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hillbilly3302

October 22nd 03 09:23 PM

Cantenna

I have an old Heathkit Cantenna dummy load. how can I tell what its filled
with, Transformer oil (pcb's) or Mineral oil... sounds silly but it just
started leaking and I have oil all over the work bench... I went to a paint
store and got another gallon can and that took care of the leak. hi , but
it was about half empty.

k5drc

Chuck Harris

October 22nd 03 10:14 PM

Mineral oil is the usual fare. The Cantenna came without any,
and instructed you to go to the drugstore for a gallon of
mineral oil.

Transformer oil usually smells very "electrical", mineral oil
is mostly odorless.

-Chuck

PJ wrote:
If you start feeling weird, develop cancer, or grow any extra
protuberances -- it could have been pcb.

" hillbilly3302" wrote in message
news:1066854521.103078@`ache3...

I have an old Heathkit Cantenna dummy load. how can I tell what its

filled

with, Transformer oil (pcb's) or Mineral oil... sounds silly but it

just

started leaking and I have oil all over the work bench... I went to a

paint

store and got another gallon can and that took care of the leak. hi , but
it was about half empty.

k5drc

Chuck Harris

October 22nd 03 10:14 PM

Dan/W4NTI

October 22nd 03 10:58 PM

Dump the half thats there, refill with mineral oil.

Dan/W4NTI

" hillbilly3302" wrote in message
news:1066854521.103078@`ache3...
I have an old Heathkit Cantenna dummy load. how can I tell what its
filled
with, Transformer oil (pcb's) or Mineral oil... sounds silly but it
just
started leaking and I have oil all over the work bench... I went to a
paint
store and got another gallon can and that took care of the leak. hi , but
it was about half empty.

k5drc

Dan/W4NTI

October 22nd 03 10:58 PM

Gregg

October 22nd 03 11:01 PM

Having the misfortune of owning several leaky PCB filled capacitors, PCB
smells almost "mediciney-old-radio" thing.

Having the good fortune to have used/refilled/made several Cantenna's, I
have yet to come across one filled with PCB. A friend did put me on to
Shell Turbine Oil for them as much better than mineral oil ;-)

--
Gregg
*It's probably useful, even if it can't be SPICE'd*
http://geek.scorpiorising.ca

Gregg

October 22nd 03 11:01 PM

David G. Nagel

October 22nd 03 11:47 PM

Back in the early days when PCB's were the cause celebre I asked the
local REMC to analyze the oil from my Cantenna. The results came back to
the effect that "We don't know what this stuff is but it's not PCB".
The Cantenna sits in my closet patiently awaiting it's next call to service.
Check with your local power company repair center to see if they have a
gallon of transformer oil available. Don't call the billing office. They
won't have any idea what you are talking about.

Dave WD9BDZ

Gregg wrote:
Having the misfortune of owning several leaky PCB filled capacitors, PCB
smells almost "mediciney-old-radio" thing.

Having the good fortune to have used/refilled/made several Cantenna's, I
have yet to come across one filled with PCB. A friend did put me on to
Shell Turbine Oil for them as much better than mineral oil ;-)

David G. Nagel

October 22nd 03 11:47 PM

PJ	October 22nd 03 11:56 PM

If you start feeling weird, develop cancer, or grow any extra
protuberances -- it could have been pcb.

" hillbilly3302" wrote in message
news:1066854521.103078@`ache3...
I have an old Heathkit Cantenna dummy load. how can I tell what its
filled
with, Transformer oil (pcb's) or Mineral oil... sounds silly but it
just
started leaking and I have oil all over the work bench... I went to a
paint
store and got another gallon can and that took care of the leak. hi , but
it was about half empty.

k5drc

PJ	October 22nd 03 11:56 PM

Phil Witt

October 23rd 03 12:35 AM

On Wed, 22 Oct 2003 15:23:01 -0500, " hillbilly3302"
wrote:

I have an old Heathkit Cantenna dummy load. how can I tell what its filled
with, Transformer oil (pcb's) or Mineral oil... sounds silly but it just
started leaking and I have oil all over the work bench... I went to a paint
store and got another gallon can and that took care of the leak. hi , but
it was about half empty.

k5drc

The old common PCB oil for dummy loads had strong floral smell, like
rotten roses or something. Once on you it was like you had been
sprayed by a skunk. I've had it all over me and it seems to have done
no harm unless this itching on my third arm is because of it.

Phil Witt

October 23rd 03 12:35 AM

Wayne

October 23rd 03 02:40 AM

Gregg wrote:

Having the misfortune of owning several leaky PCB filled capacitors, PCB
smells almost "mediciney-old-radio" thing.

Having the good fortune to have used/refilled/made several Cantenna's, I
have yet to come across one filled with PCB. A friend did put me on to
Shell Turbine Oil for them as much better than mineral oil ;-)

--
Gregg
*It's probably useful, even if it can't be SPICE'd*
http://geek.scorpiorising.ca

Here in Nebraska, the best source for the turbine oil is any of the farm
supply places, such as Tractor Supply Company, you usually find on the
outskirts of town.

Wayne, KEØBZ

-----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =-----
http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World!
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Wayne

October 23rd 03 02:40 AM

Ed Price

October 23rd 03 01:30 PM

" hillbilly3302" wrote in message
news:1066854521.103078@`ache3...
I have an old Heathkit Cantenna dummy load. how can I tell what its
filled
with, Transformer oil (pcb's) or Mineral oil... sounds silly but it
just
started leaking and I have oil all over the work bench... I went to a
paint
store and got another gallon can and that took care of the leak. hi , but
it was about half empty.

k5drc

The oil could be most anything, since the Cantenna was shipped dry, and the
buyer was instructed to fill it with mineral oil. What the PO really poured
in there is the real question. Since most consumers didn't have access to a
gallon of PCB (Monsanto's Arachlor), it likely isn't a PCB. But who knows?
One easy test is that a PCB won't burn, where engine oil or mineral oil
will. Wet a small piece of paper towel with the unknown oil, and try to
light it (away from the main body of oil!). If it won't burn, then its PCB.

Imagine the repercussions of knowing you had leaked a half-gallon of PCB in
your home. You have now created an official toxic spill, a hazardous site
which now must be properly decontaminated. If you think asbestos remediation
is bad news, just wait till the hazmat guys are into your PCB zone.
Remember, those PCB's love water, and they don't break down (short of oxygen
incineration), so you have a lot more than just a workbench that has to go.
You have got that stuff all over your hands, and your clothes. Where did you
wash your hands? Oops, now your bathroom is also contaminated. So's the rest
of your house. How did you wash your clothes? Looks like you'll be needing a
new washer / dryer. And where did that PCB contaminated laundry water go to?
Probably have to dig up your sewer pipes and haul them off too! Not to
mention that you have now contaminated your entire municipal sewerage
system! Get ready for some interesting fines and new legal exposure.

Did you shake hands with anybody lately? You've been spreading trace amounts
of PCB's everywhere. And what is the maximum allowable "safe" level of PCB
contamination? Parts per million? Parts per billion? You'll wish you were
dead. But even so, since PCB's also love fatty acids (they just love to hide
in the fat cells of your body), your carcass is also contaminated. You're a
walking toxic waste dump. You probably meet the criteria for needing an MSDS
just to drive to work. (Did I mention that you also have contaminated your
workplace?) So even an embalmer wouldn't want to touch you, and what
cemetery would accept an officially contaminated corpse?

Nope, looks like cremation is indicated. And I'll bet there's a wild
"Catch-22" waiting for you. I'll bet that a human crematory won't accept a
"toxic waste" contaminated corpse, and a toxic waste incinerator isn't
licensed to accept a human corpse. Gotcha! Maybe a Viking funeral?

Yep, them PCB's are officially nasty little chemicals. Just ask Dow
Chemical, who's still paying to dig up Hudson River mud and move it to
somewhere else that isn't the Hudson River (and that "somewhere else" is
another story).

Ed

Ed Price

October 23rd 03 01:30 PM

ham	October 23rd 03 04:27 PM

Around 1957 I went to the Southern California Edison yard in the industrial area
of Santa Barbara.

In the office I paid a couple a dollar or so for a gallon of transformer oil and
took my gallon can and followed one of the men outside to a 55 gallon drum. The
whole area was oily, dirty and looked like it'd been used for years. Some areas
of the ground looked as though they'd been paved with oil. We opened the valve
on the can and filled the can. Then we both wiped the spills and splashes on
our hands and the drips on the can off using a very oily rag.

When I got back to my 1947 Chevy I put it on an old rag in the trunk of the car
in a cardboard box so it wouldn't tip over. I wiped my oily shoes on the dirt
at the edge of the road so I wouldn't get too much oil on the rubber floor mats.

When I got home I poured the oil into the Heathkit Cantenna can and had some
left over. A few years later I poured out the remnants from the can onto the
ground in the area where our oil drain pans were inverted to get the gunk out of
them and threw the can in the garbage.

In following years I put the dummy load on the floor under the operating desk in
a pie tin to keep any seepage from getting on the carpet and floor. I wiped it
off several times over the years with paper towels.

Since all my fingers have fallen off - I'm typing with my toes - and now need to
wear glasses and my eyesight isn't as good as it used to be.

Do you think this is a result of coming in contact with PCB?

Ed Price wrote:

" hillbilly3302" wrote in message
news:1066854521.103078@`ache3...
I have an old Heathkit Cantenna dummy load. how can I tell what its
filled
with, Transformer oil (pcb's) or Mineral oil... sounds silly but it
just
started leaking and I have oil all over the work bench... I went to a
paint
store and got another gallon can and that took care of the leak. hi , but
it was about half empty.

k5drc

ham	October 23rd 03 04:27 PM

KeyBoard In The Wilderness

October 23rd 03 05:33 PM

This has been discussed many many times before.

To see hundreds of replies -- go to URL: http://groups.google.com/

Type in Cantenna

Get over 1000 posts !!!

--
73 From The KeyBoard In The Wilderness
==========================
"ham" wrote in message
...
Around 1957 I went to the Southern California Edison yard in the
industrial area
of Santa Barbara.

In the office I paid a couple a dollar or so for a gallon of transformer
oil and
took my gallon can and followed one of the men outside to a 55 gallon
drum. The
whole area was oily, dirty and looked like it'd been used for years. Some
areas
of the ground looked as though they'd been paved with oil. We opened the
valve
on the can and filled the can. Then we both wiped the spills and splashes
on
our hands and the drips on the can off using a very oily rag.

When I got back to my 1947 Chevy I put it on an old rag in the trunk of
the car
in a cardboard box so it wouldn't tip over. I wiped my oily shoes on the
dirt
at the edge of the road so I wouldn't get too much oil on the rubber floor
mats.

When I got home I poured the oil into the Heathkit Cantenna can and had
some
left over. A few years later I poured out the remnants from the can onto
the
ground in the area where our oil drain pans were inverted to get the gunk
out of
them and threw the can in the garbage.

In following years I put the dummy load on the floor under the operating
desk in
a pie tin to keep any seepage from getting on the carpet and floor. I
wiped it
off several times over the years with paper towels.

Since all my fingers have fallen off - I'm typing with my toes - and now
need to
wear glasses and my eyesight isn't as good as it used to be.

Do you think this is a result of coming in contact with PCB?

Ed Price wrote:

" hillbilly3302" wrote in message
news:1066854521.103078@`ache3...
I have an old Heathkit Cantenna dummy load. how can I tell what its
filled
with, Transformer oil (pcb's) or Mineral oil... sounds silly but it
just
started leaking and I have oil all over the work bench... I went to a
paint
store and got another gallon can and that took care of the leak. hi ,
but
it was about half empty.

k5drc

KeyBoard In The Wilderness

October 23rd 03 05:33 PM

Mike Andrews

October 23rd 03 05:52 PM

ham wrote:

[snip tale of filling a cantenna at a transformer maintenance yard]

In following years I put the dummy load on the floor under the operating desk in
a pie tin to keep any seepage from getting on the carpet and floor. I wiped it
off several times over the years with paper towels.

Since all my fingers have fallen off - I'm typing with my toes - and now need to
wear glasses and my eyesight isn't as good as it used to be.

Do you think this is a result of coming in contact with PCB?

No. If it had been PCBs, you'd have _extra_ arms, legs, fingers, toes,
head, and so on.

Dunno what it is, though. Maybe if you'd stuck with firebottle stuff,
you'd be OK, and not have to deal with the residual chemicals from all
that sand-state stuff.

--
Mike Andrews

Tired old sysadmin

Mike Andrews

October 23rd 03 05:52 PM

Phil Witt

October 23rd 03 06:20 PM

On Thu, 23 Oct 2003 15:27:31 GMT, ham wrote:

Since all my fingers have fallen off - I'm typing with my toes - and now need to
wear glasses and my eyesight isn't as good as it used to be.

Do you think this is a result of coming in contact with PCB?

No question about it. I can't see nearly as well as I could 50-60
years ago. I wonder who I can sue for that.

Phil Witt

October 23rd 03 06:20 PM

--exray--

October 23rd 03 08:04 PM

Phil Witt wrote:

No question about it. I can't see nearly as well as I could 50-60
years ago. I wonder who I can sue for that.

It has been proven that long-term exposure to ANYTHING can kill you.
Even fresh air. So far nobody has survived lengthy exposure to it.

-Bill

--exray--

October 23rd 03 08:04 PM

hillbilly3302

October 23rd 03 08:17 PM

Gee, I sure am glad I asked this question, haven't learned anything but
had some good laughs, hi.... this could make a good movie!

k5drc

hillbilly3302

October 23rd 03 08:17 PM

Gee, I sure am glad I asked this question, haven't learned anything but
had some good laughs, hi.... this could make a good movie!

k5drc

Ed Price

October 24th 03 09:44 AM

"ham" wrote in message
...
Around 1957 I went to the Southern California Edison yard in the
industrial area
of Santa Barbara.

In the office I paid a couple a dollar or so for a gallon of transformer
oil and
took my gallon can and followed one of the men outside to a 55 gallon
drum. The
whole area was oily, dirty and looked like it'd been used for years. Some
areas
of the ground looked as though they'd been paved with oil. We opened the
valve
on the can and filled the can. Then we both wiped the spills and splashes
on
our hands and the drips on the can off using a very oily rag.

When I got back to my 1947 Chevy I put it on an old rag in the trunk of
the car
in a cardboard box so it wouldn't tip over. I wiped my oily shoes on the
dirt
at the edge of the road so I wouldn't get too much oil on the rubber floor
mats.

When I got home I poured the oil into the Heathkit Cantenna can and had
some
left over. A few years later I poured out the remnants from the can onto
the
ground in the area where our oil drain pans were inverted to get the gunk
out of
them and threw the can in the garbage.

In following years I put the dummy load on the floor under the operating
desk in
a pie tin to keep any seepage from getting on the carpet and floor. I
wiped it
off several times over the years with paper towels.

Since all my fingers have fallen off - I'm typing with my toes - and now
need to
wear glasses and my eyesight isn't as good as it used to be.

Do you think this is a result of coming in contact with PCB?

For a few years, I worked at a company which made a line of oil impregnated
paper dielectric capacitors. The impregnating vats were about 3 feet in
diameter and about 2 feet deep. Capacitors would be loaded on a rack, the
vat sealed, and the rack lowered into a pool of PCB (Arochlor). After about
a 24 hour cycle, the vat would be opened. Many times, a few capacitors would
have tumbled out of position, and you had to reach your arm down into the
Arochlor to unjam the rack and fish out the stray capacitors.

This was back in the days when PCB's were good, DDT was man's best friend,
dioxin hadn't been heard of and you could survive a nearby 10 megaton blast
by a quick duck & cover. Actually, I think bobbing for capacitors under
PCB's was what has protected me from any damage from high-power RF fields
all these years.

Ed
WB6WSN

Ed Price

October 24th 03 09:44 AM

Mike Andrews

October 24th 03 03:01 PM

Ed Price wrote:

For a few years, I worked at a company which made a line of oil impregnated
paper dielectric capacitors. The impregnating vats were about 3 feet in
diameter and about 2 feet deep. Capacitors would be loaded on a rack, the
vat sealed, and the rack lowered into a pool of PCB (Arochlor). After about
a 24 hour cycle, the vat would be opened. Many times, a few capacitors would
have tumbled out of position, and you had to reach your arm down into the
Arochlor to unjam the rack and fish out the stray capacitors.

This was back in the days when PCB's were good, DDT was man's best friend,
dioxin hadn't been heard of and you could survive a nearby 10 megaton blast
by a quick duck & cover. Actually, I think bobbing for capacitors under
PCB's was what has protected me from any damage from high-power RF fields
all these years.

And as an added bonus, your HV rating has improved considerably.

I find myself wondering what might be the results of _my_ exposure
to all manner of industrial and laboratory chemicals over a lot of
years.

--
Then again, this is still an Internet where the appropriately named
Domino server
It's not appropriately named; it should be called Lotus House of Cards.
-- Steve Sobol, in response to Alan Brown

Mike Andrews

October 24th 03 03:01 PM

Ed Zeranski

October 29th 03 04:01 AM

Yep, them PCB's are officially nasty little chemicals. .....
Ed

1: pour contents into empty coffee can

2: replace coffee can lid

3: gift wrap same

4: place on car rear seat, leave window down

5: go have a beer or three +/_ 45 minutes

6: go back to car, wipe seat where can was

7: go home or
7b: have another beer to celebrate empty rear seat

Hazmat is easy !!! ~8^o

EdZ(another Ed)

Ed Zeranski

October 29th 03 04:01 AM

Ed Zeranski

October 29th 03 04:11 AM

And as an added bonus, your HV rating has improved considerably.

Yep! I have not arced over in several years.

I find myself wondering what might be the results of _my_ exposure
to all manner of industrial and laboratory chemicals over a lot of
years.

Back when I worked a lot of radar, countermeasures, and big RF stuff we
would get a drench of Cooliol 50 or 75 cooling oil every once in a while.
Clean up? we used trico or industrial freon. Am not sure of the results yet
but the last time a UFO came close they did a U turn.

EdZ

Ed Zeranski

October 29th 03 04:11 AM

Ed Price

October 31st 03 07:21 PM

"Ed Zeranski" wrote in message
...
And as an added bonus, your HV rating has improved considerably.

Yep! I have not arced over in several years.

I find myself wondering what might be the results of _my_ exposure
to all manner of industrial and laboratory chemicals over a lot of
years.

Back when I worked a lot of radar, countermeasures, and big RF stuff we
would get a drench of Cooliol 50 or 75 cooling oil every once in a while.
Clean up? we used trico or industrial freon. Am not sure of the results
yet
but the last time a UFO came close they did a U turn.

EdZ

Yep. they thought you was a marker beacon, till they got close enough to
(one) eyeball you!

Ed(P)

Ed Price

October 31st 03 07:21 PM

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