Wrong S-meter in Hallicrafters SX-28?
 

Am I nuts, or did somebody stick the wrong Hallicrafters S-meter in my
SX-28?

My other (restored) SX-28 has the "backwards" meter, meaning that it rests
to the right when the power's off. When you power up, it moves to far left
at no signal, then deflects to the right under signal.

In the SX-28 I'm currently working on, the meter behaves like an ordinary
("non-backwards") meter you'd get at Radio Shack. It rests to the left when
the power's off. When you power up, it moves to the right, then deflects to
the left under signal. Here are a couple of photos.

The first photo shows the set tuned to no signal (RF Gain turned all the way
down), resting around the midpoint.

http://antiqueradio.org/art/temp/SX-28MeterNoSignal.jpg

The second shot shows the set tuned to a strong local signal (RF Gain turned
up), deflecting full left.

http://antiqueradio.org/art/temp/SX-...FullSignal.jpg

I checked the voltages and connections to the meter, which appear OK. The
resistors leading to the meter are also OK. AVC is working well, and the
S-meter adjustment pot is within spec. The radio's about half-recapped at
this stage. I have done the electrolytics, audio, AVC, and IF caps. Still to
come are the RF & various others.

The markings on this meter look different than the ones on my restored
SX-28, but I had been told by other SX-28 owners that both markings were
used.

The radio's usable in this condition, but . . . funky.

If this is the wrong meter, anybody have a working SX-28 meter you'd like to
trade for it? I assume this one comes from some other (possibly earlier)
Hallicrafters set.

Regards,

Phil Nelson
Phil's Old Radios
http://antiqueradio.org/index.html

Phil:

I did a quick look through Dachis' book, and see no early Hallicrafters receivers with left resting meters. I suspect
someone replaced a failed movement in your original meter with a standard movement. S-meters of that era were likely
standard meters except for the position of the zero. If you study the design of S Meter circuits, and recall that tubes
were the cost driver, a reversed meter movement was the least expensive way out. Screen current on an AVC controlled
tube provided a cheap way to get a meter to move with signal strength, except it was backwards. If you can engage a
meter repair person, that movement can be made right resting, and the leads reversed inside, and you will be back to
where you want to be. Check carefully and see if the leads to the meter are reversed on the back. If they are, then
the second step above is not necessary, just return the wires to their correct locations. But the mechanical internal
adjustment is still required.

--
Crazy George
Remove N O and S P A M imbedded in return address
"Phil Nelson" wrote in message nk.net...
Am I nuts, or did somebody stick the wrong Hallicrafters S-meter in my
SX-28?

My other (restored) SX-28 has the "backwards" meter, meaning that it rests
to the right when the power's off. When you power up, it moves to far left
at no signal, then deflects to the right under signal.

In the SX-28 I'm currently working on, the meter behaves like an ordinary
("non-backwards") meter you'd get at Radio Shack. It rests to the left when
the power's off. When you power up, it moves to the right, then deflects to
the left under signal. Here are a couple of photos.

The first photo shows the set tuned to no signal (RF Gain turned all the way
down), resting around the midpoint.

http://antiqueradio.org/art/temp/SX-28MeterNoSignal.jpg

The second shot shows the set tuned to a strong local signal (RF Gain turned
up), deflecting full left.

http://antiqueradio.org/art/temp/SX-...FullSignal.jpg

I checked the voltages and connections to the meter, which appear OK. The
resistors leading to the meter are also OK. AVC is working well, and the
S-meter adjustment pot is within spec. The radio's about half-recapped at
this stage. I have done the electrolytics, audio, AVC, and IF caps. Still to
come are the RF & various others.

The markings on this meter look different than the ones on my restored
SX-28, but I had been told by other SX-28 owners that both markings were
used.

The radio's usable in this condition, but . . . funky.

If this is the wrong meter, anybody have a working SX-28 meter you'd like to
trade for it? I assume this one comes from some other (possibly earlier)
Hallicrafters set.

Regards,

Phil Nelson
Phil's Old Radios
http://antiqueradio.org/index.html

Phil:

I did a quick look through Dachis' book, and see no early Hallicrafters receivers with left resting meters. I suspect
someone replaced a failed movement in your original meter with a standard movement. S-meters of that era were likely
standard meters except for the position of the zero. If you study the design of S Meter circuits, and recall that tubes
were the cost driver, a reversed meter movement was the least expensive way out. Screen current on an AVC controlled
tube provided a cheap way to get a meter to move with signal strength, except it was backwards. If you can engage a
meter repair person, that movement can be made right resting, and the leads reversed inside, and you will be back to
where you want to be. Check carefully and see if the leads to the meter are reversed on the back. If they are, then
the second step above is not necessary, just return the wires to their correct locations. But the mechanical internal
adjustment is still required.

--
Crazy George
Remove N O and S P A M imbedded in return address
"Phil Nelson" wrote in message nk.net...
Am I nuts, or did somebody stick the wrong Hallicrafters S-meter in my
SX-28?

My other (restored) SX-28 has the "backwards" meter, meaning that it rests
to the right when the power's off. When you power up, it moves to far left
at no signal, then deflects to the right under signal.

In the SX-28 I'm currently working on, the meter behaves like an ordinary
("non-backwards") meter you'd get at Radio Shack. It rests to the left when
the power's off. When you power up, it moves to the right, then deflects to
the left under signal. Here are a couple of photos.

The first photo shows the set tuned to no signal (RF Gain turned all the way
down), resting around the midpoint.

http://antiqueradio.org/art/temp/SX-28MeterNoSignal.jpg

The second shot shows the set tuned to a strong local signal (RF Gain turned
up), deflecting full left.

http://antiqueradio.org/art/temp/SX-...FullSignal.jpg

I checked the voltages and connections to the meter, which appear OK. The
resistors leading to the meter are also OK. AVC is working well, and the
S-meter adjustment pot is within spec. The radio's about half-recapped at
this stage. I have done the electrolytics, audio, AVC, and IF caps. Still to
come are the RF & various others.

The markings on this meter look different than the ones on my restored
SX-28, but I had been told by other SX-28 owners that both markings were
used.

The radio's usable in this condition, but . . . funky.

If this is the wrong meter, anybody have a working SX-28 meter you'd like to
trade for it? I assume this one comes from some other (possibly earlier)
Hallicrafters set.

Regards,

Phil Nelson
Phil's Old Radios
http://antiqueradio.org/index.html

"beerbarrel" wrote in message Your doing #2 now? I
read your story on the first one. I figured after
the RF deck you might not ever get around to the other one. If I get a
chance, I'll hook mine up and see how the needle moves.

think all you'd have to do is see if the needle is resting to the left or
full scale
to the right with radio off.

Phil, SX-28 here in the shop awaiting restoration
has the S meter with the needle at full scale. If the S meter in your set
is
indicating signal strength properly, putting in the "correct" meter might
involve undoing other changes?


Pete

"beerbarrel" wrote in message Your doing #2 now? I
read your story on the first one. I figured after
the RF deck you might not ever get around to the other one. If I get a
chance, I'll hook mine up and see how the needle moves.

think all you'd have to do is see if the needle is resting to the left or
full scale
to the right with radio off.

Phil, SX-28 here in the shop awaiting restoration
has the S meter with the needle at full scale. If the S meter in your set
is
indicating signal strength properly, putting in the "correct" meter might
involve undoing other changes?


Pete

Phil--- Both of my SX28's have right hand off indications. Ihade trouble
with resistor values in both circuits John K3OPC

Phil Nelson wrote:

Am I nuts, or did somebody stick the wrong Hallicrafters S-meter in my
SX-28?

My other (restored) SX-28 has the "backwards" meter, meaning that it rests
to the right when the power's off. When you power up, it moves to far left
at no signal, then deflects to the right under signal.

In the SX-28 I'm currently working on, the meter behaves like an ordinary
("non-backwards") meter you'd get at Radio Shack. It rests to the left when
the power's off. When you power up, it moves to the right, then deflects to
the left under signal. Here are a couple of photos.

The first photo shows the set tuned to no signal (RF Gain turned all the way
down), resting around the midpoint.

http://antiqueradio.org/art/temp/SX-28MeterNoSignal.jpg

The second shot shows the set tuned to a strong local signal (RF Gain turned
up), deflecting full left.

http://antiqueradio.org/art/temp/SX-...FullSignal.jpg

I checked the voltages and connections to the meter, which appear OK. The
resistors leading to the meter are also OK. AVC is working well, and the
S-meter adjustment pot is within spec. The radio's about half-recapped at
this stage. I have done the electrolytics, audio, AVC, and IF caps. Still to
come are the RF & various others.

The markings on this meter look different than the ones on my restored
SX-28, but I had been told by other SX-28 owners that both markings were
used.

The radio's usable in this condition, but . . . funky.

If this is the wrong meter, anybody have a working SX-28 meter you'd like to
trade for it? I assume this one comes from some other (possibly earlier)
Hallicrafters set.

Regards,

Phil Nelson
Phil's Old Radios
http://antiqueradio.org/index.html

Phil--- Both of my SX28's have right hand off indications. Ihade trouble
with resistor values in both circuits John K3OPC

Phil Nelson wrote:

Am I nuts, or did somebody stick the wrong Hallicrafters S-meter in my
SX-28?

My other (restored) SX-28 has the "backwards" meter, meaning that it rests
to the right when the power's off. When you power up, it moves to far left
at no signal, then deflects to the right under signal.

In the SX-28 I'm currently working on, the meter behaves like an ordinary
("non-backwards") meter you'd get at Radio Shack. It rests to the left when
the power's off. When you power up, it moves to the right, then deflects to
the left under signal. Here are a couple of photos.

The first photo shows the set tuned to no signal (RF Gain turned all the way
down), resting around the midpoint.

http://antiqueradio.org/art/temp/SX-28MeterNoSignal.jpg

The second shot shows the set tuned to a strong local signal (RF Gain turned
up), deflecting full left.

http://antiqueradio.org/art/temp/SX-...FullSignal.jpg

I checked the voltages and connections to the meter, which appear OK. The
resistors leading to the meter are also OK. AVC is working well, and the
S-meter adjustment pot is within spec. The radio's about half-recapped at
this stage. I have done the electrolytics, audio, AVC, and IF caps. Still to
come are the RF & various others.

The markings on this meter look different than the ones on my restored
SX-28, but I had been told by other SX-28 owners that both markings were
used.

The radio's usable in this condition, but . . . funky.

If this is the wrong meter, anybody have a working SX-28 meter you'd like to
trade for it? I assume this one comes from some other (possibly earlier)
Hallicrafters set.

Regards,

Phil Nelson
Phil's Old Radios
http://antiqueradio.org/index.html

"Crazy George" wrote in message
...
I suspect someone replaced a failed movement in your original
meter with a standard movement.

Hmm, a light bulb flickers dimly in my brain. That would explain why it
looks stock but works backwards. The case of this meter is split to heck all
around and bound together with friction tape, but I figured that was not
that unusual for such old meters. When I opened the smallest electrolytic
can to restuff it, the danged thing split into about five pieces in my
fingers! But I could believe that somebody pried this case apart with a
screwdriver.

If you can engage a meter repair person, that movement can be made
right resting, and the leads reversed inside, and you will be back to
where you want to be.

Is this something a fumble-fingers like me could attempt? What's involved in
making a movement right resting? I have little to lose at this point . . . .

Check carefully and see if the leads to the meter are reversed on the
back. If they are, then
the second step above is not necessary, just return the wires to their
correct locations. But the mechanical internal
adjustment is still required.

Living dangerously, I reversed the leads on the back of the meter. Now it
behaves the same, but instead of zeroing at the middle (OK, the 7 marker)
and deflecting to dead left (the 1 marker), it zeros at dead left and
deflects off the scale farther left. So I assume further surgery is
indicated.

Thx again for any advice.

Regards,

Phil Nelson

"Crazy George" wrote in message
...
I suspect someone replaced a failed movement in your original
meter with a standard movement.

Hmm, a light bulb flickers dimly in my brain. That would explain why it
looks stock but works backwards. The case of this meter is split to heck all
around and bound together with friction tape, but I figured that was not
that unusual for such old meters. When I opened the smallest electrolytic
can to restuff it, the danged thing split into about five pieces in my
fingers! But I could believe that somebody pried this case apart with a
screwdriver.

If you can engage a meter repair person, that movement can be made
right resting, and the leads reversed inside, and you will be back to
where you want to be.

Is this something a fumble-fingers like me could attempt? What's involved in
making a movement right resting? I have little to lose at this point . . . .

Check carefully and see if the leads to the meter are reversed on the
back. If they are, then
the second step above is not necessary, just return the wires to their
correct locations. But the mechanical internal
adjustment is still required.

Living dangerously, I reversed the leads on the back of the meter. Now it
behaves the same, but instead of zeroing at the middle (OK, the 7 marker)
and deflecting to dead left (the 1 marker), it zeros at dead left and
deflects off the scale farther left. So I assume further surgery is
indicated.

Thx again for any advice.

Regards,

Phil Nelson

Phil Nelson wrote:

Is this something a fumble-fingers like me could attempt? What's involved in
making a movement right resting? I have little to lose at this point . . . .

Assuming you're not serious about "fumble-fingers" - it is likely
"doable" - though it takes a LOT of patience and you will sacrifice some
accuracy (though IIRC the S-meter system in those radios were "relative"
anyway).

First you want to determine what type of meter movement it is -
hair-spring (likely), taut-band, or other (not likely). If it's a hair
spring (spring that spirals in - in a flat plain) and has both a front
and rear adjustment- then it's likely you can successfully "re-zero" it.
The front spring mount usually has a large loop adjuster that is often
engaged by an eccentric pin from the face that allows external zero
adjustments- the rear usually also has an adjustable spring mount - but
far more "dainty" as it's not intended for frequent adjustment - in fact
most are never touched after first calibration when made. It's this back
adjustment that you want to CAREFULLY turn until you zero the meter at
the right. Be very careful to not kink the spring, etc. - most meters
will have enough play to run them fully across using only the back
adjustment - though with some - you may have to use some of the front
adjustment as well. Since the meter will now be "unwinding" the springs
rather than winding it - the meter's linearity will be less than it
should be - but in this application - I doubt anyone would notice. Just
be sure and check for clearance around both springs as they flex as the
needle swings -- as again - the springs will be "un-winding" now rather
than "winding".

Once reversed - you'll have to experiment some to see how it reacts -
whether it appears that the indicated reading is what you would expect -
or if you need to "adjust" the circuitry a bit to better "calibrate" the
system.

HTHs -
--
randy guttery

A Tender Tale - a page dedicated to those Ships and Crews
so vital to the United States Silent Service:
http://tendertale.com

Phil Nelson wrote:

Is this something a fumble-fingers like me could attempt? What's involved in
making a movement right resting? I have little to lose at this point . . . .

Assuming you're not serious about "fumble-fingers" - it is likely
"doable" - though it takes a LOT of patience and you will sacrifice some
accuracy (though IIRC the S-meter system in those radios were "relative"
anyway).

First you want to determine what type of meter movement it is -
hair-spring (likely), taut-band, or other (not likely). If it's a hair
spring (spring that spirals in - in a flat plain) and has both a front
and rear adjustment- then it's likely you can successfully "re-zero" it.
The front spring mount usually has a large loop adjuster that is often
engaged by an eccentric pin from the face that allows external zero
adjustments- the rear usually also has an adjustable spring mount - but
far more "dainty" as it's not intended for frequent adjustment - in fact
most are never touched after first calibration when made. It's this back
adjustment that you want to CAREFULLY turn until you zero the meter at
the right. Be very careful to not kink the spring, etc. - most meters
will have enough play to run them fully across using only the back
adjustment - though with some - you may have to use some of the front
adjustment as well. Since the meter will now be "unwinding" the springs
rather than winding it - the meter's linearity will be less than it
should be - but in this application - I doubt anyone would notice. Just
be sure and check for clearance around both springs as they flex as the
needle swings -- as again - the springs will be "un-winding" now rather
than "winding".

Once reversed - you'll have to experiment some to see how it reacts -
whether it appears that the indicated reading is what you would expect -
or if you need to "adjust" the circuitry a bit to better "calibrate" the
system.

HTHs -
--
randy guttery

A Tender Tale - a page dedicated to those Ships and Crews
so vital to the United States Silent Service:
http://tendertale.com

Phil Nelson wrote:
"Crazy George" wrote in message
...

I suspect someone replaced a failed movement in your original
meter with a standard movement.


Hmm, a light bulb flickers dimly in my brain. That would explain why it
looks stock but works backwards. The case of this meter is split to heck all
around and bound together with friction tape, but I figured that was not
that unusual for such old meters. When I opened the smallest electrolytic
can to restuff it, the danged thing split into about five pieces in my
fingers! But I could believe that somebody pried this case apart with a
screwdriver.

The meter enclosures in some variants of the SX-28 were famous for
cracking. Crap probably got inside the original movement after the case
cracked, and that's why it was replaced.

This problem is common enough that someone is actually producing a kit
to fix it. For more info:

http://bama.sbc.edu/Lloyd%20Godsey's%20Blooming%20Meter%20Fixer.htm





If you can engage a meter repair person, that movement can be made
right resting, and the leads reversed inside, and you will be back to
where you want to be.


Is this something a fumble-fingers like me could attempt? What's involved in
making a movement right resting? I have little to lose at this point . . . .

I'm not sure I would attempt it. I had a friend once that did this on a
replacement movement on a radio he was fixing (an SX-24, IIRC). The fix
involved reversing the little spring on the base of the needle AND
reversing the internal wires. Nerves of steel doesn't even begin to
describe the economy of movement required to do this. This guy was an
orthopedic surgeon, so it was something he did everyday. Mere mortals
such as ourselves shouldn't even try it. I would definitely take it to a
pro, or look for a replacement meter on eBay. They do pop up from time
to time there.




Check carefully and see if the leads to the meter are reversed on the
back. If they are, then
the second step above is not necessary, just return the wires to their
correct locations. But the mechanical internal
adjustment is still required.


Living dangerously, I reversed the leads on the back of the meter. Now it
behaves the same, but instead of zeroing at the middle (OK, the 7 marker)
and deflecting to dead left (the 1 marker), it zeros at dead left and
deflects off the scale farther left. So I assume further surgery is
indicated.

Thx again for any advice.

Regards,

Phil Nelson




--
DO NOT REPLY TO THIS MESSAGE AT THE EMAIL ADDRESS ABOVE!
Instead, go to the following web page to get my real email address:
http://member.newsguy.com/~polezi/scottsaddy.htm
(This has been done because I am sick of SPAMMERS making my email unusable)

Need a schematic? check out the Schematic Bank at:
http://techpreservation.dyndns.org/schematics/

Archive of alt.binaries.pictures.radio binary postings:
http://techpreservation.dyndns.org/abpr/

Phil Nelson wrote:
"Crazy George" wrote in message
...

I suspect someone replaced a failed movement in your original
meter with a standard movement.


Hmm, a light bulb flickers dimly in my brain. That would explain why it
looks stock but works backwards. The case of this meter is split to heck all
around and bound together with friction tape, but I figured that was not
that unusual for such old meters. When I opened the smallest electrolytic
can to restuff it, the danged thing split into about five pieces in my
fingers! But I could believe that somebody pried this case apart with a
screwdriver.

The meter enclosures in some variants of the SX-28 were famous for
cracking. Crap probably got inside the original movement after the case
cracked, and that's why it was replaced.

This problem is common enough that someone is actually producing a kit
to fix it. For more info:

http://bama.sbc.edu/Lloyd%20Godsey's%20Blooming%20Meter%20Fixer.htm





If you can engage a meter repair person, that movement can be made
right resting, and the leads reversed inside, and you will be back to
where you want to be.


Is this something a fumble-fingers like me could attempt? What's involved in
making a movement right resting? I have little to lose at this point . . . .

I'm not sure I would attempt it. I had a friend once that did this on a
replacement movement on a radio he was fixing (an SX-24, IIRC). The fix
involved reversing the little spring on the base of the needle AND
reversing the internal wires. Nerves of steel doesn't even begin to
describe the economy of movement required to do this. This guy was an
orthopedic surgeon, so it was something he did everyday. Mere mortals
such as ourselves shouldn't even try it. I would definitely take it to a
pro, or look for a replacement meter on eBay. They do pop up from time
to time there.




Check carefully and see if the leads to the meter are reversed on the
back. If they are, then
the second step above is not necessary, just return the wires to their
correct locations. But the mechanical internal
adjustment is still required.


Living dangerously, I reversed the leads on the back of the meter. Now it
behaves the same, but instead of zeroing at the middle (OK, the 7 marker)
and deflecting to dead left (the 1 marker), it zeros at dead left and
deflects off the scale farther left. So I assume further surgery is
indicated.

Thx again for any advice.

Regards,

Phil Nelson




--
DO NOT REPLY TO THIS MESSAGE AT THE EMAIL ADDRESS ABOVE!
Instead, go to the following web page to get my real email address:
http://member.newsguy.com/~polezi/scottsaddy.htm
(This has been done because I am sick of SPAMMERS making my email unusable)

Need a schematic? check out the Schematic Bank at:
http://techpreservation.dyndns.org/schematics/

Archive of alt.binaries.pictures.radio binary postings:
http://techpreservation.dyndns.org/abpr/

Paul P wrote:


2) The full scale deflection can be calibrated by feeding the FS current
and adjusting the counter weight.

Uhhh - those counter-weights aren't for that purpose - they are there to
balance the movement regardless of position (vertical - laying down, on
it's side, etc.). They are to be adjusted so that the meter needle
doesn't move (i.e. stays on zero) regardless of the meter's physical
orientation. If you try to "calibrate" the movement with those - the
meter will become very "gravity" sensitive - and loose much accuracy -
depending on "how it sits"...

best regards...
--
randy guttery

A Tender Tale - a page dedicated to those Ships and Crews
so vital to the United States Silent Service:
http://tendertale.com

Paul P wrote:


2) The full scale deflection can be calibrated by feeding the FS current
and adjusting the counter weight.

Uhhh - those counter-weights aren't for that purpose - they are there to
balance the movement regardless of position (vertical - laying down, on
it's side, etc.). They are to be adjusted so that the meter needle
doesn't move (i.e. stays on zero) regardless of the meter's physical
orientation. If you try to "calibrate" the movement with those - the
meter will become very "gravity" sensitive - and loose much accuracy -
depending on "how it sits"...

best regards...
--
randy guttery

A Tender Tale - a page dedicated to those Ships and Crews
so vital to the United States Silent Service:
http://tendertale.com

dy or Sherry Guttery" wrote in message
.. .
Paul P wrote:


2) The full scale deflection can be calibrated by feeding the FS current
and adjusting the counter weight.

Uhhh - those counter-weights aren't for that purpose - they are there to
balance the movement regardless of position (vertical - laying down, on
it's side, etc.). They are to be adjusted so that the meter needle
doesn't move (i.e. stays on zero) regardless of the meter's physical
orientation. If you try to "calibrate" the movement with those - the meter
will become very "gravity" sensitive - and loose much accuracy - depending
on "how it sits"...

best regards...
--
randy guttery


I was hoping someone more knowledgeable would speak up! It did occur to me
that the position of the meter would be affected. It is minimal sensitive
to horizontal (in its back) and vertical operation.

What probably happed to my particular case is the cleaning process moved the
weights and I probably resorted their original position.

Is there any documentation about this topic? Some official book? Admittedly
I have not Googled the subject just yet.

Thanks Randy for the clarification,
Paul Pinyot.

dy or Sherry Guttery" wrote in message
.. .
Paul P wrote:


2) The full scale deflection can be calibrated by feeding the FS current
and adjusting the counter weight.

Uhhh - those counter-weights aren't for that purpose - they are there to
balance the movement regardless of position (vertical - laying down, on
it's side, etc.). They are to be adjusted so that the meter needle
doesn't move (i.e. stays on zero) regardless of the meter's physical
orientation. If you try to "calibrate" the movement with those - the meter
will become very "gravity" sensitive - and loose much accuracy - depending
on "how it sits"...

best regards...
--
randy guttery


I was hoping someone more knowledgeable would speak up! It did occur to me
that the position of the meter would be affected. It is minimal sensitive
to horizontal (in its back) and vertical operation.

What probably happed to my particular case is the cleaning process moved the
weights and I probably resorted their original position.

Is there any documentation about this topic? Some official book? Admittedly
I have not Googled the subject just yet.

Thanks Randy for the clarification,
Paul Pinyot.

Paul P wrote:

I was hoping someone more knowledgeable would speak up! It did occur to me
that the position of the meter would be affected. It is minimal sensitive
to horizontal (in its back) and vertical operation.

What probably happed to my particular case is the cleaning process moved the
weights and I probably resorted their original position.

Is there any documentation about this topic? Some official book? Admittedly
I have not Googled the subject just yet.

Yes - my favorite reference is NavShips EIMB TM&Ps - which in civilian
language is: US Navy's Electronics Installation & Maintenance Books;
Test Methods and Practices - my particular copy was published in
January, 1964- and carries NAVSHIPS 900,000.103. Section 5: Care,
Repair and Calibration of Test Equipment, subsection 5-2d(4) covers dial
pointers, zero adjusters, etc.; and section 5-2d(6) covers balance
weight tests; 5-2e(1a-c) balance weight adjustments (various types of
meter construction); 5-2e(2) Zero Adjustment; 5-2e(3) Pivots; 5-2e(3a)
turning, lapping, etc. of pivots; 5-2e(3b) End-Play Adjustments; 5-2e(4)
care and feeding of the hairsprings; and finally: 5-2(f-k) - calibrating
meter movements of various types - including charging/discharging the
movement's magnet.

The EIMB library consists of several volumes:
900,000.1 Communications
900,000.2 Radar
900,000.3 Sonar
900,000.4 Test Equipment
900,000.5 Radiac
900,000.7 Countermeasures
900,000.100 General
900,000.101 Installation Standards
900,000.102 Electronic Circuits
900,000.103 Test Methods and Practices *
900,000.104 Reference Data *
900,000.105 RF Interference Reduction

The two marked with an asterisk I consider two of most valuable books in
my library - they are of great value to anyone with a more than casual
interest in vintage / tube electronics (IMHO).

best regards...
--
randy guttery

A Tender Tale - a page dedicated to those Ships and Crews
so vital to the United States Silent Service:
http://tendertale.com

Paul P wrote:

I was hoping someone more knowledgeable would speak up! It did occur to me
that the position of the meter would be affected. It is minimal sensitive
to horizontal (in its back) and vertical operation.

What probably happed to my particular case is the cleaning process moved the
weights and I probably resorted their original position.

Is there any documentation about this topic? Some official book? Admittedly
I have not Googled the subject just yet.

Yes - my favorite reference is NavShips EIMB TM&Ps - which in civilian
language is: US Navy's Electronics Installation & Maintenance Books;
Test Methods and Practices - my particular copy was published in
January, 1964- and carries NAVSHIPS 900,000.103. Section 5: Care,
Repair and Calibration of Test Equipment, subsection 5-2d(4) covers dial
pointers, zero adjusters, etc.; and section 5-2d(6) covers balance
weight tests; 5-2e(1a-c) balance weight adjustments (various types of
meter construction); 5-2e(2) Zero Adjustment; 5-2e(3) Pivots; 5-2e(3a)
turning, lapping, etc. of pivots; 5-2e(3b) End-Play Adjustments; 5-2e(4)
care and feeding of the hairsprings; and finally: 5-2(f-k) - calibrating
meter movements of various types - including charging/discharging the
movement's magnet.

The EIMB library consists of several volumes:
900,000.1 Communications
900,000.2 Radar
900,000.3 Sonar
900,000.4 Test Equipment
900,000.5 Radiac
900,000.7 Countermeasures
900,000.100 General
900,000.101 Installation Standards
900,000.102 Electronic Circuits
900,000.103 Test Methods and Practices *
900,000.104 Reference Data *
900,000.105 RF Interference Reduction

The two marked with an asterisk I consider two of most valuable books in
my library - they are of great value to anyone with a more than casual
interest in vintage / tube electronics (IMHO).

best regards...
--
randy guttery

A Tender Tale - a page dedicated to those Ships and Crews
so vital to the United States Silent Service:
http://tendertale.com

Nerves of steel doesn't even begin to describe the economy of movement
required to do this.

Well, that leaves me out!

I would definitely take it to a pro

Any recommendations?

Regards,

Phil Nelson

Nerves of steel doesn't even begin to describe the economy of movement
required to do this.

Well, that leaves me out!

I would definitely take it to a pro

Any recommendations?

Regards,

Phil Nelson

"Phil Nelson" wrote in message
ink.net...
Nerves of steel doesn't even begin to describe the economy of movement
required to do this.

Well, that leaves me out!

I would definitely take it to a pro

Any recommendations?

Regards,

Phil Nelson



Phil

If the replacement meter works properly,
and the modification was done neatly,
why not just leave it alone? If a good meter ever becomes
available, then change it out.

Not many folks would know, or care about the difference.

Pete

"Phil Nelson" wrote in message
ink.net...
Nerves of steel doesn't even begin to describe the economy of movement
required to do this.

Well, that leaves me out!

I would definitely take it to a pro

Any recommendations?

Regards,

Phil Nelson



Phil

If the replacement meter works properly,
and the modification was done neatly,
why not just leave it alone? If a good meter ever becomes
available, then change it out.

Not many folks would know, or care about the difference.

Pete

If the replacement meter works properly,
and the modification was done neatly,
why not just leave it alone? If a good meter ever becomes
available, then change it out.
Not many folks would know, or care about the difference.

I guess the honest answer is . . . that it bugs me. The replacement is
functional. On the other hand, it not only works backward but zeros near the
midpoint rather than all the way to one edge. So it can't be as responsive
on weak signals as if it had the full range of travel.

My plan for this SX-28 is that it'll be my "keeper." It's a one-owner rig
that worked well as found, unabused and unmodified except for this meter.
I'm taking pains with all the work to make sure that it's as squeaky clean
as I can manage. (Everything is easier the second time around!) I even went
so far as to restuff paper caps for a while, until I got impatient and
noticed how hard it would be to cram some of those big paper cases back into
the crannies whence they came, without disturbing lots of other components.

I suppose I could always change meters with my first SX-28 and then keep an
eye out for a replacement or just dispose of that set as-is. The thought of
having two of these beasts open for surgery on the same workbench is a
little daunting, tho' :-)

Regards,

Phil Nelson

If the replacement meter works properly,
and the modification was done neatly,
why not just leave it alone? If a good meter ever becomes
available, then change it out.
Not many folks would know, or care about the difference.

I guess the honest answer is . . . that it bugs me. The replacement is
functional. On the other hand, it not only works backward but zeros near the
midpoint rather than all the way to one edge. So it can't be as responsive
on weak signals as if it had the full range of travel.

My plan for this SX-28 is that it'll be my "keeper." It's a one-owner rig
that worked well as found, unabused and unmodified except for this meter.
I'm taking pains with all the work to make sure that it's as squeaky clean
as I can manage. (Everything is easier the second time around!) I even went
so far as to restuff paper caps for a while, until I got impatient and
noticed how hard it would be to cram some of those big paper cases back into
the crannies whence they came, without disturbing lots of other components.

I suppose I could always change meters with my first SX-28 and then keep an
eye out for a replacement or just dispose of that set as-is. The thought of
having two of these beasts open for surgery on the same workbench is a
little daunting, tho' :-)

Regards,

Phil Nelson

"Phil Nelson" wrote in message
ink.net...
If the replacement meter works properly,
and the modification was done neatly,
why not just leave it alone? If a good meter ever becomes
available, then change it out.
Not many folks would know, or care about the difference.

I guess the honest answer is . . . that it bugs me. The replacement is
functional. On the other hand, it not only works backward but zeros near
the
midpoint rather than all the way to one edge. So it can't be as responsive
plan for this SX-28 is that it'll be my "keeper." It's a one-owner rig
that worked well as found, unabused and unmodified except for this meter.
I'm on weak signals as if it had the full range of travel.


Then it was a hack job and doesn't work right. It would bug me too.

Pete

"Phil Nelson" wrote in message
ink.net...
If the replacement meter works properly,
and the modification was done neatly,
why not just leave it alone? If a good meter ever becomes
available, then change it out.
Not many folks would know, or care about the difference.

I guess the honest answer is . . . that it bugs me. The replacement is
functional. On the other hand, it not only works backward but zeros near
the
midpoint rather than all the way to one edge. So it can't be as responsive
plan for this SX-28 is that it'll be my "keeper." It's a one-owner rig
that worked well as found, unabused and unmodified except for this meter.
I'm on weak signals as if it had the full range of travel.


Then it was a hack job and doesn't work right. It would bug me too.

Pete

Are these manuals "findable" obtainable?

--
Paul Pinyot

"Randy or Sherry Guttery" wrote in message
.. .
Paul P wrote:

I was hoping someone more knowledgeable would speak up! It did occur to
me that the position of the meter would be affected. It is minimal
sensitive to horizontal (in its back) and vertical operation.

What probably happed to my particular case is the cleaning process moved
the weights and I probably resorted their original position.

Is there any documentation about this topic? Some official book?
Admittedly I have not Googled the subject just yet.

Yes - my favorite reference is NavShips EIMB TM&Ps - which in civilian
language is: US Navy's Electronics Installation & Maintenance Books; Test
Methods and Practices - my particular copy was published in January, 1964-
and carries NAVSHIPS 900,000.103. Section 5: Care, Repair and Calibration
of Test Equipment, subsection 5-2d(4) covers dial pointers, zero
adjusters, etc.; and section 5-2d(6) covers balance weight tests;
5-2e(1a-c) balance weight adjustments (various types of meter
construction); 5-2e(2) Zero Adjustment; 5-2e(3) Pivots; 5-2e(3a) turning,
lapping, etc. of pivots; 5-2e(3b) End-Play Adjustments; 5-2e(4) care and
feeding of the hairsprings; and finally: 5-2(f-k) - calibrating meter
movements of various types - including charging/discharging the movement's
magnet.

The EIMB library consists of several volumes:
900,000.1 Communications
900,000.2 Radar
900,000.3 Sonar
900,000.4 Test Equipment
900,000.5 Radiac
900,000.7 Countermeasures
900,000.100 General
900,000.101 Installation Standards
900,000.102 Electronic Circuits
900,000.103 Test Methods and Practices *
900,000.104 Reference Data *
900,000.105 RF Interference Reduction

The two marked with an asterisk I consider two of most valuable books in
my library - they are of great value to anyone with a more than casual
interest in vintage / tube electronics (IMHO).

best regards...
--
randy guttery

A Tender Tale - a page dedicated to those Ships and Crews
so vital to the United States Silent Service:
http://tendertale.com

Are these manuals "findable" obtainable?

--
Paul Pinyot

"Randy or Sherry Guttery" wrote in message
.. .
Paul P wrote:

I was hoping someone more knowledgeable would speak up! It did occur to
me that the position of the meter would be affected. It is minimal
sensitive to horizontal (in its back) and vertical operation.

What probably happed to my particular case is the cleaning process moved
the weights and I probably resorted their original position.

Is there any documentation about this topic? Some official book?
Admittedly I have not Googled the subject just yet.

Yes - my favorite reference is NavShips EIMB TM&Ps - which in civilian
language is: US Navy's Electronics Installation & Maintenance Books; Test
Methods and Practices - my particular copy was published in January, 1964-
and carries NAVSHIPS 900,000.103. Section 5: Care, Repair and Calibration
of Test Equipment, subsection 5-2d(4) covers dial pointers, zero
adjusters, etc.; and section 5-2d(6) covers balance weight tests;
5-2e(1a-c) balance weight adjustments (various types of meter
construction); 5-2e(2) Zero Adjustment; 5-2e(3) Pivots; 5-2e(3a) turning,
lapping, etc. of pivots; 5-2e(3b) End-Play Adjustments; 5-2e(4) care and
feeding of the hairsprings; and finally: 5-2(f-k) - calibrating meter
movements of various types - including charging/discharging the movement's
magnet.

The EIMB library consists of several volumes:
900,000.1 Communications
900,000.2 Radar
900,000.3 Sonar
900,000.4 Test Equipment
900,000.5 Radiac
900,000.7 Countermeasures
900,000.100 General
900,000.101 Installation Standards
900,000.102 Electronic Circuits
900,000.103 Test Methods and Practices *
900,000.104 Reference Data *
900,000.105 RF Interference Reduction

The two marked with an asterisk I consider two of most valuable books in
my library - they are of great value to anyone with a more than casual
interest in vintage / tube electronics (IMHO).

best regards...
--
randy guttery

A Tender Tale - a page dedicated to those Ships and Crews
so vital to the United States Silent Service:
http://tendertale.com

Paul P wrote:

Are these manuals "findable" obtainable?

Yes, I've seen various versions of them on ebay from time to time.
There is a "extract" of a more modern revision he

http://www.phy.davidson.edu/instrumentation/NEETS.htm

Go to Module 21. Module 19 contains extracts of Reference Data...
though the full original is (IMHO) much more useful for those interested
in vintage stuff. These are part of the Navy's NEETS training - an
introductory course into electronics -so unfortunately - they don't go
into much depth. Module 19 does contain much reference data though -
useful to almost everyone - and as they are in PDFs (almost) everyone
can download them for free.

TM&P's "real" Navships number is 0967-000-0130 and Reference Data's
"real" Navships number is 0967-000-0140.


best regards...
--
randy guttery

A Tender Tale - a page dedicated to those Ships and Crews
so vital to the United States Silent Service:
http://tendertale.com

Paul P wrote:

Are these manuals "findable" obtainable?

Yes, I've seen various versions of them on ebay from time to time.
There is a "extract" of a more modern revision he

http://www.phy.davidson.edu/instrumentation/NEETS.htm

Go to Module 21. Module 19 contains extracts of Reference Data...
though the full original is (IMHO) much more useful for those interested
in vintage stuff. These are part of the Navy's NEETS training - an
introductory course into electronics -so unfortunately - they don't go
into much depth. Module 19 does contain much reference data though -
useful to almost everyone - and as they are in PDFs (almost) everyone
can download them for free.

TM&P's "real" Navships number is 0967-000-0130 and Reference Data's
"real" Navships number is 0967-000-0140.


best regards...
--
randy guttery

A Tender Tale - a page dedicated to those Ships and Crews
so vital to the United States Silent Service:
http://tendertale.com

On Wed, 08 Dec 2004 22:04:31 GMT, "Phil Nelson"
wrote:



I suppose I could always change meters with my first SX-28 and then keep an
eye out for a replacement or just dispose of that set as-is. The thought of
having two of these beasts open for surgery on the same workbench is a
little daunting, tho' :-)

Check this out:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...sPageName=WDVW


Not an exact replacement, but pretty close. Only purists would see the
difference.

If you're not a stickler for historical accuracy, this one would
probably work too:


http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...sPageName=WDVW

or this one:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...sPageName=WDVW

or, perhaps you could buy one of these and take the cosmetics from
your old meter and mate them with the new one for a more authentic
look.

Just a thought.....

-Scott

On Wed, 08 Dec 2004 22:04:31 GMT, "Phil Nelson"
wrote:



I suppose I could always change meters with my first SX-28 and then keep an
eye out for a replacement or just dispose of that set as-is. The thought of
having two of these beasts open for surgery on the same workbench is a
little daunting, tho' :-)

Check this out:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...sPageName=WDVW


Not an exact replacement, but pretty close. Only purists would see the
difference.

If you're not a stickler for historical accuracy, this one would
probably work too:


http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...sPageName=WDVW

or this one:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...sPageName=WDVW

or, perhaps you could buy one of these and take the cosmetics from
your old meter and mate them with the new one for a more authentic
look.

Just a thought.....

-Scott

Hey, and the price is right (at least so far :-). Earlier today, I received
mail from Doug M. indicating that an SX-23 meter should also work. So I have
a couple of alternatives to look for.

Thanks!

Phil

Hey, and the price is right (at least so far :-). Earlier today, I received
mail from Doug M. indicating that an SX-23 meter should also work. So I have
a couple of alternatives to look for.

Thanks!

Phil

Phil,
I am catching this thread in the middle, but I think your asking if the
meter can be made to work properly. Apparently the meter has been
modified during somewhere in the process, either by the prior owner or
by your restoration efforts.
My SX-28 S-meter movement is full scale zero (power off resting
position), and screen current of the IF amplifiers drives the meter to
left end of scale (normal zero position). AVC action reduces the screen
current moving the needle upscale.
To make your meter work properly will require dismantling the meter to
be able to adjust the rear spring attachment (like the front spring
attachment that allows you to zero the pointer) so the meter zero is at
full scale, then reinstall the meter and reverse the connections. With
the meter sitting at full scale, the opposite current flow is required
to deflect the needle downward to left end of scale, and AVC action will
allow the meter to deflect toward the resting position (in this case
upscale).
Good luck,
Denis

Phil Nelson wrote:

If the replacement meter works properly,
and the modification was done neatly,
why not just leave it alone? If a good meter ever becomes
available, then change it out.
Not many folks would know, or care about the difference.

I guess the honest answer is . . . that it bugs me. The replacement is
functional. On the other hand, it not only works backward but zeros near the
midpoint rather than all the way to one edge. So it can't be as responsive
on weak signals as if it had the full range of travel.

My plan for this SX-28 is that it'll be my "keeper." It's a one-owner rig
that worked well as found, unabused and unmodified except for this meter.
I'm taking pains with all the work to make sure that it's as squeaky clean
as I can manage. (Everything is easier the second time around!) I even went
so far as to restuff paper caps for a while, until I got impatient and
noticed how hard it would be to cram some of those big paper cases back into
the crannies whence they came, without disturbing lots of other components.

I suppose I could always change meters with my first SX-28 and then keep an
eye out for a replacement or just dispose of that set as-is. The thought of
having two of these beasts open for surgery on the same workbench is a
little daunting, tho' :-)

Regards,

Phil Nelson

Phil,
I am catching this thread in the middle, but I think your asking if the
meter can be made to work properly. Apparently the meter has been
modified during somewhere in the process, either by the prior owner or
by your restoration efforts.
My SX-28 S-meter movement is full scale zero (power off resting
position), and screen current of the IF amplifiers drives the meter to
left end of scale (normal zero position). AVC action reduces the screen
current moving the needle upscale.
To make your meter work properly will require dismantling the meter to
be able to adjust the rear spring attachment (like the front spring
attachment that allows you to zero the pointer) so the meter zero is at
full scale, then reinstall the meter and reverse the connections. With
the meter sitting at full scale, the opposite current flow is required
to deflect the needle downward to left end of scale, and AVC action will
allow the meter to deflect toward the resting position (in this case
upscale).
Good luck,
Denis

Phil Nelson wrote:

If the replacement meter works properly,
and the modification was done neatly,
why not just leave it alone? If a good meter ever becomes
available, then change it out.
Not many folks would know, or care about the difference.

I guess the honest answer is . . . that it bugs me. The replacement is
functional. On the other hand, it not only works backward but zeros near the
midpoint rather than all the way to one edge. So it can't be as responsive
on weak signals as if it had the full range of travel.

My plan for this SX-28 is that it'll be my "keeper." It's a one-owner rig
that worked well as found, unabused and unmodified except for this meter.
I'm taking pains with all the work to make sure that it's as squeaky clean
as I can manage. (Everything is easier the second time around!) I even went
so far as to restuff paper caps for a while, until I got impatient and
noticed how hard it would be to cram some of those big paper cases back into
the crannies whence they came, without disturbing lots of other components.

I suppose I could always change meters with my first SX-28 and then keep an
eye out for a replacement or just dispose of that set as-is. The thought of
having two of these beasts open for surgery on the same workbench is a
little daunting, tho' :-)

Regards,

Phil Nelson

Randy or Sherry Guttery wrote:

Bradlee's Post via The National Enquirer.

Nope - neither one of us wrote this - nice try forging the headers - but
- whomever tried - got several details wrong in the header...

looks like another village idiot attempt at getting attention.
--
rg

Randy or Sherry Guttery wrote:

Bradlee's Post via The National Enquirer.

Nope - neither one of us wrote this - nice try forging the headers - but
- whomever tried - got several details wrong in the header...

looks like another village idiot attempt at getting attention.
--
rg

"Randy or Sherry Guttery" wrote in message
.. .
Randy or Sherry Guttery wrote:

Bradlee's Post via The National Enquirer.

Nope - neither one of us wrote this - nice try forging the headers - but
- whomever tried - got several details wrong in the header...

looks like another village idiot attempt at getting attention.


It's a spammer attack on news.admin.net-abuse.email that your cross posted
replies help.