I received an old HRO from some jerk in VE land (nothing against VE's) that
packed my receiver inside a flimsy cardboard toilet paper carton with empty,
capped juice bottles between the rig and the box (Welch's Grape I believe).
They had mold inside from the residual juice which had remained when
emptied. Let me tell you - that box stunk terribly. Some of the caps were
loose and the bottles were not air tight. Naturally, the main tuning knob
had been bashed into the front panel when all the juice bottles had shifted
during shipment. It was a mess. If I could have gotten my hands on that
fellow it would not have been nice.
Roger, KL7Q

Bill Powell wrote in message
...
To-date, I have found VERY FEW (eBay) people who have the FOGGIEST
idea of how to properly pack a boatanchor. Especially the "trust me -
I'm an eBay professional" types.
So... I've been insisting on (and paying for) double boxing and heavy
cardboard boxes.
However. . . The "Joe Average" average double-box job can (usually)
lead to a crunched front panel - or worse.
A Knight transmitter I recently received was double-boxed with the
inner cushioned from the outer with a 1.5" layer of peanuts. However,
the front-panel of the transmitter had been stood off the side of the
inner box with a thick sheet of solid, hard styrofoam.
Right now I'm assuming that the "locked" shafts are simply due to the
knobs being scrunched just a little bit tighter against the front
panel than they should be.
I hope.

OTOH, a Johnson Viking Valiant (just add chain - no concrete required)
I received was so well packed that despite being dropped, the only
things amiss were a "floating" audio interstage under the chassis and
severely bent mountings on the mod transformer: absolutely NO front
panel damage or tube breakage!

My quest for knowledge:
Has anyone here tried DIY foam-in-place?
I'm talking about embalming the hunk-o-iron in double heavy duty
trashbags, shooting "some" (think of a kid with a can of whipped
cream) of the DIY spray-in foam insulation into the 4 corners of the
inner box and then setting the bagged anchor into the mess till it
sets. A follow-up would (hopefully) lock the bagged goodie
more-or-less into the middle of the box.
Or am I just gonna make a nasty mess?

TIA,
Bill - WB1GOT

Oh - getting the thing back out is someone elses problem. :-)

FWIW, I have never seen anything damaged that was wrapped in at least 4
layers of LARGE type bubble wrap. No need to double box if you use that
stuff usually.

For ultimate control panel protection, go to a fabric or upholstery shop and
get some high density foam in 4" or 5" thickness and place it over the
control panel. THEN wrap with large bubble wrap. The HD foam is NOT cheap,
however, I paid $12 for a 24" x 24" pc last time I think. But sometimes you
can get smaller scraps for less. The upholstery shops are usually better
about selling stuff under 18" cheap because they cant use it in a regular
chair or couch cushion.

Mark Oppat
"Bill Powell" wrote in message
...
To-date, I have found VERY FEW (eBay) people who have the FOGGIEST
idea of how to properly pack a boatanchor. Especially the "trust me -
I'm an eBay professional" types.
So... I've been insisting on (and paying for) double boxing and heavy
cardboard boxes.
However. . . The "Joe Average" average double-box job can (usually)
lead to a crunched front panel - or worse.
A Knight transmitter I recently received was double-boxed with the
inner cushioned from the outer with a 1.5" layer of peanuts. However,
the front-panel of the transmitter had been stood off the side of the
inner box with a thick sheet of solid, hard styrofoam.
Right now I'm assuming that the "locked" shafts are simply due to the
knobs being scrunched just a little bit tighter against the front
panel than they should be.
I hope.

OTOH, a Johnson Viking Valiant (just add chain - no concrete required)
I received was so well packed that despite being dropped, the only
things amiss were a "floating" audio interstage under the chassis and
severely bent mountings on the mod transformer: absolutely NO front
panel damage or tube breakage!

My quest for knowledge:
Has anyone here tried DIY foam-in-place?
I'm talking about embalming the hunk-o-iron in double heavy duty
trashbags, shooting "some" (think of a kid with a can of whipped
cream) of the DIY spray-in foam insulation into the 4 corners of the
inner box and then setting the bagged anchor into the mess till it
sets. A follow-up would (hopefully) lock the bagged goodie
more-or-less into the middle of the box.
Or am I just gonna make a nasty mess?

TIA,
Bill - WB1GOT

Oh - getting the thing back out is someone elses problem. :-)

Bill, I have 2 (or what's left of them) Valiant I's shipped to me via
common carrier. Neither made the trip. The 2 V-1's that I do have and
that are on the air came from local buys. Of all the equipment I've
bought and sold, I have to say that Valiant's appear to be the most
vulnerable. I've had front panels folded back, VFO drives crunched, all
manner of iron torn loose, ad nausium. Of course, one of these
disasters was preciptiated by a "gentleman from the South" using old
boat cushions as packing (sic) material. EFJ crated factory wired
Valiants for shipment. Probably still a good idea....?
Regards de Jeep/K3HVG

"Bill Powell" wrote in message
...
My quest for knowledge:
Has anyone here tried DIY foam-in-place?
I'm talking about embalming the hunk-o-iron in double heavy duty
trashbags, shooting "some" (think of a kid with a can of whipped
cream) of the DIY spray-in foam insulation into the 4 corners of the
inner box and then setting the bagged anchor into the mess till it
sets. A follow-up would (hopefully) lock the bagged goodie
more-or-less into the middle of the box.
Or am I just gonna make a nasty mess?

TIA,
Bill - WB1GOT

Oh - getting the thing back out is someone elses problem. :-)


TenTec used to, or maybe still does, use the foam method. But as I remember
it, they filled the box just halfway, then set the plastic wrapped rigs in
the foam, covered it and the lower foam layer and upper sides of the box
with plastic film, and poured in the top foam layer. Opened like a clam
shell, easy to get out.

I used the original box several times for moving the rig, and I know that
the fellow I finally sold it to used it the same way. I copied the
technique several times on a smaller scale for shipping fragile stuff.

Marty - K1FHR

Bill Powell wrote:
To-date, I have found VERY FEW (eBay) people who have the FOGGIEST
idea of how to properly pack a boatanchor. Especially the "trust me -
I'm an eBay professional" types.
So... I've been insisting on (and paying for) double boxing and heavy
cardboard boxes.
However. . . The "Joe Average" average double-box job can (usually)
lead to a crunched front panel - or worse.
A Knight transmitter I recently received was double-boxed with the
inner cushioned from the outer with a 1.5" layer of peanuts. However,
the front-panel of the transmitter had been stood off the side of the
inner box with a thick sheet of solid, hard styrofoam.
Right now I'm assuming that the "locked" shafts are simply due to the
knobs being scrunched just a little bit tighter against the front
panel than they should be.
I hope.

So do I, but I fear worse.

OTOH, a Johnson Viking Valiant (just add chain - no concrete required)
I received was so well packed that despite being dropped, the only
things amiss were a "floating" audio interstage under the chassis and
severely bent mountings on the mod transformer: absolutely NO front
panel damage or tube breakage!

"[S]everely bent mountings on the mod transformer" would raise my ire
somewhat.

My quest for knowledge:
Has anyone here tried DIY foam-in-place?
I'm talking about embalming the hunk-o-iron in double heavy duty
trashbags, shooting "some" (think of a kid with a can of whipped
cream) of the DIY spray-in foam insulation into the 4 corners of the
inner box and then setting the bagged anchor into the mess till it
sets. A follow-up would (hopefully) lock the bagged goodie
more-or-less into the middle of the box.
Or am I just gonna make a nasty mess?

FIRST, and * I M P O R T A N T *

Cut sections of mailing tube (appropriate diameter) to
go over each knob, so that the front panel bears the
load, not the knob and the 'spensive stuff attached to
it.

SECOND, and JUST AS IMPORTANT

Cut sections of mailing tube (appropriate diameter) to
go over the connectors and other projections on the back
(and sides, and top, and bottom), so that the panels bear
the load, not the 'spensive stuff sticking out. Use mailing
tube sections to brace transformers and other heavy items
on the inside where possible. Consider taping tube shields
and other items which might come loose.

THIRD,

Put the rig in a tri-wall box and then foam that
sucker using the foam-in-bags stuff that I've seen
a few times now. Get another tri-wall box that'll
hold the first one with room for 1" or 1.5" sheets
of resilient foam between the inside and outside
boxes on all sides.

FOURTH,

Use solid sheets of resilient foam between the
inner and outer boxes. Don't use peanuts or other
small pieces of crushable material, as they'll
shift and leave some parts of the gap between
boxes unprotected. The inner box should fit
*exactly* inside the outer box and foam sheets.
Use additional sheets of foam to fill in any gaps.

FIFTH,

Securely tape all joints and flaps on the inner
and outer boxes. Consider making a wood frame
around the outer box.

Yes, it's overkill. I figure that overkill when shipping boatanchors
is just about right.

--
Mike Andrews

Tired old sysadmin

Bill Powell wrote:

To-date, I have found VERY FEW (eBay) people who have the FOGGIEST
idea of how to properly pack a boatanchor. Especially the "trust me -
I'm an eBay professional" types.
So... I've been insisting on (and paying for) double boxing and heavy
cardboard boxes.

Well, you're the exception.
You priced packing material lately?
And please, guys- don't start with "the stores give it away,"
cuz it ain't so around here. You can get arrested for
retrieving boxes from the dumpster. I've asked several stores
and they quote "liability concerns." Wal-Mart will still give
you boxes, but they don't usually have good sizes or
strong-walled boxes. If you want *good, sturdy* boxes,
you still have to buy them and they aren't cheap.

I get tired of whines about packing fees.
I don't have a problem with packing well;
I *DO* have a problem getting people to
accept the fact that packing an ART-13 transmitter
or a DX-100 can easily cost $12-$14 or more.
And if you try to double-box a biggie,
you can easily box yourself right out of
USPS or UPS. Truck or bus is risky, expensive
and a show-stopper for most buyers.

Nothing is free, and that includes packing.
I add a piddling $1-$2 to my auctions to help defer
the packing costs (that's about a third to a half of
what it actually costs me),
and people still whine and complain about it.

D.S.

Guys,

I've received my share of broken radios due to poor packing.
In one case, I bought a pair of scarce Canadian-market-only
1960s Hallicrafters mobile CB radios from a fellow in VE7.
He put the two radios into a box with NO packing materials,
taped it shut, and UPS'ed it to me! Needless to say, both
radios were damaged beyond salvage. There was no electrical
damage, but ALL of the knobs and switches were broken, the
plastic front panels were broken, the steel cabinets were
dented, and the mic heads were cracked. My nice SX-101A
arrived with the glass smashed because the seller packed it
in stiff styrofoam that had absolutely no shock absorbency.
Same thing with an S-107; the glass dial was shattered. I
eventually repaired both of those receivers, but it never
should have been necessary. I've gotten lucky with a lot
of gear, but obviously not all the time. It's a crap shoot
at best. Shipping companies have no respect.

But wait... all is no lost!

I have a suggestion for shipping large and/or heavy BA gear:
ship it by motor freight! This is nothing new, but so many
of our ham brethren don't even think of it.

Get out the Yellow Pages and call around to determine the
best cost and shipping times. Pack the gear carefully in a
sturdy cardboard box with plenty of shock-absorbent material
all the way around, take the box to the trucking company and
have them strap it to a wooden pallet for shipment. Do make
sure the box is centered on the pallet.

With the box centered on a pallet, no other packages will get
bashed into yours, no humans will pick up your package and
toss it onto a conveyor belt, into a truck, or onto a plane,
and if you specify that no other pallets may be stacked on
top of yours, it can't get crushed from above. No damage!

This method will be rather costly, but the alternative is the
risk of having an irreplaceable piece of equipment damaged or
destroyed. No matter how well you THINK your equipment is
packed, if you ship via a normal shipper, there is still a
high probability that it'll be damaged in transit. How much
is that gear worth to you? Are you willing to risk it?

At work, we have completely stopped using FedEx, UPS, DHL,
and the other overnight shippers to transport our electronic
equipment because they were damaging 75% of our shipments.
Sure, they always pay the insurance claim, but in the mean
time, the production line is stopped until we the equipment
is repaired (which can't be done until the insurance claim
is paid!). Since we changed to motor freight shipment, we
have had ZERO damage! The extra cost is worth it.

73,
Dean K5DH

I received an old HRO from some jerk in VE land (nothing against VE's) that
packed my receiver inside a flimsy cardboard toilet paper carton with empty,
capped juice bottles between the rig and the box (Welch's Grape I believe).
They had mold inside from the residual juice which had remained when
emptied. Let me tell you - that box stunk terribly. Some of the caps were
loose and the bottles were not air tight. Naturally, the main tuning knob
had been bashed into the front panel when all the juice bottles had shifted
during shipment. It was a mess. If I could have gotten my hands on that
fellow it would not have been nice.
Roger, KL7Q

Bill Powell wrote in message
...
To-date, I have found VERY FEW (eBay) people who have the FOGGIEST
idea of how to properly pack a boatanchor. Especially the "trust me -
I'm an eBay professional" types.
So... I've been insisting on (and paying for) double boxing and heavy
cardboard boxes.
However. . . The "Joe Average" average double-box job can (usually)
lead to a crunched front panel - or worse.
A Knight transmitter I recently received was double-boxed with the
inner cushioned from the outer with a 1.5" layer of peanuts. However,
the front-panel of the transmitter had been stood off the side of the
inner box with a thick sheet of solid, hard styrofoam.
Right now I'm assuming that the "locked" shafts are simply due to the
knobs being scrunched just a little bit tighter against the front
panel than they should be.
I hope.

OTOH, a Johnson Viking Valiant (just add chain - no concrete required)
I received was so well packed that despite being dropped, the only
things amiss were a "floating" audio interstage under the chassis and
severely bent mountings on the mod transformer: absolutely NO front
panel damage or tube breakage!

My quest for knowledge:
Has anyone here tried DIY foam-in-place?
I'm talking about embalming the hunk-o-iron in double heavy duty
trashbags, shooting "some" (think of a kid with a can of whipped
cream) of the DIY spray-in foam insulation into the 4 corners of the
inner box and then setting the bagged anchor into the mess till it
sets. A follow-up would (hopefully) lock the bagged goodie
more-or-less into the middle of the box.
Or am I just gonna make a nasty mess?

TIA,
Bill - WB1GOT

Oh - getting the thing back out is someone elses problem. :-)

FWIW, I have never seen anything damaged that was wrapped in at least 4
layers of LARGE type bubble wrap. No need to double box if you use that
stuff usually.

For ultimate control panel protection, go to a fabric or upholstery shop and
get some high density foam in 4" or 5" thickness and place it over the
control panel. THEN wrap with large bubble wrap. The HD foam is NOT cheap,
however, I paid $12 for a 24" x 24" pc last time I think. But sometimes you
can get smaller scraps for less. The upholstery shops are usually better
about selling stuff under 18" cheap because they cant use it in a regular
chair or couch cushion.

Mark Oppat
"Bill Powell" wrote in message
...
To-date, I have found VERY FEW (eBay) people who have the FOGGIEST
idea of how to properly pack a boatanchor. Especially the "trust me -
I'm an eBay professional" types.
So... I've been insisting on (and paying for) double boxing and heavy
cardboard boxes.
However. . . The "Joe Average" average double-box job can (usually)
lead to a crunched front panel - or worse.
A Knight transmitter I recently received was double-boxed with the
inner cushioned from the outer with a 1.5" layer of peanuts. However,
the front-panel of the transmitter had been stood off the side of the
inner box with a thick sheet of solid, hard styrofoam.
Right now I'm assuming that the "locked" shafts are simply due to the
knobs being scrunched just a little bit tighter against the front
panel than they should be.
I hope.

OTOH, a Johnson Viking Valiant (just add chain - no concrete required)
I received was so well packed that despite being dropped, the only
things amiss were a "floating" audio interstage under the chassis and
severely bent mountings on the mod transformer: absolutely NO front
panel damage or tube breakage!

My quest for knowledge:
Has anyone here tried DIY foam-in-place?
I'm talking about embalming the hunk-o-iron in double heavy duty
trashbags, shooting "some" (think of a kid with a can of whipped
cream) of the DIY spray-in foam insulation into the 4 corners of the
inner box and then setting the bagged anchor into the mess till it
sets. A follow-up would (hopefully) lock the bagged goodie
more-or-less into the middle of the box.
Or am I just gonna make a nasty mess?

TIA,
Bill - WB1GOT

Oh - getting the thing back out is someone elses problem. :-)