" the Queen said in a pitying tone. "Try again: draw a
long breath, and shut your eyes."
Alice laughed. "There's no use trying," she said: "one can't believe
impossible things."
"I daresay you haven't had much practice," said the Queen. "When I
was your age, I always did it for half-an-hour a day. Why, sometimes
I've believed as many as six impossible things before breakfast. There
goes the shawl again!"

Cecil and the White Queen would get along well together.
73,
Tom Donaly, KA6RUH

Tom Donaly wrote:
Actually, when it comes to some of the issues raised on this newsgroup,
yes, I do. I don't see why I should believe what Cecil makes up in his
head just because he makes it up in his head.

Do you really think I faked all those web page references
including one from NASA?
--
73, Cecil http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp

Tom Donaly wrote:
Mike Coslo wrote:
Tom Donaly wrote:

gravity wrote:

"Tom Donaly" wrote in message
om...

Dave wrote:

Jim Kelley wrote:



Tom Donaly wrote:



Where's the experimental evidence, Cecil?





Ever heard of Ben Franklin? :-)

73, ac6xg


Every winter here in New England we run numerous experiments,
every time
I walk across the living room and touch a metal door knob.

The US military has an ESD specification of 25 KV @ 5 KOhms from a
healthy capacitor as a simulator.

Electro static discharge on antennas has been around for years. It is



real!

Dry Climate and Wind are all that's needed. Now, is the Physics at
the
air molecule level [Oxygen, Nitrogen, etc.], ionized Oxygen or
Nitrogen
atoms, charged dust particle level [that just begs the issue ...
how did
the dust get charged?], Van De Graff level, etc.? Who knows?

But, the antenna ESD is a very REAL effect. You can hypothesize the
cause all day. To solve the problem at the system level, I added
an ESD
bleed into my antenna switches.

I'm going to filter this thread to the circular file.


No one said ESD didn't exist. But you hit the nail on the head so far
as wind caused ESD, "Who knows?" I don't, and neither does Cecil,
although he thinks he does.
73,
Tom Donaly, KA6RUH




i thought it came from distant thunderstorms?

and if wind blows an ELF system around, it does get noisier. i believe
that's due to physical movement of the antenna system.

Gravity



You could be right, who knows? Certainly not the people who
are afraid to experiment.



Just as a point of info Tom. Do you perform experiments to prove
or disprove matters to your satisfaction on everything before
accepting it? That takes a very special person to be ultimately
skeptical.

Your posts would indicate that... or maybe that you just enjoy
busting on Cecil. 8^)

- 73 de Mike KB3EIA -

Actually, when it comes to some of the issues raised on this newsgroup,
yes, I do. I don't see why I should believe what Cecil makes up in his
head just because he makes it up in his head.

Okay, Tom. I'll accept that you have personal experimental results for
your statements. Not many do.

I'm not sure that anyone here believes Cecil just because he is Cecil.
I don't. Some times I see him posting his way into some very deep holes...



"I can't believe _that_!" said Alice.
"Can't you?" the Queen said in a pitying tone. "Try again: draw a
long breath, and shut your eyes."
Alice laughed. "There's no use trying," she said: "one can't believe
impossible things."
"I daresay you haven't had much practice," said the Queen. "When I
was your age, I always did it for half-an-hour a day. Why, sometimes
I've believed as many as six impossible things before breakfast. There
goes the shawl again!"

Cecil and the White Queen would get along well together.
73,
Tom Donaly, KA6RUH


I am corrected. You both determine everything experimentally and enjoy
busting on Cecil. I assumed an "And" situation, while it was actually an
"OR" situation.. 8^)

- 73 de Mike KB3EIA -

I'm not sure that anyone here believes Cecil just because he is Cecil.
I don't. Some times I see him posting his way into some very deep holes...

that's what i see. he says something controversial, gets challenged, and
then scrambles for references. the problem is that many of the references
do not directly confirm what he's saying, and a bit of calculation is
required.

i did some googling, and certainly there are others with Cecil's position.

Gravity

gravity wrote:
I'm not sure that anyone here believes Cecil just because he is Cecil.
I don't. Some times I see him posting his way into some very deep holes...

that's what i see. he says something controversial, gets challenged, and
then scrambles for references. the problem is that many of the references
do not directly confirm what he's saying, and a bit of calculation is
required.

Rather than rationalize and walk through disagreements step-by-step
Cecil prefers to distort and bully.

His posting ratio averages 3.3:1, and sometimes reaches over 6:1.

gravity wrote:
i did some googling, and certainly there are others with Cecil's position.

On most topics, I am mainstream conventional engineering
and physics - discovered over the past century or so. It
is the wannabe gurus who need to discover something
original so badly that they are willing to go against
the accepted laws of physics.
--
73, Cecil http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp