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"Roger Halstead" wrote You mean like writting for QST? :-)) *** Perhaps you can issue the writs against those copyright infringers. Brian Goldsmith. |
"Roger Halstead" wrote You mean like writting for QST? :-)) *** Perhaps you can issue the writs against those copyright infringers. Brian Goldsmith. |
"John D. Farr" wrote in message ... It seems that if one owns the equipment, he has a right to the docs for it. John Would that were true! g Yeah, in days of old, equipment always came with at least a schematic, even if it was glued to the inside of the wood case. But along the way, stuff got a lot more complicated. In 1960 or so, when you bought a Tek 555 scope, you got a full manual too, a couple of inches of docs. But the pressure builds to trim costs, and by the 70's, you spend $15k for an instrument, and all you get is an Operational Manual. The two-inch thick Service Manual, with theory, parts list, diagnostic trees, and typical waveforms is $100 extra. If I want the full docs now for say, an HP-8566B or an HP-8471A, I better bring a cart. There's an Operator's Manual, a Service Manual, a Programmers Manual, and a Parts List, Spares List & Calibration Manual. And they each fill a 3" notebook binder! Actually, the days of big manuals may be gone already. New equipment now is much more disposable; you don't find a master tech troubleshooting a complex equipment. Instead, they slap on an IEEE-488 diagnostic cable, run the factory supplied calibration and diagnostic, and, if it can't be fixed in software, it likely gets declared too expensive to fix. Junk it! And if you think that's gonna mean a new golden age of surplus, you're wrong. Modern gear is more computer than anything else. There's not much you can do when you see the signal go into a proprietary chip, and nothing comes out. And the construction is now all surface-mount stuff, with trace spacing so close it looks like a Moiré pattern. I defy you to probe any ONE trace. OK, so maybe you like using a microscope. g Ed WB6WSN |
"John D. Farr" wrote in message ... It seems that if one owns the equipment, he has a right to the docs for it. John Would that were true! g Yeah, in days of old, equipment always came with at least a schematic, even if it was glued to the inside of the wood case. But along the way, stuff got a lot more complicated. In 1960 or so, when you bought a Tek 555 scope, you got a full manual too, a couple of inches of docs. But the pressure builds to trim costs, and by the 70's, you spend $15k for an instrument, and all you get is an Operational Manual. The two-inch thick Service Manual, with theory, parts list, diagnostic trees, and typical waveforms is $100 extra. If I want the full docs now for say, an HP-8566B or an HP-8471A, I better bring a cart. There's an Operator's Manual, a Service Manual, a Programmers Manual, and a Parts List, Spares List & Calibration Manual. And they each fill a 3" notebook binder! Actually, the days of big manuals may be gone already. New equipment now is much more disposable; you don't find a master tech troubleshooting a complex equipment. Instead, they slap on an IEEE-488 diagnostic cable, run the factory supplied calibration and diagnostic, and, if it can't be fixed in software, it likely gets declared too expensive to fix. Junk it! And if you think that's gonna mean a new golden age of surplus, you're wrong. Modern gear is more computer than anything else. There's not much you can do when you see the signal go into a proprietary chip, and nothing comes out. And the construction is now all surface-mount stuff, with trace spacing so close it looks like a Moiré pattern. I defy you to probe any ONE trace. OK, so maybe you like using a microscope. g Ed WB6WSN |
"Roger Halstead" wrote in message ... On Fri, 26 Sep 2003 23:00:41 GMT, "Dee D. Flint" wrote: "Nocturnal1" wrote in message ... If I had my druthers, there would be no copyright law and everything would be freely available for downloading... Nobody would write any new material in that case. It wouldn't be worth their time and effort. You mean like writting for QST? :-)) It's the prestige that counts. Roger Halstead (K8RI EN73 & ARRL Life Member) www.rogerhalstead.com N833R World's oldest Debonair? (S# CD-2) Prestige will only get a limited amount of material written. Afterall if people aren't paid for their work, their time to write will be limited due to the fact that they've got to have a regular job to keep body and soul together. Dee D. Flint, N8UZE |
"Roger Halstead" wrote in message ... On Fri, 26 Sep 2003 23:00:41 GMT, "Dee D. Flint" wrote: "Nocturnal1" wrote in message ... If I had my druthers, there would be no copyright law and everything would be freely available for downloading... Nobody would write any new material in that case. It wouldn't be worth their time and effort. You mean like writting for QST? :-)) It's the prestige that counts. Roger Halstead (K8RI EN73 & ARRL Life Member) www.rogerhalstead.com N833R World's oldest Debonair? (S# CD-2) Prestige will only get a limited amount of material written. Afterall if people aren't paid for their work, their time to write will be limited due to the fact that they've got to have a regular job to keep body and soul together. Dee D. Flint, N8UZE |
"John D. Farr" wrote in message ... It seems that if one owns the equipment, he has a right to the docs for it. John Then he/she should make sure that they get the document with the equipment. If you buy used equipment, make sure the seller has the document or go buy the documents from the maker of the equipment. However, since the people who are selling the copies are doing so "out in the open" and even advertising it, the copyright holders could easily shut them down in they wanted to. Since the copyright holders choose not to do so, then I wouldn't worry about it too much. Out of print is not an excuse for violating copyright by the way. If something is out of print, what you are supposed to do is get permission of the copyright holder before making a copy. If you can't find the copyright holder, you are generally off the hook if you can demonstrate that you have made every reasonable effort to find them. Dee D. Flint, N8UZE |
"John D. Farr" wrote in message ... It seems that if one owns the equipment, he has a right to the docs for it. John Then he/she should make sure that they get the document with the equipment. If you buy used equipment, make sure the seller has the document or go buy the documents from the maker of the equipment. However, since the people who are selling the copies are doing so "out in the open" and even advertising it, the copyright holders could easily shut them down in they wanted to. Since the copyright holders choose not to do so, then I wouldn't worry about it too much. Out of print is not an excuse for violating copyright by the way. If something is out of print, what you are supposed to do is get permission of the copyright holder before making a copy. If you can't find the copyright holder, you are generally off the hook if you can demonstrate that you have made every reasonable effort to find them. Dee D. Flint, N8UZE |
Ed Price wrote:
"John D. Farr" wrote in message ... It seems that if one owns the equipment, he has a right to the docs for it. John Would that were true! g Yeah, in days of old, equipment always came with at least a schematic, even if it was glued to the inside of the wood case. But along the way, stuff got a lot more complicated. In 1960 or so, when you bought a Tek 555 scope, you got a full manual too, a couple of inches of docs. But the pressure builds to trim costs, and by the 70's, you spend $15k for an instrument, and all you get is an Operational Manual. The two-inch thick Service Manual, with theory, parts list, diagnostic trees, and typical waveforms is $100 extra. If I want the full docs now for say, an HP-8566B or an HP-8471A, I better bring a cart. There's an Operator's Manual, a Service Manual, a Programmers Manual, and a Parts List, Spares List & Calibration Manual. And they each fill a 3" notebook binder! Actually, the days of big manuals may be gone already. New equipment now is much more disposable; you don't find a master tech troubleshooting a complex equipment. Instead, they slap on an IEEE-488 diagnostic cable, run the factory supplied calibration and diagnostic, and, if it can't be fixed in software, it likely gets declared too expensive to fix. Junk it! And if you think that's gonna mean a new golden age of surplus, you're wrong. Modern gear is more computer than anything else. There's not much you can do when you see the signal go into a proprietary chip, and nothing comes out. And the construction is now all surface-mount stuff, with trace spacing so close it looks like a Moiré pattern. I defy you to probe any ONE trace. OK, so maybe you like using a microscope. g Ed WB6WSN Fine pitch surface mount isn't that hard to work on, after a little training. You do need a steady hand, and the right tools to do good work. I spent four years doing fine pitch surface mount PC board work, both testing and repairing boards that make a motherboard for a PC look simple. Because of my poor vision I had to use a stereo microscope to see the solder bridges and solder joints that cracked while the board was cooling in the reflow oven. -- Michael A. Terrell Central Florida |
Ed Price wrote:
"John D. Farr" wrote in message ... It seems that if one owns the equipment, he has a right to the docs for it. John Would that were true! g Yeah, in days of old, equipment always came with at least a schematic, even if it was glued to the inside of the wood case. But along the way, stuff got a lot more complicated. In 1960 or so, when you bought a Tek 555 scope, you got a full manual too, a couple of inches of docs. But the pressure builds to trim costs, and by the 70's, you spend $15k for an instrument, and all you get is an Operational Manual. The two-inch thick Service Manual, with theory, parts list, diagnostic trees, and typical waveforms is $100 extra. If I want the full docs now for say, an HP-8566B or an HP-8471A, I better bring a cart. There's an Operator's Manual, a Service Manual, a Programmers Manual, and a Parts List, Spares List & Calibration Manual. And they each fill a 3" notebook binder! Actually, the days of big manuals may be gone already. New equipment now is much more disposable; you don't find a master tech troubleshooting a complex equipment. Instead, they slap on an IEEE-488 diagnostic cable, run the factory supplied calibration and diagnostic, and, if it can't be fixed in software, it likely gets declared too expensive to fix. Junk it! And if you think that's gonna mean a new golden age of surplus, you're wrong. Modern gear is more computer than anything else. There's not much you can do when you see the signal go into a proprietary chip, and nothing comes out. And the construction is now all surface-mount stuff, with trace spacing so close it looks like a Moiré pattern. I defy you to probe any ONE trace. OK, so maybe you like using a microscope. g Ed WB6WSN Fine pitch surface mount isn't that hard to work on, after a little training. You do need a steady hand, and the right tools to do good work. I spent four years doing fine pitch surface mount PC board work, both testing and repairing boards that make a motherboard for a PC look simple. Because of my poor vision I had to use a stereo microscope to see the solder bridges and solder joints that cracked while the board was cooling in the reflow oven. -- Michael A. Terrell Central Florida |
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