Old Xmtrs, "Ancient Modulation" and Amps
 

I recently acquired a Viking Ranger in nice working condx.

I am interested in using this on AM on 160, 80, and 40 mtrs. The Ranger
runs around 40 watts Am carrier output. I would like to get an amplifier
to use with this xmtr, maybe a vintage amp. What should I be looking
for? I would like to run legal Am Limit on these 3 bands. Should I
forget about Vintage Amps and get a modern Amp? Suggestions please. Any
pitfalls to using a modern Amp?

Thanx

Lazy Senior

Old Xmtrs, "Ancient Modulation" and Amps
 

Lazy Senior wrote:
I recently acquired a Viking Ranger in nice working condx.

I am interested in using this on AM on 160, 80, and 40 mtrs. The Ranger
runs around 40 watts Am carrier output. I would like to get an amplifier
to use with this xmtr, maybe a vintage amp. What should I be looking
for? I would like to run legal Am Limit on these 3 bands. Should I
forget about Vintage Amps and get a modern Amp? Suggestions please. Any
pitfalls to using a modern Amp?

Put the thing on the air as it is and have some fun.

You can add an amp if you want, but give it a try with 40W and see
how you do. I bet you'll be surprised.

There are plenty of decent used linear amps out there if you want to go
that route, but if you think about it in dB, 1000W isn't _that_ much
more than 10W. Only a few S-units at the receiver.
--scott

--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

Old Xmtrs, "Ancient Modulation" and Amps
 

"Lazy Senior" wrote in message
news:Dse9f.3726$zT6.3512@trnddc06...
I recently acquired a Viking Ranger in nice working condx.

I am interested in using this on AM on 160, 80, and 40 mtrs. The Ranger
runs around 40 watts Am carrier output. I would like to get an amplifier
to use with this xmtr, maybe a vintage amp. What should I be looking
for? I would like to run legal Am Limit on these 3 bands. Should I
forget about Vintage Amps and get a modern Amp? Suggestions please. Any
pitfalls to using a modern Amp?

Thanx

Lazy Senior

This is not as easy as it seems. AM peak power is
4 times the carrier. A 100% modulated 40 watt AM
signal is actually producing 160 watts PEP.
The linear amplifier could only be driven to about
25% output on an unmodulated carrier from an AM transmitter,
otherwise it would be severely overdriven on modulation peaks.
If you could drive a linear to 1000 watts, the maximum carrier
power for AM would require the drive to be set for about 250
watts max.

If you want more power you could drive a class C amplifier, and
apply high level modulation directly to it. Trying to "amplify" an
AM signal is very, very inefficient and difficult to set up properly.

Pete

Old Xmtrs, "Ancient Modulation" and Amps
 

Uncle Peter wrote:


This is not as easy as it seems. AM peak power is
4 times the carrier. A 100% modulated 40 watt AM
signal is actually producing 160 watts PEP.

Yes, I know it is not as easy as it seems, that is what I posted the
message looking for suggestions.

I presently use a Viking Valiant putting out 140 Am carrier watts. It
has worked very nicely.

Now also,I have a Viking Ranger, puts out 40 Am carrier watts. I want
more power, especially on 160 mtrs.

Ok it is 1956 when these xmtrs were made. If I had a Ranger then, what
would I buy for an amp?

I realize one problem I may have is 160 mtrs (a band I love) was
restricted in 1956 and many radios, xmtrs, amps didnt have 160 mtrs.

So, I want to run 375 watts Am Legal limit with a Viking Ranger on
160,80,40 mtrs preferably with a Vintage Amp, but will consider modern amps.

What are my options - no homebrew..

thanx

Lazy Senior

Old Xmtrs, "Ancient Modulation" and Amps
 

"Lazy Senior" wrote in message
news:ysf9f.20182$ti.12230@trnddc02...
Uncle Peter wrote:

Ok it is 1956 when these xmtrs were made. If I had a Ranger then, what
would I buy for an amp?


Heathkit KL-1 Chippewa? Although that probably dates a few
years later, and may have been a "match" for the Apache.
The 4-400s could probably withstand the
duty cycle for AM operation. Besides the PEP issues, you have to
make sure the amp and its power supply will withstand AM
continuous carrier operation.

Most hams back then would have used the Ranger as an exciter
for a Class C amplifier deck with it's own high-level AM modulator.
That's the best way to do what you propose.

Old Xmtrs, "Ancient Modulation" and Amps
 

On Sun, 30 Oct 2005 21:46:05 -0500, " Uncle Peter"
wrote:


Most hams back then would have used the Ranger as an exciter
for a Class C amplifier deck with it's own high-level AM modulator.
That's the best way to do what you propose.

100% correct.

Old Xmtrs, "Ancient Modulation" and Amps
 

Lazy Senior wrote:
Uncle Peter wrote:
Ok it is 1956 when these xmtrs were made. If I had a Ranger then, what
would I buy for an amp?


Johnson desk kilowatt, lots of them get driven by Rangers.

Ron

Old Xmtrs, "Ancient Modulation" and Amps
 

There are plenty of decent used linear amps out there if you want to go
that route, but if you think about it in dB, 1000W isn't _that_ much
more than 10W. Only a few S-units at the receiver.
--scott


Uhhhhh yeah it is. 1000w to 10 w is 20db ...

Old Xmtrs, "Ancient Modulation" and Amps
 

In article ,
vt245 wrote:

There are plenty of decent used linear amps out there if you want to go
that route, but if you think about it in dB, 1000W isn't _that_ much
more than 10W. Only a few S-units at the receiver.

Uhhhhh yeah it is. 1000w to 10 w is 20db ...

Right, it's only 20 dB. That is far less than the day to day propagation
variations. Only 3 1/3 S-units. Not much at all.
--scott

--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

Old Xmtrs, "Ancient Modulation" and Amps
 

But..... 20dB can make all the difference in the world in being
heard.... and not being heard.

Scott Dorsey wrote:
In article ,
vt245 wrote:

There are plenty of decent used linear amps out there if you want to go
that route, but if you think about it in dB, 1000W isn't _that_ much
more than 10W. Only a few S-units at the receiver.

Uhhhhh yeah it is. 1000w to 10 w is 20db ...


Right, it's only 20 dB. That is far less than the day to day propagation
variations. Only 3 1/3 S-units. Not much at all.
--scott

Old Xmtrs, "Ancient Modulation" and Amps
 

That's BS! If what you have stated is true, no one would run more than 10
watts. Believe me, 20 dB is _very_ noticeable.

"Scott Dorsey" wrote in message
...
In article ,
vt245 wrote:
Right, it's only 20 dB. That is far less than the day to day propagation
variations. Only 3 1/3 S-units. Not much at all.

Old Xmtrs, "Ancient Modulation" and Amps
 

John N9JG wrote:
That's BS! If what you have stated is true, no one would run more than 10
watts. Believe me, 20 dB is _very_ noticeable.

Sure, it's very noticeable. But, as someone running half a watt CW
these days, I can say that it's not everything.
--scott

--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

Old Xmtrs, "Ancient Modulation" and Amps
 

Scott Dorsey wrote:

There are plenty of decent used linear amps out there if you want to go
that route, but if you think about it in dB, 1000W isn't _that_ much
more than 10W.


What??? 10W - 1000W is 20db. Distance doubles every 6db - do the math...

Only a few S-units at the receiver.

Talking about "S-units" in such a discussion is meaningless *unless* one
has checked the calibration of one's meter - AND states the
calibration characteristics to qualify the readings.

The reason is there is no "universal definition or standard" of "S
units". There have been proposals - but so far no standards. The
proposal that seemed to have had the best chance was made in the 40's -
and that was where S9 = 50uv (at the antenna connector) - and each "S
unit" down being -6db. As noted - that never became a standard - in fact
today most modern receivers seem to be around 5db per S unit The reason
seems to be that using -5db/S results in S0 below 50uv being right
around the noise floor of most rigs - i.e. .2uv (S+N/N=10db).

But unless one states what specific characteristics of "S units" they
are using - talking about "S units" is meaningless (i.e. a "few" "S
units" could be 3db - they could be 18db - or more -- who knows if it's
not stated).


sheeesh...
--
randy guttery

A Tender Tale - a page dedicated to those Ships and Crews
so vital to the United States Silent Service:
http://tendertale.com

Old Xmtrs, "Ancient Modulation" and Amps
 

Agreed , QRP can be very cool.

I am finding similar results with PSK and helshreiber on less than 50 watts
with regular European contacts.

And yes, you can make bunches of CW contacts with a single 6L6.




"Scott Dorsey" wrote in message
...
John N9JG wrote:
That's BS! If what you have stated is true, no one would run more than 10
watts. Believe me, 20 dB is _very_ noticeable.

Sure, it's very noticeable. But, as someone running half a watt CW
these days, I can say that it's not everything.
--scott

--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

Old Xmtrs, "Ancient Modulation" and Amps
 

What??? 10W - 1000W is 20db. Distance doubles every 6db - do the math...

6db is for voltage and current NOT for power .... do the research




"Randy or Sherry Guttery" wrote in message
. ..
Scott Dorsey wrote:

There are plenty of decent used linear amps out there if you want to go
that route, but if you think about it in dB, 1000W isn't _that_ much
more than 10W.


What??? 10W - 1000W is 20db. Distance doubles every 6db - do the math...

Only a few S-units at the receiver.

Talking about "S-units" in such a discussion is meaningless *unless* one
has checked the calibration of one's meter - AND states the calibration
characteristics to qualify the readings.

The reason is there is no "universal definition or standard" of "S units".
There have been proposals - but so far no standards. The proposal that
seemed to have had the best chance was made in the 40's - and that was
where S9 = 50uv (at the antenna connector) - and each "S unit" down
being -6db. As noted - that never became a standard - in fact today most
modern receivers seem to be around 5db per S unit The reason seems to be
that using -5db/S results in S0 below 50uv being right around the noise
floor of most rigs - i.e. .2uv (S+N/N=10db).

But unless one states what specific characteristics of "S units" they are
using - talking about "S units" is meaningless (i.e. a "few" "S units"
could be 3db - they could be 18db - or more -- who knows if it's not
stated).


sheeesh...
--
randy guttery

A Tender Tale - a page dedicated to those Ships and Crews
so vital to the United States Silent Service:
http://tendertale.com

Old Xmtrs, "Ancient Modulation" and Amps
 

Johnson desk kilowatt, lots of them get driven by Rangers.

Ron

To buy an EFJ Desk Kilowatt you need to be prepared to
mortgage your house, wife, and kids or win the lottery...

Old Xmtrs, "Ancient Modulation" and Amps
 

vt245 wrote:
What??? 10W - 1000W is 20db. Distance doubles every 6db - do the math...

6db is for voltage and current NOT for power .... do the research

Ok so I mixed db and dbi, point for you. Now tell me that 1000W is
"almost" indistinguishable at the recieving end from 10W - and S-units
are a valid comparison standard...


Sheeesh.
--
randy guttery

A Tender Tale - a page dedicated to those Ships and Crews
so vital to the United States Silent Service:
http://tendertale.com

Old Xmtrs, "Ancient Modulation" and Amps
 

Randy or Sherry Guttery wrote:

Ok so I mixed db and dbi, point for you. Now tell me that 1000W is
"almost" indistinguishable at the recieving end from 10W - and S-units
are a valid comparison standard...

Well this time my spell checker got me - try again - mixed dB and dBu,

(field strength). that's what i get for shooting fast and from the hip...
--
randy guttery

A Tender Tale - a page dedicated to those Ships and Crews
so vital to the United States Silent Service:
http://tendertale.com

Old Xmtrs, "Ancient Modulation" and Amps
 

Randy or Sherry Guttery wrote:
vt245 wrote:
What??? 10W - 1000W is 20db. Distance doubles every 6db - do the math...

6db is for voltage and current NOT for power .... do the research

Ok so I mixed db and dbi, point for you. Now tell me that 1000W is
"almost" indistinguishable at the recieving end from 10W - and S-units
are a valid comparison standard...

I won't tell you that they are almost indistinguishable. But I will say
that S-units should be a valid comparison standard, at least with military
gear that _is_ calibrated in 6 dB increments.
--scott

--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

Old Xmtrs, "Ancient Modulation" and Amps
 

If you are only satisfied with the VERY best, then follow this link. This
particular rig only runs 500 watts on 160, but that's because that was the
legal 160 meter limit when the transmitter was sold. I am sure it would be
easy to remove the artificial power constraint for 160 meters. Go for it!
http://www.wa3key.com/kw1.html

"Lazy Senior" wrote in message
news:Dse9f.3726$zT6.3512@trnddc06...
I recently acquired a Viking Ranger in nice working condx.

I am interested in using this on AM on 160, 80, and 40 mtrs. The Ranger
runs around 40 watts Am carrier output. I would like to get an amplifier
to use with this xmtr, maybe a vintage amp. What should I be looking for?
I would like to run legal Am Limit on these 3 bands. Should I forget about
Vintage Amps and get a modern Amp? Suggestions please. Any pitfalls to
using a modern Amp?

Thanx

Lazy Senior

Old Xmtrs, "Ancient Modulation" and Amps
 

Scott Dorsey wrote:
Randy or Sherry Guttery wrote:

I won't tell you that they are almost indistinguishable. But I will say
that S-units should be a valid comparison standard, at least with military
gear that _is_ calibrated in 6 dB increments.
--scott

On virtually all of the mil receiver's I'm familiar with (or remember
much about) the signal strength (carrier) meter is marked in dBs (not S
units). I know that some of the "conversion sets" (like the RAOs) had S
meters (though the meter was dropped after S/N200 of the RAO-6; and none
of the RAO-7 had a meter). R-390s, 390As and 391s are all dBs; as were
the 1051s.

Perhaps the newer ones (post 1980) have S-meters?

That's an interesting point - what military receivers --besides
conversion sets -- have "S meters" (i.e. actually marked in S units)?

best regards...
--
randy guttery

A Tender Tale - a page dedicated to those Ships and Crews
so vital to the United States Silent Service:
http://tendertale.com

Old Xmtrs, "Ancient Modulation" and Amps
 

"Scott Dorsey" wrote in message
...
John N9JG wrote:
That's BS! If what you have stated is true, no one would run more than 10
watts. Believe me, 20 dB is _very_ noticeable.

Sure, it's very noticeable. But, as someone running half a watt CW
these days, I can say that it's not everything.
--scott

--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

The problem is a ham linear will not deliver 1000 watts carrier
power on AM. It would have to be rated for 4kW to do so.
PEP on AM is at least 4X carrier.

Pete

Old Xmtrs, "Ancient Modulation" and Amps
 

Hi,

No real pitfall with a modern amp, as long as you get one
rated for continuous duty a.m. operation.
You need tubes with a lot of plate dissipation rating,
since a.m. linear is inefficent, maybe 25% carrier efficiency.
Look for a linear with ceramic tubes, a big blower
and a heavy-duty power supply.

You may need an rf power attenuator between the Ranger
and the linear. Most modern linear amps
produce 1500W peak output with only about 65w peak drive.
Your Ranger will produce 160W pep output in a.m. mode
(at 40W carrier). The linear will be producing 375W carrier,
at legal limit, so it will be almost 10dB more output
than the barefoot Ranger. With no modulation,
the linear's power input will be about 1,500 Watts
(assuming 25% efficiency).
A lot of heat will be dissipted from the linear's plates,
about 1,125 Watts.

A T-network made of 3 each 100W lightbulbs may be an OK
rf attenuator at the linear's input, so you don't overdrive it.

73,
Ed Knobloch






Lazy Senior wrote:
I recently acquired a Viking Ranger in nice working condx.

I am interested in using this on AM on 160, 80, and 40 mtrs. The Ranger
runs around 40 watts Am carrier output. I would like to get an amplifier
to use with this xmtr, maybe a vintage amp. What should I be looking
for? I would like to run legal Am Limit on these 3 bands. Should I
forget about Vintage Amps and get a modern Amp? Suggestions please. Any
pitfalls to using a modern Amp?

Thanx

Lazy Senior

Old Xmtrs, "Ancient Modulation" and Amps
 

Edward Knobloch wrote:
Hi,

No real pitfall with a modern amp, as long as you get one
rated for continuous duty a.m. operation.
You need tubes with a lot of plate dissipation rating,
since a.m. linear is inefficent, maybe 25% carrier efficiency.
Look for a linear with ceramic tubes, a big blower
and a heavy-duty power supply.

You may need an rf power attenuator between the Ranger
and the linear. Most modern linear amps
produce 1500W peak output with only about 65w peak drive.
Your Ranger will produce 160W pep output in a.m. mode
(at 40W carrier). The linear will be producing 375W carrier,
at legal limit, so it will be almost 10dB more output
than the barefoot Ranger. With no modulation,
the linear's power input will be about 1,500 Watts
(assuming 25% efficiency).
A lot of heat will be dissipted from the linear's plates,
about 1,125 Watts.

A T-network made of 3 each 100W lightbulbs may be an OK
rf attenuator at the linear's input, so you don't overdrive it.

73,
Ed Knobloch

Ed
Thanx - this is one of the most usefull replys I have gotten on this
subject.

Lazy Senior

Old Xmtrs, "Ancient Modulation" and Amps
 

Uncle Peter wrote:

The problem is a ham linear will not deliver 1000 watts carrier
power on AM. It would have to be rated for 4kW to do so.
PEP on AM is at least 4X carrier.

Pete

The current power limit for AM is 1500 watts PEP. This
means a carrier output of 375 watts. Easily obtainable
with the proper linear amp.

73, Roger


--
Remove tilde (~) to reply

Remember the USS Liberty (AGTR-5)
http://ussliberty.org/

Old Xmtrs, "Ancient Modulation" and Amps
 

Thanks for pointing this out. Unlike SSB, the legal limit for AM has been
reduced from what it had previously been.

"Roger D Johnson" wrote in message
...
Uncle Peter wrote:

The problem is a ham linear will not deliver 1000 watts carrier
power on AM. It would have to be rated for 4kW to do so.
PEP on AM is at least 4X carrier.

Pete

The current power limit for AM is 1500 watts PEP. This
means a carrier output of 375 watts. Easily obtainable
with the proper linear amp.

73, Roger


--
Remove tilde (~) to reply

Remember the USS Liberty (AGTR-5)
http://ussliberty.org/

Old Xmtrs, "Ancient Modulation" and Amps
 

"Roger D Johnson" wrote in message
...
Uncle Peter wrote:

The problem is a ham linear will not deliver 1000 watts carrier
power on AM. It would have to be rated for 4kW to do so.
PEP on AM is at least 4X carrier.

Pete

The current power limit for AM is 1500 watts PEP. This
means a carrier output of 375 watts. Easily obtainable
with the proper linear amp.

73, Roger




Roger

My point was, forget 10 or 20 dB improvement over a 40 signal.

Pete

Old Xmtrs, "Ancient Modulation" and Amps
 

I'll buy that. But, time and time again when on 40 meters SSB, as an
example, and running 100 watts, when the receiving station tells me that he
is having readability problems with my signal, then when I switch on the
Drake L-4B, the user almost always reports a significant improvement in both
received signal strength and readability. Going from 100 watts to 1000 watts
is 10 dB. Going from 10 watts to 1000 watts would be even more dramatic.

I still regard the statement that a 20 dB increase in signal strength is
"Not much at all" as pure Tier Scheiss.

" Uncle Peter" wrote in message
news:gKy9f.42576$fE5.26532@fed1read06...
[stuff]
My point was, forget 10 or 20 dB improvement over a 40 signal.

Old Xmtrs, "Ancient Modulation" and Amps
 

Randy or Sherry Guttery wrote:
Perhaps the newer ones (post 1980) have S-meters?

That's an interesting point - what military receivers --besides
conversion sets -- have "S meters" (i.e. actually marked in S units)?

best regards...

Why RT-718/FRC-93's, which are also know as KWM2A's do.

-Chuck

Old Xmtrs, "Ancient Modulation" and Amps
 

Chuck Harris wrote:

Randy or Sherry Guttery wrote:
Perhaps the newer ones (post 1980) have S-meters?


That's an interesting point - what military receivers --besides
conversion sets -- have "S meters" (i.e. actually marked in S units)?

best regards...


Why RT-718/FRC-93's, which are also know as KWM2A's do.

Don't those count as "conversions" - i.e. civilian sets "badged" with
military nomenclature?

I'll try asking again... what radios designed by / for the military (as
opposed to rebadged civilian sets) have carrier meters marked in S Units?

David - you've got a ton of mil stuff... what has meters in S units?

best regards...
--
randy guttery

A Tender Tale - a page dedicated to those Ships and Crews
so vital to the United States Silent Service:
http://tendertale.com

Old Xmtrs, "Ancient Modulation" and Amps
 

Randy or Sherry Guttery wrote:
Chuck Harris wrote:

Why RT-718/FRC-93's, which are also know as KWM2A's do.


Don't those count as "conversions" - i.e. civilian sets "badged" with
military nomenclature?

I'll try asking again... what radios designed by / for the military (as
opposed to rebadged civilian sets) have carrier meters marked in S Units?

David - you've got a ton of mil stuff... what has meters in S units?

best regards...

If you are going to couch the question that way, the answer is
none. Military sets have db meters. There are only a handfull
of general purpose receivers that would fit your requirement, and
most of those that you think of as purely military were also sold
to ham and civilian markets... granted, not as the primary market,
though.

The "S"-Meter is a ham invention. The "S1-9" part of the scale was an
attempt to quantize the "S" part of the R-S-T signal reporting system.
Where R is readability on a scale of 1-5, S is signal strength on a
scale of 1-9, and T is tone, on a scale of 1-9.

-Chuck

Old Xmtrs, "Ancient Modulation" and Amps
 

Uncle Peter wrote:

The problem is a ham linear will not deliver 1000 watts carrier
power on AM. It would have to be rated for 4kW to do so.
PEP on AM is at least 4X carrier.

Right. But any linear rated for 5KW carrier will have no problem.
There are some out there.
--scott

--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

Old Xmtrs, "Ancient Modulation" and Amps
 

Chuck Harris wrote:

If you are going to couch the question that way, the answer is
none.

This was in response to the previous discussion of the fact there is no
standards for S unit meters (i.e. there are reports of S Units being
anywhere from 1-6db/S unit - with 6db having been a proposed (but
failed) standard - and 5db/S unit seeming to be common in modern (SSB)
rigs.

Someone mentioned that military gear using "S meters" were calibrated to
6dB/S unit. I'm not familiar (in spite of being married to a boatanchor
collector with a fair number of pieces of gear) with any "native" mil
gear with S meters - which you pretty much confirm above.

Since that individual noted mil gear with calibrated S meters - I was
exploring that question. As I noted - it wouldn't surprise me to learn
that some modern (post 1980) mil gear has S meters...

Hence the "couched" question.

best regards...
--
randy guttery

A Tender Tale - a page dedicated to those Ships and Crews
so vital to the United States Silent Service:
http://tendertale.com

Old Xmtrs, "Ancient Modulation" and Amps
 

Randy or Sherry Guttery wrote:
Chuck Harris wrote:

If you are going to couch the question that way, the answer is
none.

This was in response to the previous discussion of the fact there is no
standards for S unit meters (i.e. there are reports of S Units being
anywhere from 1-6db/S unit - with 6db having been a proposed (but
failed) standard - and 5db/S unit seeming to be common in modern (SSB)
rigs.

This is bad, but I agree.

Someone mentioned that military gear using "S meters" were calibrated to
6dB/S unit. I'm not familiar (in spite of being married to a boatanchor
collector with a fair number of pieces of gear) with any "native" mil
gear with S meters - which you pretty much confirm above.

That was me.

Since that individual noted mil gear with calibrated S meters - I was
exploring that question. As I noted - it wouldn't surprise me to learn
that some modern (post 1980) mil gear has S meters...

For a while (post 1980) they appeared on some of the gear that was intended
for use by relatively untrained operators, but for the most part it wasn't
widespread. Mostly because gear that was intended for skilled users (and
I put the R-390 in that category) may as well use the more accurate dB
metering, and gear that was intended for unskilled users pretty much didn't
have metering at all (like most field radios).

Hence the "couched" question.

There is a 6 dB mil standard for the things, and I'll dig it up because
I have it somewhere in my office. The fact that it doesn't get used much
if at all is quite true, though.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

Old Xmtrs, "Ancient Modulation" and Amps
 

Scott Dorsey wrote:

For a while (post 1980) they appeared on some of the gear that was intended
for use by relatively untrained operators, but for the most part it wasn't
widespread. Mostly because gear that was intended for skilled users (and
I put the R-390 in that category) may as well use the more accurate dB
metering, and gear that was intended for unskilled users pretty much didn't
have metering at all (like most field radios).

I had a feeling there might be a few "latter day" examples of mil
S-meters - but, yes I quite agree - the few BA receivers I'm familiar
with that have meters (390 series, WWR-2, etc.) are dB while the vast
majority of BA receivers don't have any signal strength meter at all
(ARC 5, 348, 654, and so on).

There is a 6 dB mil standard for the things, and I'll dig it up because
I have it somewhere in my office. The fact that it doesn't get used much
if at all is quite true, though.

That's what I'm interested in - I did a quick (very quick) scan through
several of the manuals I have here (Navy Electronics Tech 3 & 2 parts 1
& 2; Basic Electronics; EIMB Reference Data, EIMB Communications
(incomplete); EIMB TM&P)- and while just about every manner of dB is
covered- I didn't spot a single mention of S-Units. I must note,
however - they are from my time in the Navy - which was the 1970s- and
that's why I have allowed that S-units may have come into common use in
the military in sometime since 1980.

best regards...
--
randy guttery

A Tender Tale - a page dedicated to those Ships and Crews
so vital to the United States Silent Service:
http://tendertale.com

WAIT!! Old Xmtrs, "Ancient Modulation" and Amps
 

Now I don't want to get you guys too far off track...but.... wouldn't a guy
better spend his time and money on the antenna??? All of the discussions on
power out and S units etc assume that some reasonable portion of his output
is actually being radiated......:)

Hey Lazy Senior... what is you antenna?


K3PID
Ron H.

WAIT!! Old Xmtrs, "Ancient Modulation" and Amps
 

Ron H wrote:


Hey Lazy Senior... what is you antenna?


K3PID
Ron H.




Ron
Aint nothing wrong with my antennas. I use a 75mtr loop at 60 ft for 75
and 40 mtrs. its fed with open feeders. A 160 mtr L with 24 radials, and
a beam at 50 ft for 20-10 mtrs. I also live on a high hill......

I have a solidstate linear which I use with my modern equiptment. Aint
nothing wrong with higher power. If 40 watts carrier is good, 375 watts
is really good. :

Lazy Senior