Recapping a valuable radio?
 

As you may know, there's an SX-88 on Ebay. The pictures show it still
has the original paper capacitors like the 'Tiny Chiefs' and 'Black
Beauties', which are known to become leaky. Should a valuable radio like
the '88' be run with these caps' and possibly damage an irreplacable
componant, such as an I.F. transformer? Would it lessen the value if it
was recapped?


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On 4-Dec-2003, starman randomly pounded his keyboard and
ended up generating:

As you may know, there's an SX-88 on Ebay. The pictures show it still
has the original paper capacitors like the 'Tiny Chiefs' and 'Black
Beauties', which are known to become leaky. Should a valuable radio like
the '88' be run with these caps' and possibly damage an irreplacable
componant, such as an I.F. transformer? Would it lessen the value if it
was recapped?

IMHO you are the only one who can answer that question.

There has been lots of debate over the value of keeping radios as original
as possible vs.replacing the known bad components in order to make it
useable.

In my case, I use my radios which means they get repaired using currently
available parts. There are others who fervently believe a rare unit such as
this should be kept in as original condition as possible. By extension, this
means the radio sits on a shelf and is preserved for future generations to
appreciate. Both views are correct as different people have different
values.

You could, of course, go the route of stuffing new components into the old
cases. I've done this on the electrolytics on an SX-28. But unless you are
very talented, it may end up looking like... well, cut up parts that were
glued back together.

You could also cause more problems during re-capping by making mistakes and
blowing something else up.

I think we could all agree that you should NOT run the radio with the
original Black Beauties in it. The rest is up for you to decide.

"starman" wrote in message
...
As you may know, there's an SX-88 on Ebay. The pictures show it still
has the original paper capacitors like the 'Tiny Chiefs' and 'Black
Beauties', which are known to become leaky. Should a valuable radio
like
the '88' be run with these caps' and possibly damage an irreplacable
componant, such as an I.F. transformer? Would it lessen the value if
it
was recapped?


In this case, I think a recapped radio would be less valueable. The
people buying these things must think these things are more than just
radios. So keeping the original capacitors in their original positions,
with the original solder, etc. preserves the what -- nostalgia value?

I noticed the pink Tiny Chiefs and the Black Beauties as well as the
electrolytics, too. I'm sure the Hallicrafters engineers were well
aware that the steel cased oil filled paper caps were more reliable.

Frank Dresser

Frank Dresser wrote:

"starman" wrote in message
...
As you may know, there's an SX-88 on Ebay. The pictures show it still
has the original paper capacitors like the 'Tiny Chiefs' and 'Black
Beauties', which are known to become leaky. Should a valuable radio
like
the '88' be run with these caps' and possibly damage an irreplacable
componant, such as an I.F. transformer? Would it lessen the value if
it
was recapped?


In this case, I think a recapped radio would be less valueable. The
people buying these things must think these things are more than just
radios. So keeping the original capacitors in their original positions,
with the original solder, etc. preserves the what -- nostalgia value?

I noticed the pink Tiny Chiefs and the Black Beauties as well as the
electrolytics, too. I'm sure the Hallicrafters engineers were well
aware that the steel cased oil filled paper caps were more reliable.

Frank Dresser

I am restoring a TS-382 Audio signal generator that is built with all
bathtub cabs, and every one of them is bad. They were made with the same
high acid paper that wax and molded capacitors were made with, they are
just sealed in transformer oil. I am in the process of unsoldering the
cans and replacing the caps inside with metal film capacitors I have to
use a torch to heat the case and cover. There is a small vent hole that
is soldered shut. You have to find it and remove the solder first, or it
may blow hot solder on you when remove solder melts around the edge of
the cover. Then I use a curved dental pick to lift the cover off while
carefully heating the cover with a torch. I use a small drill press vice
with smooth jaws to hold the can, and set it on a sheet of steel. (An
old desktop PC case is good, because it has an open airspace under it.)

When I started this I dug through my collection of NOS bathtubs, and
most of them have high leakage as well. I did find one company who
still makes new bathtub, and other oil filled caps, but I couldn't spend
several hundred dollars for new caps for one project.
--
21 days!


Michael A. Terrell
Central Florida

Michael A. Terrell wrote:
Frank Dresser wrote:

"starman" wrote in message
...

As you may know, there's an SX-88 on Ebay. The pictures show it still
has the original paper capacitors like the 'Tiny Chiefs' and 'Black
Beauties', which are known to become leaky. Should a valuable radio

like

the '88' be run with these caps' and possibly damage an irreplacable
componant, such as an I.F. transformer? Would it lessen the value if

it

was recapped?



I am restoring a TS-382 Audio signal generator that is built with all
bathtub cabs, and every one of them is bad.


Michael A's example shows just how unpredictable it is. Personally, if
I could own an SX-88 I'd want to be able to experience it in top
condition in all its glory...but I am not a "collector".

The only set I have knowingly left bad caps in was a Volkempfanger DKE
38 that looks like it just rolled off the assembly line. Clearly its
not going to be a daily "listener" and all the new caps in the world
ain't gonna help it much. It does work, however.

Ya never know...those caps could actually be GOOD in the SX-88 (snicker,
snicker). If I did own an SX-88, and if the caps were bad, I'd
certainly change them...and I'd restuff them...and I'd enjoy the radio.
If my heirs have to take a $100 reduction in the value of the radio,
tough for them.

-Bill

"Michael A. Terrell" wrote in message
...

I am restoring a TS-382 Audio signal generator that is built with
all
bathtub cabs, and every one of them is bad. They were made with the
same
high acid paper that wax and molded capacitors were made with, they
are
just sealed in transformer oil. I am in the process of unsoldering the
cans and replacing the caps inside with metal film capacitors I have
to
use a torch to heat the case and cover. There is a small vent hole
that
is soldered shut. You have to find it and remove the solder first, or
it
may blow hot solder on you when remove solder melts around the edge of
the cover. Then I use a curved dental pick to lift the cover off while
carefully heating the cover with a torch. I use a small drill press
vice
with smooth jaws to hold the can, and set it on a sheet of steel. (An
old desktop PC case is good, because it has an open airspace under
it.)

Steel bath tub caps have been pretty reliable for me. Certainly more
reliable than paper or electolytic caps. I've got the chassis out of my
S-36, and I'll check those steel caps carefully.


When I started this I dug through my collection of NOS bathtubs,
and
most of them have high leakage as well. I did find one company who
still makes new bathtub, and other oil filled caps, but I couldn't
spend
several hundred dollars for new caps for one project.
--
21 days!


Michael A. Terrell
Central Florida

I only have a few NOS steel caps in my collection. I checked them a
couple of years ago, and they were good.

Anyway, oil filled steel caps were more reliable than paper caps and
electrolytics in the mid 50s and were the usual choice with cost is no
object equipment.

Frank Dresser

Depends on who is buying it, and what they want it for.
If its being bought by a collector who will just put it on the
shelf (not me!), then don't re-cap. If its being bought to be
used, re-capping is the only way to go.

Steve

starman wrote in message
...
As you may know, there's an SX-88 on Ebay. The pictures show it still
has the original paper capacitors like the 'Tiny Chiefs' and 'Black
Beauties', which are known to become leaky. Should a valuable radio like
the '88' be run with these caps' and possibly damage an irreplacable
componant, such as an I.F. transformer? Would it lessen the value if it
was recapped?


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Frank Dresser wrote:
"starman" wrote in message
...

As you may know, there's an SX-88 on Ebay. The pictures show it still
has the original paper capacitors like the 'Tiny Chiefs' and 'Black
Beauties', which are known to become leaky. Should a valuable radio

like

the '88' be run with these caps' and possibly damage an irreplacable
componant, such as an I.F. transformer? Would it lessen the value if

it

was recapped?



In this case, I think a recapped radio would be less valueable. The
people buying these things must think these things are more than just
radios. So keeping the original capacitors in their original positions,
with the original solder, etc. preserves the what -- nostalgia value?

I noticed the pink Tiny Chiefs and the Black Beauties as well as the
electrolytics, too. I'm sure the Hallicrafters engineers were well
aware that the steel cased oil filled paper caps were more reliable.

Frank Dresser


If you want if for a shelf queen and never used, then leave it original,
but if you want to use it (which a fine receiver as this should be),
then by all means recap it, that won't reduce it's value as much as a
burnt out IF can or power transformer because of a bad cap.

In article ,
"Frank Dresser" writes:

Anyway, oil filled steel caps were more reliable than paper caps and
electrolytics in the mid 50s and were the usual choice with cost is no
object equipment.

When I got my Collins R-388 (51J3), the AVC was bad. I was surprised when I
traced it to a very leaky steel bathtub cap -- I thought those mil-spec babies
never went bad. I left the cap in place a wired a replacement on top of it
(not beautiful, but easily "restored" to "original").

I still wouldn't go thru a radio and just replace every metal bathtub cap, the
way you would the wax firecrackers or Black Uglies.

If I somehow found an SX-88, I would insist on using it, often -- so would
recap it and enjoy. My widow will still get her $10 for it either way. --Mike
K.

Oscar loves trash, but hates Spam! Delete him to reply to me.

"JJ" wrote in message
...


If you want if for a shelf queen and never used, then leave it
original,
but if you want to use it (which a fine receiver as this should be),
then by all means recap it, that won't reduce it's value as much as a
burnt out IF can or power transformer because of a bad cap.


Actually, I don't want it, at least at that price. I enjoy fixing up
"affordable" junkers. So my chances of ever having a SX-88 range from
none to slimmer than none.

It's worth remembering that the SX-88, while expensive, was hardly the
most expensive radio of the mid 50s. The Hammarlund SP-600 and Collins
51Js were in the $900+ class. Hallicrafters sold the SX-73 in the $900
+ class a few years before. No doubt Bill Halligan saw a hole at the
$600 price point and decided to make a radio to fill it. But the $600
SX-88 didn't take over the market of the more expensive radios, nor was
it cloned by the other manufacturers. I've never used any of these
radios, but the guys who spending big bucks for radios back then weren't
buying many SX-88.

That's what starts me thinking that the SX-88 is more than just a radio.
Hallicrafters bought alot of advertising in the 50s, and I'm sure alot
of kids who were saving their paper route money to buy the S-38 were
drooling over all those Hallicrafters ads with the S-85s, the SX-96s and
that beautiful, unobtainable SX-88.

For alot of those grown up kids, coming up with a few grand is now
easier than coming up with sixty bucks was, almost fifty years ago.

I don't have any compelling reason to chase after the elusive SX-88.
The other high end radios of the mid 50s seem like they'd perform at
least as well.

But if I ever pick up a pristine SX-88 at a hamfest for $100, it would
be, not a shelf queen, but a shelf princess, waiting for the prince to
take her to the castle. No new caps, maybe no AC. I'd preserve it for
the guys who see that there's more than a radio in a SX-88.

Frank Dresser