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Question for You Grounding Gurus
I have to transport four U.S. standard 5/8" dia x 8' long ground rods
35 miles in my four door compact car. Do not want to carry them on the roof. If I cut them to six feet long I can load them inside the car. Ignoring any code compliance issues would there be any reason the shortened rods would not work as well as full-length rods for purposes of ligtning protection and the usual HF station RF grounding? Soil here is probably very conductive (damp heavy loam). Thanks. Brian w3rv |
Question for You Grounding Gurus
open the windows and stick them out for the drive. this works best if you
open both the driver and passenger windows on the front doors and put the rods sideways across the car, this way they won't rub against any upholstery and you can keep a close eye on them the whole way.' "Brian Kelly" wrote in message ups.com... I have to transport four U.S. standard 5/8" dia x 8' long ground rods 35 miles in my four door compact car. Do not want to carry them on the roof. If I cut them to six feet long I can load them inside the car. Ignoring any code compliance issues would there be any reason the shortened rods would not work as well as full-length rods for purposes of ligtning protection and the usual HF station RF grounding? Soil here is probably very conductive (damp heavy loam). Thanks. Brian w3rv |
Question for You Grounding Gurus
On 20 Jul 2006 16:12:56 -0700, "Brian Kelly" wrote:
I have to transport four U.S. standard 5/8" dia x 8' long ground rods 35 miles in my four door compact car. Do not want to carry them on the roof. If I cut them to six feet long I can load them inside the car. Ignoring any code compliance issues would there be any reason the shortened rods would not work as well as full-length rods for purposes of ligtning protection and the usual HF station RF grounding? Soil here is probably very conductive (damp heavy loam). Thanks. Brian w3rv Stick 'em in the back side window, over the front passenger seat, stab 'em in on the front floor, blunt end down. Maybe you could also lower the front seat back. A few towels would protect things. bob k5qwg |
Question for You Grounding Gurus
"Brian Kelly" wrote in news:1153437176.242544.67620
@m79g2000cwm.googlegroups.com: I have to transport four U.S. standard 5/8" dia x 8' long ground rods 35 miles in my four door compact car. Do not want to carry them on the roof. If I cut them to six feet long I can load them inside the car. Ignoring any code compliance issues would there be any reason the shortened rods would not work as well as full-length rods for purposes of ligtning protection and the usual HF station RF grounding? Soil here is probably very conductive (damp heavy loam). Thanks. Brian w3rv If you are doing this for someone else, or a contractor, I'd talk to them first. While you could easily make up the difference in ground effectiveness by simply adding another one or two 6' long rods to the system with those shortened rods, some codes do require 8' in their language..... not that anyone is really going to pull them out to check! Or you can do as Dave suggested in his reply to you and just open your car windows and stick them crosswise.... should be little sticking out of either side that way.... especially if they are diagonally across. Personally, I think one can never have a good enough ground where lightning is concerned.... but I'd say you probably won't significantly be lessening your effectiveness with 6' rods vs. 8' rods. Ed K7AAT Ed K7AAT |
Question for You Grounding Gurus
On 20 Jul 2006 16:12:56 -0700, "Brian Kelly" wrote:
I have to transport four U.S. standard 5/8" dia x 8' long ground rods 35 miles in my four door compact car. Do not want to carry them on the roof. If I cut them to six feet long I can load them inside the car. Ignoring any code compliance issues would there be any reason the shortened rods would not work as well as full-length rods for purposes of ligtning protection and the usual HF station RF grounding? Soil here is probably very conductive (damp heavy loam). Thanks. In this part of the world one can buy joiners for the rods. The idea would be you cut them in two, then when you install them, drive the first rod, put the joiner on, place the second rod in the joiner, drive it etc. That's how rods of tens of metres are driven in. Maybe those joiners are available from you electrical contractors suppliers. Owen Brian w3rv -- |
Question for You Grounding Gurus
Dave wrote:
open the windows and stick them out for the drive. this works best if you open both the driver and passenger windows on the front doors and put the rods sideways across the car, this way they won't rub against any upholstery and you can keep a close eye on them the whole way.' I should have explained that that's what I want to avoid. I boogered it. Sorry Dave. I took the out-the-window approach a couple years ago and got whacked by somebody in a van who came very close to side-swiping me. Shoved the rod back into my upholstery and dinged it and I almost lost my passenger-side mirror. I guess I'll have to bite the bullet and car-top the full-length versions Tnx. Brian w3rv |
Question for You Grounding Gurus
Owen Duffy wrote:
On 20 Jul 2006 16:12:56 -0700, "Brian Kelly" wrote: In this part of the world one can buy joiners for the rods. The idea would be you cut them in two, then when you install them, drive the first rod, put the joiner on, place the second rod in the joiner, drive it etc. That's how rods of tens of metres are driven in. Maybe those joiners are available from you electrical contractors suppliers. Interesting approach but I've never run into any such things on this side of the pond. I'll ask an electrician or electrical supply house. Tnx. Owen Brian w3rv |
Question for You Grounding Gurus
Brian Kelly wrote: I have to transport four U.S. standard 5/8" dia x 8' long ground rods 35 miles in my four door compact car. Do not want to carry them on the roof. If I cut them to six feet long I can load them inside the car. Ignoring any code compliance issues would there be any reason the shortened rods would not work as well as full-length rods for purposes of ligtning protection and the usual HF station RF grounding? Soil here is probably very conductive (damp heavy loam). Thanks. Brian, I know this doesn't answer the transport problem, but what are you going to do with the rods? Lightning protection comes much more from how you wire things than a few ground rods...or even a dozen ground rods. As a matter of fact adding or improving a ground can make things worse if the bonding and entrance is installed wrong. The station ground always should attach at the cable entrance point, and that entrance MUST be bonded to the utilitly entrance ground. Many people don't do this even though it is critical. I have virtually no ground rods at all at my shack entrance, I leave all the cables connected all of the time, I have several tall towers including one 300 ft tall that gets hit several times a year, I have virtually no in house lightning arrestors on cables, and I never have lightning damage inside the house. I do have a cable entrance panel for all cables, and that panel is bonded to the power mains ground and telco ground. The reason I don't have problems, even though the magnetic field from some hits is so strong it magnetizes the TV screens, is how things enter and how they are "grounded" to a common point. I haven't even lost a computer modem. As for RF, unless you are end feeding an antenna the only way RF-in-the-shack is an issue is if something is wrong with an antenna system...either in basic design or layout. Any two conductor feeder, either balanced or unbalanced, should not produce RF in the shack. 73 Tom |
Question for You Grounding Gurus
On 20 Jul 2006 17:51:34 -0700, "Brian Kelly" wrote:
Owen Duffy wrote: On 20 Jul 2006 16:12:56 -0700, "Brian Kelly" wrote: In this part of the world one can buy joiners for the rods. The idea would be you cut them in two, then when you install them, drive the first rod, put the joiner on, place the second rod in the joiner, drive it etc. That's how rods of tens of metres are driven in. Maybe those joiners are available from you electrical contractors suppliers. Interesting approach but I've never run into any such things on this side of the pond. I'll ask an electrician or electrical supply house. Tnx. Brian, these ferrules are for copper clad steel electrodes. The are slimline, and have a hole with a slow taper bored in each end. They are "connected" during the driving process, no silver soldering etc. They cost about six pacific pesos for half inch rods, equivalent to about $4+ of your money. Owen -- |
Question for You Grounding Gurus
On 20 Jul 2006 16:12:56 -0700, "Brian Kelly" wrote:
I have to transport four U.S. standard 5/8" dia x 8' long ground rods 35 miles in my four door compact car. Do not want to carry them on the roof. If I cut them to six feet long I can load them inside the car. Ignoring any code compliance issues would there be any reason the shortened rods would not work as well as full-length rods for purposes of ligtning protection and the usual HF station RF grounding? Soil here is probably very conductive (damp heavy loam). Thanks. Brian w3rv The rods I have seen aren't solid copper, but copper plated over some other metal. One I saw appeared to have a concrete filling. You may find putting the rod back together again a little difficult. If it is just copper tubing, you may find using couplings will put you back in business.. Buck -- 73 for now Buck N4PGW |
Question for You Grounding Gurus
On Thu, 20 Jul 2006 23:32:36 GMT, Bob Miller
Stick 'em in the back side window, over the front passenger seat, stab 'em in on the front floor, blunt end down. Maybe you could also lower the front seat back. A few towels would protect things. bob k5qwg Flag the end of the rods. -- 73 for now Buck N4PGW |
Question for You Grounding Gurus
Bob Miller wrote:
On 20 Jul 2006 16:12:56 -0700, "Brian Kelly" wrote: I have to transport four U.S. standard 5/8" dia x 8' long ground rods 35 miles in my four door compact car. Do not want to carry them on the roof. If I cut them to six feet long I can load them inside the car. Ignoring any code compliance issues would there be any reason the shortened rods would not work as well as full-length rods for purposes of ligtning protection and the usual HF station RF grounding? Soil here is probably very conductive (damp heavy loam). Thanks. Brian w3rv Stick 'em in the back side window, over the front passenger seat, stab 'em in on the front floor, blunt end down. Maybe you could also lower the front seat back. A few towels would protect things. The brochure for our European subcompact hatchback showed a photograph with a surf-board inside. They folded down half the rear seat, reclined the front seat back until it was flat, and then pushed the pointy end of the board all the way into the glovebox. It was all highly contrived, and of course "your car may vary", but maybe some of those ideas will help. -- 73 from Ian GM3SEK 'In Practice' columnist for RadCom (RSGB) http://www.ifwtech.co.uk/g3sek |
Question for You Grounding Gurus
I have to transport four U.S. standard 5/8" dia x 8' long ground rods
35 miles in my four door compact car. Do not want to carry them on the roof. If I cut them to six feet long I can load them inside the car. Ignoring any code compliance issues would there be any reason the shortened rods would not work as well as full-length rods for purposes of ligtning protection and the usual HF station RF grounding? Soil here is probably very conductive (damp heavy loam). Thanks. What's wrong with putting them on the roof? They are only 8' long, so they won't overhang. Even without a roof rack it would be a simple matter to protect the roof and tie the rods down. Regards Jeff |
Question for You Grounding Gurus
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Question for You Grounding Gurus
Jeff wrote:
I have to transport four U.S. standard 5/8" dia x 8' long ground rods 35 miles in my four door compact car. Do not want to carry them on the roof. If I cut them to six feet long I can load them inside the car. Ignoring any code compliance issues would there be any reason the shortened rods would not work as well as full-length rods for purposes of ligtning protection and the usual HF station RF grounding? Soil here is probably very conductive (damp heavy loam). Thanks. What's wrong with putting them on the roof? They are only 8' long, so they won't overhang. Even without a roof rack it would be a simple matter to protect the roof and tie the rods down. You're right. I gotta go looking for a general-purpose rack. Which would greatly simplify hauling lumber and 12' lengths of aluminum tubing too. Regards Jeff Brian w3rv |
Question for You Grounding Gurus
Dave wrote:
open the windows and stick them out for the drive. this works best if you open both the driver and passenger windows on the front doors and put the rods sideways across the car, this way they won't rub against any upholstery and you can keep a close eye on them the whole way.' "Brian Kelly" wrote in message ups.com... I have to transport four U.S. standard 5/8" dia x 8' long ground rods 35 miles in my four door compact car. Do not want to carry them on the .... Roller skates and a tow line. Seriously though, Into the car through the driver side rear window and across the car to the floor on thepassenger side. You'll always have a nagging doubt if you cut them. Irv VE6BP -- -------------------------------------- Diagnosed Type II Diabetes March 5 2001 Beating it with diet and exercise! 297/215/210 (to be revised lower) 58"/43"(!)/44" (already lower too!) -------------------------------------- Visit my HomePage at http://members.shaw.ca/finkirv/index.html Visit my Baby Sofia website at http://members.shaw.ca/finkirv4/index.htm Visit my OLDTIMERS website at http://members.shaw.ca/finkirv5/index.htm -------------------- Irv Finkleman, Grampa/Ex-Navy/Old Fart/Ham Radio VE6BP Calgary, Alberta, Canada |
Question for You Grounding Gurus
Back to finding a pair of cartop cargo carriers which work with these new-fangled aircraft-style flush doors . . That will work, and you will get lots of use out of them, and when you get your pick-up sell them on eBay. You don't have a sunroof, huh? We carry two by fours, PVC pipe, etc. all the time in a Honda Civic with a sunroof. We wrap the things with rags, and we take the back roads home. For your 35 miles, it would be a bit expensive but consider Home Depot rents trucks for $18 per hour. Probably more now with gas prices. While there get some other stuff you are sure to need for the inevitable renovation work going on there at the new QTH. But don't cut the ground rods. Come on now! Rick K2XT |
Question for You Grounding Gurus
If not on the roof, then go UNDER the vehicle!
secure them with many 1/2 hitches, around the bundle, and then tie off to the vehicle frame, on the front , and back bumpers (I'm assumeing that the roads you are paved (nothing to snag these on). IF light enough load, have also laid antennad, grounds, ect, in the saddle of the rear view mirror, attaching the other end to the rear bumper. Jim NN7K Bob Miller wrote: On 20 Jul 2006 16:12:56 -0700, "Brian Kelly" wrote: I have to transport four U.S. standard 5/8" dia x 8' long ground rods 35 miles in my four door compact car. Do not want to carry them on the roof. If I cut them to six feet long I can load them inside the car. Ignoring any code compliance issues would there be any reason the shortened rods would not work as well as full-length rods for purposes of ligtning protection and the usual HF station RF grounding? Soil here is probably very conductive (damp heavy loam). Thanks. Brian w3rv |
Question for You Grounding Gurus
Cool - you can cut the rods in half and transport them... since you have
four rods, you'll end up with eight equal lengths once cut, of four feet long. There are, however some cons here (I'll get to that). Depending on your local geology and soil content, I would advise checking the conductivity of the soil in the summer, during a dry spell. Depending on ....[snip].... Although I can't cite the reference (I read too many magazines from too many sources), a recent article somewhere gave a fairly-definitive answer regarding grounding vs. depth of ground. Since I don't plan on digging any 35-foot holes (I vaguely recall that number from the article), I didn't even file the article (or if I filed it, I can't find it now!-( -- --Myron A. Calhoun. Five boxes preserve our freedoms: soap, ballot, witness, jury, and cartridge NRA Life Member W0PBV "Barbershop" tenor CDL(PTXS) (785) 539-4448 Certified Instructor (KS Concealed Carry, Rifle, Pistol, Home Firearm Safety) |
Question for You Grounding Gurus
On 29 Jul 2006 08:20:01 -0500, wrote:
Although I can't cite the reference (I read too many magazines from too many sources), a recent article somewhere gave a fairly-definitive answer regarding grounding vs. depth of ground. Hi All, In this last regard, consult: http://www.cpccorp.com/deep.htm However, depth is not the end-all be-all of the subject. Protection can be obtained for far less effort as any AM vertical antenna can give evidence to with its radial system. 73's Richard Clark, KB7QHC |
Question for You Grounding Gurus
Tom,
This is a bit off-topic, but can I ask you .. Lightning protection comes much more from how you wire things than a few ground rods...or even a dozen ground rods. As a matter of fact adding or improving a ground can make things worse if the bonding and entrance is installed wrong. The station ground always should attach at the cable entrance point, and that entrance MUST be bonded to the utilitly entrance ground. Many people don't do this even though it is critical. Did you do this yourself, or did you get a pro of some kind? I have tried to understand the advice I have seen (in particular the ARRL articles) but I've only become convinced that it needs more knowledge than I have, or at least that I could easily do exactly the wrong thing. Would any electrician know enough (I'm suspecting not) or some other professional? Jim |
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