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They use them in guitar amps for the way they transition into distortion,
tone The RCA with the black plates do sound totally different, they are going after specific tubes made by spacific factorys , spacific years They ID them by plates, getters, tops, logos. A set of domestic GE 6CA7's or RCA 6V6's is a hard find in 2006. All the Eastern block and Chinese (fancy silkscreen reliable Groove Tubes) just sound lousy or short You cant run them in a classic Marshall JTM 45 and play Led Zepplin.........even if you turn down to 11. Some of these rock and roll and Bass guitar amps like a 70's Ampeg SVT are very hard on tubes, who needs a failure in the middle of a show or have lug a spare 90 pound beast around. Check out the prices on Telefunken 12AX7's, GE 6550's and British KT-88's.......OUCH ! -Joe "funkbastler" wrote in message ... Somebody please clue me in about what's going on. A pair of 6CA7's just went for $203. Earlier today, a pair of 6SN7's went for over $300 (I missed out on checking the final price). I get the impression that people are collecting these, and the color of the base, or the shape of the getter, or *whatever* is very important (to them) in determining the value. Can anyone really tell the difference in the way 6SN7's by RCA/Sylvania/Dumont/etc sound in a preamp? Does a brown base impart better tonal qualities than a black base, or is it the other way around? Tell me what's driving these ridiculous prices.... I may be sitting on a gold mine here and not know it. -- -fb- |
Joe wrote: They use them in guitar amps for the way they transition into distortion, tone The RCA with the black plates do sound totally different, they are going after specific tubes made by spacific factorys , spacific years They ID them by plates, getters, tops, logos. A set of domestic GE 6CA7's or RCA 6V6's is a hard find in 2006. All the Eastern block and Chinese (fancy silkscreen reliable Groove Tubes) just sound lousy or short You cant run them in a classic Marshall JTM 45 and play Led Zepplin.........even if you turn down to 11. Some of these rock and roll and Bass guitar amps like a 70's Ampeg SVT are very hard on tubes, who needs a failure in the middle of a show or have lug a spare 90 pound beast around. Check out the prices on Telefunken 12AX7's, GE 6550's and British KT-88's.......OUCH ! -Joe "funkbastler" wrote in message ... Somebody please clue me in about what's going on. A pair of 6CA7's just went for $203. Earlier today, a pair of 6SN7's went for over $300 (I missed out on checking the final price). I get the impression that people are collecting these, and the color of the base, or the shape of the getter, or *whatever* is very important (to them) in determining the value. Can anyone really tell the difference in the way 6SN7's by RCA/Sylvania/Dumont/etc sound in a preamp? Does a brown base impart better tonal qualities than a black base, or is it the other way around? Tell me what's driving these ridiculous prices.... I may be sitting on a gold mine here and not know it. -- -fb- Its also very much a vanity thing. The well-eared gang claim to hear subtle differences (always an improvement) in certain tubes and will pay dearly for them...if for no other reason than bragging rights. And then some tubes have a better proven reliability when stretched to abuse - as Joe sez. I can't hear these differences so to me any 6SN7 will always be just another old TV set tube and anything more than $2/pair is excessive. If you fancy yourself to be a seller in that market be prepared to have on hand a $500 tube tester sitting somewhere to validate your claims and a tonne of otherwise-useless BS writing skills. Do some research and find out which ones sell and go for it. That research and effort is what the deep-pocketed audio buyer is ultimately paying for. \ -ex |
The price of tubes on ebay
Somebody please clue me in about what's going on. A pair
of 6CA7's just went for $203. Earlier today, a pair of 6SN7's went for over $300 (I missed out on checking the final price). I get the impression that people are collecting these, and the color of the base, or the shape of the getter, or *whatever* is very important (to them) in determining the value. Can anyone really tell the difference in the way 6SN7's by RCA/Sylvania/Dumont/etc sound in a preamp? Does a brown base impart better tonal qualities than a black base, or is it the other way around? Tell me what's driving these ridiculous prices.... I may be sitting on a gold mine here and not know it. -- -fb- |
Behold, funkbastler scribed on tube chassis:
Somebody please clue me in about what's going on. A pair of 6CA7's just went for $203. Earlier today, a pair of 6SN7's went for over $300 (I missed out on checking the final price). I get the impression that people are collecting these, and the color of the base, or the shape of the getter, or *whatever* is very important (to them) in determining the value. Can anyone really tell the difference in the way 6SN7's by RCA/Sylvania/Dumont/etc sound in a preamp? Does a brown base impart better tonal qualities than a black base, or is it the other way around? Tell me what's driving these ridiculous prices.... I may be sitting on a gold mine here and not know it. Audiophoolery. Tubes like that between experienced developers go for 1/50 the price. Checkout "oldconvent" or Gintaras at KWTUBES - real men, no phools ;-) -- Gregg "t3h g33k" http://geek.scorpiorising.ca *Ratings are for transistors, tubes have guidelines* |
Gregg wrote:
Behold, funkbastler scribed on tube chassis: Somebody please clue me in about what's going on. A pair of 6CA7's just went for $203. Earlier today, a pair of 6SN7's went for over $300 (I missed out on checking the final price). I get the impression that people are collecting these, and the color of the base, or the shape of the getter, or *whatever* is very important (to them) in determining the value. Can anyone really tell the difference in the way 6SN7's by RCA/Sylvania/Dumont/etc sound in a preamp? Does a brown base impart better tonal qualities than a black base, or is it the other way around? Tell me what's driving these ridiculous prices.... I may be sitting on a gold mine here and not know it. Audiophoolery. Tubes like that between experienced developers go for 1/50 the price. Checkout "oldconvent" or Gintaras at KWTUBES - real men, no phools ;-) The audiophools have money and no common sense what-so-ever. |
"funkbastler" wrote in message ... On Wed, 01 Jun 2005 22:08:57 -0400, -ex- wrote: Its also very much a vanity thing. The well-eared gang claim to hear subtle differences (always an improvement) in certain tubes and will pay dearly for them...if for no other reason than bragging rights. And then some tubes have a better proven reliability when stretched to abuse - as Joe sez. Sounds like we're dealing with the same folks who think "monster cable" makes their system sound better. -- -fb- Those folks also never allow an objective A/B test to cloud their thinking. Oh well, a fool and his money are soon parted. |
On Wed, 01 Jun 2005 22:08:57 -0400, -ex- wrote:
Its also very much a vanity thing. The well-eared gang claim to hear subtle differences (always an improvement) in certain tubes and will pay dearly for them...if for no other reason than bragging rights. And then some tubes have a better proven reliability when stretched to abuse - as Joe sez. Sounds like we're dealing with the same folks who think "monster cable" makes their system sound better. -- -fb- |
Sounds like we're dealing with the same folks who think "monster cable" makes their system sound better. It does! Particularly with higher currents. Although I never fell for the clear insulation that acts as a magnifier and makes the wire look much bigger. The difference between 22# and 14# is noticeable when making a side by side comparison. Even on a car stereo. Makes a big difference with my trailer lights too! Anyone have a list of these golden tubes? I just put REL 811a set in my linear and it seems to work just fine. I have (1)ea. new RCA JAN 811a if anyone is interested. -- AC6TK http://tekstuff.freespaces.com |
I have never met an audiophile who wasnt an idiot, these guys are driving up
the prices for the guys who really need NOS tubes to make a living that pays crap to begin with. *&^%$# Yuppies ! -Joe "funkbastler" wrote in message ... Sounds like we're dealing with the same folks who think "monster cable" makes their system sound better. -- -fb- |
On Thu, 2 Jun 2005 08:29:42 -0700, "JB" wrote:
Sounds like we're dealing with the same folks who think "monster cable" makes their system sound better. It does! Particularly with higher currents. Although I never fell for the clear insulation that acts as a magnifier and makes the wire look much bigger. The difference between 22# and 14# is noticeable when making a side by side comparison. Even on a car stereo. Makes a big difference with my trailer lights too! Well, let's not confuse monster wire with plain ol' large-gauge wire. Anyone have a list of these golden tubes? I just put REL 811a set in my linear and it seems to work just fine. I have (1)ea. new RCA JAN 811a if anyone is interested. Dang! Was kinda lookin for one to use in a linear to hang on the output end of my IC-703, but ended up buying an AL-811. Now I have an L-4B I need to get rid of. -- -fb- |
Dave Stadt wrote:
"funkbastler" wrote in message ... On Wed, 01 Jun 2005 22:08:57 -0400, -ex- wrote: Its also very much a vanity thing. The well-eared gang claim to hear subtle differences (always an improvement) in certain tubes and will pay dearly for them...if for no other reason than bragging rights. And then some tubes have a better proven reliability when stretched to abuse - as Joe sez. Sounds like we're dealing with the same folks who think "monster cable" makes their system sound better. Those folks also never allow an objective A/B test to cloud their thinking. Oh well, a fool and his money are soon parted. Oxygen-free cable for oxygen-free brains. It seems to fit. -- My S.O. asked me why there wasn't a Microsoft-brand antivirus, then immediately said, "Oh, of course. If they can't fix the OS, you'd be crazy to buy their antivirus as an add-on." -- Kevin Martin |
Mike Andrews wrote:
Sounds like we're dealing with the same folks who think "monster cable" makes their system sound better. Those folks also never allow an objective A/B test to cloud their thinking. Oh well, a fool and his money are soon parted. Oxygen-free cable for oxygen-free brains. It seems to fit. The Oxygen-free feature of copper wire is about enhanced flexibility, and improved resistance to breaking. Oxygen free copper wire in power cords and speaker wires lasts longer. -Chuck |
Behold, Chuck Harris scribed on tube chassis:
Mike Andrews wrote: Sounds like we're dealing with the same folks who think "monster cable" makes their system sound better. Those folks also never allow an objective A/B test to cloud their thinking. Oh well, a fool and his money are soon parted. Oxygen-free cable for oxygen-free brains. It seems to fit. The Oxygen-free feature of copper wire is about enhanced flexibility, and improved resistance to breaking. Oxygen free copper wire in power cords and speaker wires lasts longer. -Chuck Ummmmmm, question? If kept dry, both will last until long after we die. Is this not a moot point? -- Gregg "t3h g33k" http://geek.scorpiorising.ca *Ratings are for transistors, tubes have guidelines* |
Gregg wrote:
Behold, Chuck Harris scribed on tube chassis: The Oxygen-free feature of copper wire is about enhanced flexibility, and improved resistance to breaking. Oxygen free copper wire in power cords and speaker wires lasts longer. -Chuck Ummmmmm, question? If kept dry, both will last until long after we die. Is this not a moot point? Mostly true, the biggest advantage to oxygen free copper is in applications where the cord gets daily flexing, think of all the times you have found a broken spot in the cord on an iron, vacuum cleaner or shaver. With oxygen free wire, it is supposed to last longer. -Chuck |
Tubes for audiophiles get bid up in strange ways. I once bought a random box of tubes on Ebay because it had a couple of tubes I needed in it. But the seller tossed in all his junkers. Turned out that there were 10 or so TungSol 6SN7s in the box-- dirty, but tested fine. I put them back up on Ebay in the audio group and they sold for about $10 each. 30 years ago, I helped the University of Washington clean out the old electrical engineering building and we tossed out 10's of thousands of tubes in pallet loads. No one was allowed to scrounge, although some of the professors packed away stuff in their car trunks. Clean out your old dustbins-- might be cash there. -- Steven D. Swift, , http://www.novatech-instr.com NOVATECH INSTRUMENTS, INC. P.O. Box 55997 206.301.8986, fax 206.363.4367 Seattle, Washington 98155 USA |
HPGrn wrote:
On Fri, 03 Jun 2005 14:08:43 -0400, Chuck Harris wrote: cords and speaker wires lasts longer. -Chuck Chuck, "...lasts longer." Can you provide more specifics? Comparison figures, etc. Thanks and awaiting enlightenment. I doubt there is any data to support that, it just that the audiophools fall for the hype hook, line, and sinker while the folks that sell the stuff to them laugh all the way to the bank. |
On Fri, 03 Jun 2005 14:08:43 -0400, Chuck Harris
wrote: cords and speaker wires lasts longer. -Chuck Chuck, "...lasts longer." Can you provide more specifics? Comparison figures, etc. Thanks and awaiting enlightenment. |
Cmd Buzz Corey wrote:
HPGrn wrote: On Fri, 03 Jun 2005 14:08:43 -0400, Chuck Harris wrote: cords and speaker wires lasts longer. -Chuck Chuck, "...lasts longer." Can you provide more specifics? Comparison figures, etc. Thanks and awaiting enlightenment. I doubt there is any data to support that, it just that the audiophools fall for the hype hook, line, and sinker while the folks that sell the stuff to them laugh all the way to the bank. Buzz, audiophools don't buy the mass marketed IEC standard power cords, such as are used on your PC, but they are all "oxygen-free" copper wire. This is a standard feature of modern copper wire manufacture. -Chuck |
funkbastler wrote:
Ever seen the stuff used on arc welders? Big bundles of very fine strands, with a soft rubber (or rubber-like material) jacket. Lasts a long, long time, doesn't break with flexing, and it's not low- oxygen. Just imagine how long it would last if it were low-oxygen :) -ex |
On Fri, 03 Jun 2005 14:08:43 -0400, Chuck Harris
wrote: The Oxygen-free feature of copper wire is about enhanced flexibility, and improved resistance to breaking. Oxygen free copper wire in power cords and speaker wires lasts longer. Ever seen the stuff used on arc welders? Big bundles of very fine strands, with a soft rubber (or rubber-like material) jacket. Lasts a long, long time, doesn't break with flexing, and it's not low- oxygen. -- -fb- |
Chuck Harris wrote:
Mostly true, the biggest advantage to oxygen free copper is in applications where the cord gets daily flexing, think of all the times you have found a broken spot in the cord on an iron, vacuum cleaner or shaver. With oxygen free wire, it is supposed to last longer. -Chuck Of all the vacuum cleaners and shavers I have ever owned, don't think I have ever found a broken spot on the cord. If fact, the cord usually outlast the device. Oxygen free is just for the audiophools to spend outrageous amounts of money on for nothing. |
funkbastler wrote:
On Fri, 03 Jun 2005 14:08:43 -0400, Chuck Harris wrote: The Oxygen-free feature of copper wire is about enhanced flexibility, and improved resistance to breaking. Oxygen free copper wire in power cords and speaker wires lasts longer. Ever seen the stuff used on arc welders? Big bundles of very fine strands, with a soft rubber (or rubber-like material) jacket. Lasts a long, long time, doesn't break with flexing, and it's not low- oxygen. Really? How would you know that? Given that all of the copper wire manufacturers these days have switched over to oxygen-free manufacturing techniques for their copper products. OBTW, my welding cables fray like the dickens on the connector ends. I have had to reattach the connectors on the stinger side twice now. But then, I actually use them. All "no oxygen" means is the copper was smelted in a way that prevents the inclusion of oxides in the copper. It is a pure, soft copper. It makes a slightly lower resistance wire than the earlier copper smelting precesses. Being softer, oxygen-free copper can be worked more, and doesn't wear out tooling as quickly as ordinary copper. Or did you think that it took a highly spiritual audiophool to hold his breath while blessing the wire? Here are some definitely non audiophool companies that make oxygen free copper products: http://www.shanghaimetal.com/Copper_tube_terminal.htm http://www.tatung.com/wire/e-copper.html -Chuck |
funkbastler wrote:
On Sat, 04 Jun 2005 09:30:13 -0400, Chuck Harris wrote: Ever seen the stuff used on arc welders? Big bundles of very fine strands, with a soft rubber (or rubber-like material) jacket. Lasts a long, long time, doesn't break with flexing, and it's not low- oxygen. Really? How would you know that? Given that all of the copper wire manufacturers these days have switched over to oxygen-free manufacturing techniques for their copper products. Could be - but I don't see welding cable being hyped as "low-oxygen" or "oxygen-free" in an effort to convince the welding community that its use will produce better welds or make the cables last longer. You are getting there! What I have been trying to get through to you, and others, is oxygen-free isn't something the copper wire/rod/tubing manufacturers spend a lot of time bragging up. It is just a natural step in the evolution of the copper manufacturing process. OBTW, my welding cables fray like the dickens on the connector ends. I have had to reattach the connectors on the stinger side twice now. But then, I actually use them. Maybe you should switch to oxygen-free cable. It won't fray or break or corrode. Ever. How do you come to that conclusion? Just because something is better, doesn't mean it is perfect. Only problem I've had with mine (only 12 years old) was due to an unfortunate incident with the lawn mower :-( That could be quite exciting if your welder was fired up at the time! All "no oxygen" means is the copper was smelted in a way that prevents the inclusion of oxides in the copper. It is a pure, soft copper. It makes a slightly lower resistance wire than the earlier copper smelting precesses. Being softer, oxygen-free copper can be worked more, and doesn't wear out tooling as quickly as ordinary copper. Interesting article he http://www.copper.org/innovations/19...etallurgy.html Looks like having at least a little bit of oxygen is a *good* thing. If your copper contains impurities, yes. The oxygen helps oxidize those impurities, and allows them to come to the surface of castings. I'm headed for the store now to see if they have any oxygen-free Romex... Need to rewire the house. How do you know that the Romex you buy isn't oxygen-free? It isn't really important for an electrician to know whether it is, or isn't. Enhanced flexibility is useful when you are trying to install fixtures in their boxes. Oh, I get it, you think I am an audiophoole, and you are just trying to make fun of me. My, isn't that special! -Chuck |
funkbastler wrote:
On Sat, 04 Jun 2005 09:30:13 -0400, Chuck Harris wrote: Ever seen the stuff used on arc welders? Big bundles of very fine strands, with a soft rubber (or rubber-like material) jacket. Lasts a long, long time, doesn't break with flexing, and it's not low- oxygen. Really? How would you know that? Given that all of the copper wire manufacturers these days have switched over to oxygen-free manufacturing techniques for their copper products. Could be - but I don't see welding cable being hyped as "low-oxygen" or "oxygen-free" in an effort to convince the welding community that its use will produce better welds or make the cables last longer. Yes, but I assure you that if Lincoln could get away with it, they would say just that. Because that's the way marketing works, and marketing sells products unfortunately. I don't know about other manufacturers, but the West Penn welding cable is definitely OFC. It's good stuff. OBTW, my welding cables fray like the dickens on the connector ends. I have had to reattach the connectors on the stinger side twice now. But then, I actually use them. Maybe you should switch to oxygen-free cable. It won't fray or break or corrode. Ever. He's probably using it already. But he might consider using dielectric grease on the ends which seems to help a lot. The clamp connections are really not mechanically all that sturdy even though they are electrically solid, and sometimes some 1" heatshrink can do wonders. Interesting article he http://www.copper.org/innovations/19...etallurgy.html Looks like having at least a little bit of oxygen is a *good* thing. Again, depends on the application. And for hard-drawn copper the issues are very different than for soft-drawn wire. I'm headed for the store now to see if they have any oxygen-free Romex... Need to rewire the house. Romex is one of the places where higher conductivity is important (since Romex is really lousy at heat dissipation) and flexibility is a total non-issue (since it should only be flexed a couple times during installation). Romex is VERY different than an SJ-type cable and is usually made with much more brittle wire. --scott -- "C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis." |
Cmd Buzz Corey wrote:
Chuck Harris wrote: Mostly true, the biggest advantage to oxygen free copper is in applications where the cord gets daily flexing, think of all the times you have found a broken spot in the cord on an iron, vacuum cleaner or shaver. With oxygen free wire, it is supposed to last longer. Of all the vacuum cleaners and shavers I have ever owned, don't think I have ever found a broken spot on the cord. If fact, the cord usually outlast the device. That's probably because you take care of the cord. Although actually most of the vacuum cleaner cord failures are at the connector ends, and are usually because SOME people unplug the thing by pulling on the cord and eventually weaken the connection at the plug. Oxygen free is just for the audiophools to spend outrageous amounts of money on for nothing. You'd be surprised how much commercial cable today is OFC. They might not advertise it, but if you're buying cordage today it's almost certainly made with OFC material. --scott -- "C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis." |
Cmd Buzz Corey wrote:
Chuck Harris wrote: Mostly true, the biggest advantage to oxygen free copper is in applications where the cord gets daily flexing, think of all the times you have found a broken spot in the cord on an iron, vacuum cleaner or shaver. With oxygen free wire, it is supposed to last longer. -Chuck Of all the vacuum cleaners and shavers I have ever owned, don't think I have ever found a broken spot on the cord. If fact, the cord usually outlast the device. Either you lead a charmed life, or you must not keep appliances for more than a few years Oxygen free is just for the audiophools to spend outrageous amounts of money on for nothing. Buzz, the depth of your lack of knowledge is simply staggering. -Chuck |
On Sat, 04 Jun 2005 09:30:13 -0400, Chuck Harris
wrote: Ever seen the stuff used on arc welders? Big bundles of very fine strands, with a soft rubber (or rubber-like material) jacket. Lasts a long, long time, doesn't break with flexing, and it's not low- oxygen. Really? How would you know that? Given that all of the copper wire manufacturers these days have switched over to oxygen-free manufacturing techniques for their copper products. Could be - but I don't see welding cable being hyped as "low-oxygen" or "oxygen-free" in an effort to convince the welding community that its use will produce better welds or make the cables last longer. OBTW, my welding cables fray like the dickens on the connector ends. I have had to reattach the connectors on the stinger side twice now. But then, I actually use them. Maybe you should switch to oxygen-free cable. It won't fray or break or corrode. Ever. Only problem I've had with mine (only 12 years old) was due to an unfortunate incident with the lawn mower :-( All "no oxygen" means is the copper was smelted in a way that prevents the inclusion of oxides in the copper. It is a pure, soft copper. It makes a slightly lower resistance wire than the earlier copper smelting precesses. Being softer, oxygen-free copper can be worked more, and doesn't wear out tooling as quickly as ordinary copper. Interesting article he http://www.copper.org/innovations/19...etallurgy.html Looks like having at least a little bit of oxygen is a *good* thing. Or did you think that it took a highly spiritual audiophool to hold his breath while blessing the wire? No, but if that was a public event, I'd sure buy a ticket. Here are some definitely non audiophool companies that make oxygen free copper products: http://www.shanghaimetal.com/Copper_tube_terminal.htm http://www.tatung.com/wire/e-copper.html -Chuck I'm headed for the store now to see if they have any oxygen-free Romex... Need to rewire the house. -- -fb- |
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