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N2EY wrote:
In article , (Scott Dorsey) writes: Why do you worry about how others decide to spend THEIR money? Problems? Because it raises price standards for everyone else. That's a side effect of a free market. Would you rather there were price controls? No, in this case it's the result of two different markets that don't really communicate well. Ebay has provided a market for buyers and sellers to get together more conveniently, which is a good thing. But it has also provided a way for people who don't know what they are buying to get into the act. This results in things like current production items selling for higher than list price on Ebay. This is a surprisingly common occurrence, and I have sold a few items like that myself, sadly enough. But when you have folks who don't know what the current value of an item is getting into the act, the value is going to change. And it will change even though the actual supply and demand don't change at all. Inexperienced bidders who don't know what things are worth, and bidding wars between people who desperately have to have an item, tend to raise the overall market value of an item more than it should be. Whoa there!? "More than it should be"? Who gets to say what some piece of old radio gear is worth, other than the buyer and seller? eBay is just a great big worldwide online hamfest that goes on 24/7. Of course it's going to raise prices - just like prices at Dayton, Rochester, Deerfield and Gaithersburg are/were higher (on average) than at some small local hamfest. No, in some cases, eBay reduces prices, when people out there realize how many copies of a "rare" item there really are. In the case of items that really _are_ one of a kind, there is nobody who gets to say what something is worth other than the buyer and the seller. But in the case of a readily available item, especially a current production item, there's a fair market value. The higher prices are bad for buyers, of course, but they're wonderful for sellers. More important, higher prices tend to keep things out of the landfill. I recall when ARC-5s were a few bucks each at most - and also when a lot of them were dumpstered because the owner had gotten tired of carting them to hamfests trying to sell them. This is a good thing for the most part... the ARC-5 example is a weird one, though, because some of those sets are worth a fortune while others still are worth only a few bucks. This means if you're buying one, you really need to know what you are buying so you don't overbid or underbid outrageously. --scott -- "C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis." |
Scott Dorsey wrote: N2EY wrote: In article , (Scott Dorsey) writes: Why do you worry about how others decide to spend THEIR money? Problems? Because it raises price standards for everyone else. That's a side effect of a free market. Would you rather there were price controls? No, in this case it's the result of two different markets that don't really communicate well. Ebay has provided a market for buyers and sellers to get together more conveniently, which is a good thing. Agreed! But because it allows a seller to (potentially) reach a much larger number of buyers, there is upward pressure on prices. OTOH, because buyers have access to more sellers, there is also downward pressure on prices. So far, the upward pressure has outweighed the downward. In other areas the reverse is true. Some years back, a few friends of mine had "rare" Beanie Babies they thought were "worth big bucks". Then came eBay and they discovered how "rare" their collections were(n't). But it has also provided a way for people who don't know what they are buying to get into the act. Isn't that true of *any* market? This results in things like current production items selling for higher than list price on Ebay. This is a surprisingly common occurrence, and I have sold a few items like that myself, sadly enough. But when you have folks who don't know what the current value of an item is getting into the act, the value is going to change. Current production is a completely different situation from stuff that is no longer produced. And it will change even though the actual supply and demand don't change at all. The change is due to an increase of demand. Those who pay $150 on eBay for a new widget that they could buy through a conventional dealer for $100 obviously don't know that the conventional dealers exist. Or if they do know, there is some reason they won't buy from the conventional dealers. It's like the person who will go to a Wawa (local convenience store) and pay more for an item than an Acme (local supermarket) is charging - even though the Acme is across the street and both stores are open! Acme has express lanes so it's not the time factor. Inexperienced bidders who don't know what things are worth, and bidding wars between people who desperately have to have an item, tend to raise the overall market value of an item more than it should be. Whoa there!? "More than it should be"? Who gets to say what some piece of old radio gear is worth, other than the buyer and seller? eBay is just a great big worldwide online hamfest that goes on 24/7. Of course it's going to raise prices - just like prices at Dayton, Rochester, Deerfield and Gaithersburg are/were higher (on average) than at some small local hamfest. No, in some cases, eBay reduces prices, when people out there realize how many copies of a "rare" item there really are. Agreed. The Beanie Babies example shows that. But in the area of old radios and related parts, I'd say that eBay has generally driven prices up. In the case of items that really _are_ one of a kind, there is nobody who gets to say what something is worth other than the buyer and the seller. But in the case of a readily available item, especially a current production item, there's a fair market value. But in general the "madness" is focused on things not in current production, like the $5100 unbuilt Heath AT-1 kit from 1956. Its value is perhaps 1% FMV and 99% rarity. Who determines FMV for a current production item? If it's the manufacturer, how come some car dealers could tack on "ADP" to cars in short supply/high demand? As stated before, current production is a different game than old stuff. The higher prices are bad for buyers, of course, but they're wonderful for sellers. More important, higher prices tend to keep things out of the landfill. I recall when ARC-5s were a few bucks each at most - and also when a lot of them were dumpstered because the owner had gotten tired of carting them to hamfests trying to sell them. This is a good thing for the most part... the ARC-5 example is a weird one, though, because some of those sets are worth a fortune while others still are worth only a few bucks. How much an ARC-5 is "worth" depends entirely on buyer and seller. The situation is complicated by the large number of different models, types, etc., that are nominally called "ARC-5" even though many of them are not. In any event, it's still a matter of classic supply and demand. This means if you're buying one, you really need to know what you are buying so you don't overbid or underbid outrageously. But isn't that true of *any* item not in current production? For example, some years back the 4D32 tube brought very high prices and was considered "rare" to the point that the value of certain BAs was depressed because they used that tube. Then a bunch of NOS surplus 4D32s showed up on the market. Apparently they'd been used in some military system or other and a considerable number had been warehoused for decades until that system was no longer in operation. 4D32 prices dropped quite a bit. Interesting thing about the $645 SB-104A is that it started at $25... -- I think the real difference of eBay is the auction aspect. At a hamfest there's typically some hoss-trading, unless the seller makes it clear that it's "price as marked". Sometimes two or three buyers will compete for a hamfest item, but usually the reality is that the quickest draw with the wallet usually wins. What's so odd, to me, is the inverted nature of the buyer behavior. At a hamfest, you often have to make a snap decision based on only the info you have right now. At most, you may have a few hours to think it over and perhaps haggle. (How many times have you put down an item, walked away, thought it over, came back and it was sold?) But most eBay auctions go on for a week! Plenty of time to check out other sellers, including the conventional ones. Plenty of time to think it over and not be driven by the impulse of the moment. My classic eBay bidding technique is to look long and hard at an item, think it over, and then bid my maximum price - once, by proxy. If I win, fine, if not, then it wasn't meant to be. 73 de Jim, N2EY |
My classic eBay bidding technique is to look long and hard at an item,
think it over, and then bid my maximum price - once, by proxy. If I win, fine, if not, then it wasn't meant to be.=20 Just one comment. Bidding once is a good technique, provided that you = only place your bid 20 seconds from auction end. As a matter of fact bidding hours or, worse, days before auction end = will give others time to place successive bids in small increments, = until they surpass you by just 1$. 73 Tony, I0JX |
On Tue, 4 Jan 2005 23:18:43 UTC, "Antonio I0JX"
wrote: My classic eBay bidding technique is to look long and hard at an item, think it over, and then bid my maximum price - once, by proxy. If I win, fine, if not, then it wasn't meant to be. Just one comment. Bidding once is a good technique, provided that you only place your bid 20 seconds from auction end. As a matter of fact bidding hours or, worse, days before auction end will give others time to place successive bids in small increments, until they surpass you by just 1$. Nope, doesn't work that way. I play it the way Antonio does. I bid my max or there-abouts, right at the beginning. I've seen folk inching up their bids but unless they are willing to go to *my* max, they don't win the item. If they do win it, hey, congratulations. I'll try again next time. Look at the SB-104A that just went on the Bay. The proxy was $1,000. A few bottom feeders inched it up 100, 200, 210, 215, but they dropped out because they didn't want it enough. Finally the serious buyers took it to $645. Sometimes I sorta want an item and set my proxy bid, kinda high, at the beginning. Folk will inch up, others will try the last minute bid but how does anyone know what my proxy is? Bid too high at the last minute and you might find yourself winning the item at a higher price than you would have paid if you had days or weeks to think about it. I *never* pay too much because I have the time to think it through, set my proxy, and walk away. Many times I've been pleased to find that no one has been willing to bid at the last minute. Take a look at http:groups.yahoo.com/group/RadioInvestor There's a picture of a very nice Collins 75S-1 and discussion of the investing in boatanchors. (fixing them up too.) |
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On Wed, 5 Jan 2005 18:01:36 -0500, "Dee Flint"
wrote: Like several others, I generally set my max bid once and only once. If they inch it up and beat me by a dollar, that's a dollar more than I was willing to spend in the first place. Aw come on, sniping is so much fun:-)) Roger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member) (N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair) www.rogerhalstead.com Dee D. Flint, N8UZE |
On Thu, 6 Jan 2005 08:29:10 UTC, Roger
wrote: On Wed, 5 Jan 2005 18:01:36 -0500, "Dee Flint" wrote: Like several others, I generally set my max bid once and only once. If they inch it up and beat me by a dollar, that's a dollar more than I was willing to spend in the first place. Aw come on, sniping is so much fun:-)) Only when going against bidders who don't know the product, prices, or how to use a proxy. What snipers don't realize is the bidders like Dee and myself aren't interested in playing the, "well, if they bid $19.00, I'll look in my coffee can for some change and bid $20.00" We have "our" price. If you want it more than we do, you're welcome to it. -- |
Like several others, I generally set my max bid once and only once. =
If they=20 inch it up and beat me by a dollar, that's a dollar more than I was = willing=20 to spend in the first place. You exactly know what you want, lucky man! Instead, I am always uncertain and, if they beat me by just one dollar, = I would regret not having bid 2 $ more. 73 Tony, I0JX |
"Antonio I0JX" wrote in message ... Like several others, I generally set my max bid once and only once. If they inch it up and beat me by a dollar, that's a dollar more than I was willing to spend in the first place. You exactly know what you want, lucky man! Instead, I am always uncertain and, if they beat me by just one dollar, I would regret not having bid 2 $ more. 73 Tony, I0JX Actually I am a lucky lady. Dee D. Flint, N8UZE |
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